Turkish NT coach slams Corbin

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Re: Turkish NT coach slams Corbin 

Post#21 » by Jazzfan12 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:51 pm

Luigi wrote:So does that mean the draft scouting is terrible?

Even after he lost eligibility, he chose to stick around and practice in Kentucky instead of head back to play with the Turkish coaches, right?


No, Kentucky generally gets the top two or three recruits and then become top 5 picks off talent. Cal is great at getting players to buy into his team basketball, but most guys don't really leave with more skill or smarts.

It was probably the right move for him to go to Kentucky, but I'm not sure that framing it as a development focused move is really accurate.
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Re: Turkish NT coach slams Corbin 

Post#22 » by Luigi » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:03 pm

Jazzfan12 wrote:
Luigi wrote:So does that mean the draft scouting is terrible?

Even after he lost eligibility, he chose to stick around and practice in Kentucky instead of head back to play with the Turkish coaches, right?


No, Kentucky generally gets the top two or three recruits and then become top 5 picks off talent. Cal is great at getting players to buy into his team basketball, but most guys don't really leave with more skill or smarts.

It was probably the right move for him to go to Kentucky, but I'm not sure that framing it as a development focused move is really accurate.


Fair enough. But Kentucky's top two or three recruits have to prove things on the court before they go in the top 5. My point is that Kanter chose to sit the bench for Kentucky instead of go back to Turkey to work with their coaches. That's telling.
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Re: Turkish NT coach slams Corbin 

Post#23 » by eru » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:49 am

erudite23 wrote:Listen. Enes Kanter was a 19 year old rookie. This poppy cock of his outside shot not being utilized or him not getting enough PT is dumbfounding. Memhet Okur, who was a proven Euro League player and 23 years old when he came over to the NBA, played 19mpg in his rookie season and despite the fact that his BEST quality as a player was his ability to stretch the floor as a near 7 footer, attempted 1.6, 0.7, and 0.8 3-pointers per game during his first 3 years. He didn't begin to really establish himself as a deadly outside shooter until his 5th season at the age of 27. In the meantime, he was being used as a defender/rebounder, finisher and mid range shooter. It took him time and experience to grow into his skill set.

Huh?


Let's compare him with Okur. Okur was picked by Detroit Pistons at 39th overall in 2001. He spent one season in Turkey. If you check his Turkish league stats, you'd notice that in his last two seasons he averaged only 1.4 3-pointers per game. Rick Carlisle believed in his rookies Prince and Okur. Okur managed to get 19 mpg and 1.6 3 pointers on a team which lost the conference finals to Nets. My point here Carlisle played him and let him take 3s since it's an area where Okur could develop himself. Then came Larry Brown and Rasheed Wallace. Okur was not getting the minutes that he wanted. He did not get along with Larry Brown. That's why his 3pt attempts are reduced significantly. Also mostly he played as a back up for Ben Wallace since Rasheed Wallace took the PF position. I think in his first season with Jazz he was trying to adjust himself to Jazz offense. Actually I believe that Sloan adjusted himself to a center who can shoot 3s. I cannot think of anyone else other than Okur who played as center and had so many 3 pt attempts in Jazz. They started to run the pick and rolls with Deron.

Kanter on the other hand is the 3rd overall pick. Last year Jazz was not expected win the title or conference finals. Also Jazz have many young talented guys that can become a lot better within a year (hayward,kanter,favors..). So I'd expect these talented guys to become better and better every day. Kanter got only 13 mpg. I had the chance to watch him in Turkey when he was younger and I don't see much improvement in his offense. I also noticed that he's hesitant to shoot from outside the paint. I believe most of his points are coming from offensive rebounds. He tries to execute similar type of post up moves. Some of his post up moves are excellent but he needs to add versatility. As far as I am concerned, he needs to increase his mid range attempts, even try occasional 3s (25-30 per season). In the last two years, he could have improved a lot more.
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Re: Turkish NT coach slams Corbin 

Post#24 » by Jefff » Tue Sep 4, 2012 1:41 am

Tanjevic is a good coach, but arguably doesn't know a lot about nba...

anyway i agree: Kanter, in the mid-long term has to expand his game, because has enough talent to do it.
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Re: Turkish NT coach slams Corbin 

Post#25 » by Kayariel » Sun Sep 9, 2012 2:42 pm

tanjevic is totally a bad coach. his prime has passed and no teams give contract to him except turkey for about 8 years. he wasted many opportunities and failed in lots of tournaments with turkish basketball was living it's golden ages playerwise. his rotations are horrible like we saw the previous day. under tanjevic's coaching kanter would not get more than 20 minutes against low caliber rivals. enes made the right decision not to go to turkish national team. if tanjevic were not the coach, things could be different.

anyway this old man is the coach for turkish nt just because of his close relations to the president of basketball operations in turkey. i will not count on any words coming from his tongue because i don't believe he can make the simplest decisions in his life at all.
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Re: Turkish NT coach slams Corbin 

Post#26 » by QuantumMacgyver » Sun Sep 9, 2012 5:34 pm

retiredcoach wrote:
by QuantumMacgyver on Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:26 am
I feel like Kanter lacks the length to score in the post. Nearly all of his points come from his foot work, whereas players like Al easily shoot over tall defenders. I'm not sure how Kanter is going to find points against lengthy defenders. Although he did light up Bynum pretty good. Hopefully P3 helps him find some lift.


Adrian Dantley lacked the length to score in the low post and it got him into the Hall of Fame.

I hope Kanter comes up short like Dantley.


Don't get me wrong, I definitely have faith in Kanter's ability and skill. I just wonder what direction his game is going to go. I going to focus more on jumpshots, more on footwork, a combination of both. I feel like his best comparison would be someone like Marc Gasol.

I'll admit Dantley was a touch before my time, but I always thought he was more of a dribble-drive type of guy. Did he do a lot of his damage in the paint?
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Re: Turkish NT coach slams Corbin 

Post#27 » by Jefff » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:10 am

I watched AD at the end of his career and in some tapes, but he was a master of post and in-the-paint moves
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Re: Turkish NT coach slams Corbin 

Post#28 » by erudite23 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:59 am

eru wrote:
erudite23 wrote:Listen. Enes Kanter was a 19 year old rookie. This poppy cock of his outside shot not being utilized or him not getting enough PT is dumbfounding. Memhet Okur, who was a proven Euro League player and 23 years old when he came over to the NBA, played 19mpg in his rookie season and despite the fact that his BEST quality as a player was his ability to stretch the floor as a near 7 footer, attempted 1.6, 0.7, and 0.8 3-pointers per game during his first 3 years. He didn't begin to really establish himself as a deadly outside shooter until his 5th season at the age of 27. In the meantime, he was being used as a defender/rebounder, finisher and mid range shooter. It took him time and experience to grow into his skill set.

Huh?


Let's compare him with Okur. Okur was picked by Detroit Pistons at 39th overall in 2001. He spent one season in Turkey. If you check his Turkish league stats, you'd notice that in his last two seasons he averaged only 1.4 3-pointers per game. Rick Carlisle believed in his rookies Prince and Okur. Okur managed to get 19 mpg and 1.6 3 pointers on a team which lost the conference finals to Nets. My point here Carlisle played him and let him take 3s since it's an area where Okur could develop himself. Then came Larry Brown and Rasheed Wallace. Okur was not getting the minutes that he wanted. He did not get along with Larry Brown. That's why his 3pt attempts are reduced significantly. Also mostly he played as a back up for Ben Wallace since Rasheed Wallace took the PF position. I think in his first season with Jazz he was trying to adjust himself to Jazz offense. Actually I believe that Sloan adjusted himself to a center who can shoot 3s. I cannot think of anyone else other than Okur who played as center and had so many 3 pt attempts in Jazz. They started to run the pick and rolls with Deron.

Kanter on the other hand is the 3rd overall pick. Last year Jazz was not expected win the title or conference finals. Also Jazz have many young talented guys that can become a lot better within a year (hayward,kanter,favors..). So I'd expect these talented guys to become better and better every day. Kanter got only 13 mpg. I had the chance to watch him in Turkey when he was younger and I don't see much improvement in his offense. I also noticed that he's hesitant to shoot from outside the paint. I believe most of his points are coming from offensive rebounds. He tries to execute similar type of post up moves. Some of his post up moves are excellent but he needs to add versatility. As far as I am concerned, he needs to increase his mid range attempts, even try occasional 3s (25-30 per season). In the last two years, he could have improved a lot more.



You're saying a 19 year old rookie playing on a playoff team behind two star-caliber big men and another emerging star who is one year older than him....should have played more than 13 mpg? How, exactly, do you come to that conclusion?

And by your extremely subjective and abstract measurement, he hasn't improved in the last two years? Could you, possibly...idk...substantiate that? All I know is he played at the level of an average NBA starter last season, in terms of PER, despite having sat out for 2 years. I don't know how you measure that against 2 years ago, playing against high schoolers in the US. Or 3 years ago, playing extremely limited minutes in the Euro League. But whether he improved or not, he was still plenty good last season. And just being in the rotation on a team like the Jazz was a pretty significant accomplishment in my eyes.
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Re: Turkish NT coach slams Corbin 

Post#29 » by eru » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:49 am

erudite23 wrote:
eru wrote:
erudite23 wrote:Listen. Enes Kanter was a 19 year old rookie. This poppy cock of his outside shot not being utilized or him not getting enough PT is dumbfounding. Memhet Okur, who was a proven Euro League player and 23 years old when he came over to the NBA, played 19mpg in his rookie season and despite the fact that his BEST quality as a player was his ability to stretch the floor as a near 7 footer, attempted 1.6, 0.7, and 0.8 3-pointers per game during his first 3 years. He didn't begin to really establish himself as a deadly outside shooter until his 5th season at the age of 27. In the meantime, he was being used as a defender/rebounder, finisher and mid range shooter. It took him time and experience to grow into his skill set.

Huh?


Let's compare him with Okur. Okur was picked by Detroit Pistons at 39th overall in 2001. He spent one season in Turkey. If you check his Turkish league stats, you'd notice that in his last two seasons he averaged only 1.4 3-pointers per game. Rick Carlisle believed in his rookies Prince and Okur. Okur managed to get 19 mpg and 1.6 3 pointers on a team which lost the conference finals to Nets. My point here Carlisle played him and let him take 3s since it's an area where Okur could develop himself. Then came Larry Brown and Rasheed Wallace. Okur was not getting the minutes that he wanted. He did not get along with Larry Brown. That's why his 3pt attempts are reduced significantly. Also mostly he played as a back up for Ben Wallace since Rasheed Wallace took the PF position. I think in his first season with Jazz he was trying to adjust himself to Jazz offense. Actually I believe that Sloan adjusted himself to a center who can shoot 3s. I cannot think of anyone else other than Okur who played as center and had so many 3 pt attempts in Jazz. They started to run the pick and rolls with Deron.

Kanter on the other hand is the 3rd overall pick. Last year Jazz was not expected win the title or conference finals. Also Jazz have many young talented guys that can become a lot better within a year (hayward,kanter,favors..). So I'd expect these talented guys to become better and better every day. Kanter got only 13 mpg. I had the chance to watch him in Turkey when he was younger and I don't see much improvement in his offense. I also noticed that he's hesitant to shoot from outside the paint. I believe most of his points are coming from offensive rebounds. He tries to execute similar type of post up moves. Some of his post up moves are excellent but he needs to add versatility. As far as I am concerned, he needs to increase his mid range attempts, even try occasional 3s (25-30 per season). In the last two years, he could have improved a lot more.



You're saying a 19 year old rookie playing on a playoff team behind two star-caliber big men and another emerging star who is one year older than him....should have played more than 13 mpg? How, exactly, do you come to that conclusion?

And by your extremely subjective and abstract measurement, he hasn't improved in the last two years? Could you, possibly...idk...substantiate that? All I know is he played at the level of an average NBA starter last season, in terms of PER, despite having sat out for 2 years. I don't know how you measure that against 2 years ago, playing against high schoolers in the US. Or 3 years ago, playing extremely limited minutes in the Euro League. But whether he improved or not, he was still plenty good last season. And just being in the rotation on a team like the Jazz was a pretty significant accomplishment in my eyes.



I did not say he hasn't improved. I mentioned that he could have improved a lot more. On his first year at Kentucky, he did not play a single competitive game. In his rookie year, he played 13 mpg in Utah Jazz. http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/minutes/position/rookies Jazz could have done what Denver did for Faried.
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Re: Turkish NT coach slams Corbin 

Post#30 » by jasonic » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:56 am

That reminds me what some people here in Greece were saying the exact same things about Koufos. It 's true that Koufos lost his range and some of his quickness, but he improved his post game and became more stronger. Comparing his game now and his game when he was in Ohio state, it's completely different. Utah shouldn't make the same mistakes that they did with Kosta, and continue to improve Kanter without changing his game style.

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