Making the Case to Start Harden 2012-13

[sonictecture]

The idea of Harden being inserted into the starting lineup is not based on a need to respond to the Lakers being able to spend more money and add Superstar or former superstar players any time they choose, and it's not about attempting to entice Harden to stay with the team by "elevating" him into a starting role, rather Harden should start as part of a natural team evolution. This evolution should be allowed to develop regardless of whether Harden signs an extension by October 31, 2012.

We all know that Harden has been asked to come off the bench as part of an individual and team development program. Durant and Westbrook get all of the offensive touches they want alongside Sefolosha, Ibaka and Perkins and Harden gets a chance to be a first option player off the bench. It's difficult to argue with the results of the individual development as Durant and Westbrook are considered amongst the best players in the league and Harden was sixth man of the year and a rising star. The team won regularly and surpassed expectations by making it to the NBA finals where they lost to the Miami Heat in 5 games. Still to frequent observers the team was overly reliant on isolation offense, which despite the high skill level of Durant, Westbrook and Harden as an offense it's very predictable and relies on all three players to be on their game or a role player to surpass production to win in a playoff series where team defenses are able to key in on tendencies. The Thunder looked like the best team in the league when they had good ball movement and looked like they could be beat by any of the top teams when they didn't.

At a point where the top three offensive players on the team know they can get a shot virtually whenever they want, but enjoy playing together to a degree that they do not play selfishly, now is the time to have all three players play alongside each other. Now is the time to ask this core to sacrifice some individual brilliance for the greater good of team performance. They've learned how to play as individuals, with hints of playing as a team, now is the time to further evolve.

This should be done now, allowing the team to adapt to the new dynamic through a training camp, virtually the only time during the season that new ideas can be adapted through practice. In addition to strengthening the starting lineup, the team can also further develop the bench, once again strengthening the team in a sustainable way with the development of recently drafted players.

With the return of Eric Maynor, projected to be healthy, after suffering an ACL tear in his knee last year, the Thunder have a steadying influence off the bench easing the transition from the role that Harden played. Maynor alongside veterans Collison and Sefolosha would also allow young players like Reggie Jackson and Perry Jones to develop in a relatively pressure free environment. Developing Jackson as a scorer off the bench would allow him to partially fill Harden's previous role as a scorer and secondary facilitator, a much better fit for his current skill set than back up point guard. This is a critical development in the even that Harden is not with the team beyond this upcoming season. Jones can be given playing time gradually and with his athleticism and skill set could start to play a part in a small ball rotation that would make the Thunder even more dangerous than past seasons.

The development of young players like Jackson and Jones is a key component to ensuring the Thunder remain competitive for championships regardless of what happens with Harden.

Thoughts?

[bbms]

Should be playing Jeff Green minutes, so... Must start.

[Envelopes]

Harden should increase his minutes, but when Russ and Kev are on the bench you want Harden on the court.

[BirdmanPresents]

Other than the idea of having Harden on the floor when Russ and KD are off I also like the idea of having a very good defender like Sefolosha starting the game to set the tone defensively. Not that Harden is a bad defender but Thabo is better.

[sonictecture]

An advantage of starting Harden is that the rigidity of the lineup is dissolved. Brooks would be free to extend minutes to of the hot hand or substitute as desired to take advantage of match ups. It allows any one of the three to play with the rest of the second unit to the advantage of the team. It takes the predictability away and forces Brooks to get better in reading game situations, which will pay dividends in the playoffs where adjustments make a real difference.

I myself have made an argument in the pastfor starting Sefolosha for defensive purposes, but it has become more difficult to stay with that argument. Harden has improved and need for what Sefolosha brings has diminished. Sefolosha is a specialist, so why not play him as one off the bench?

This team is constructed around the core and as nice as it is to have quality role players, I think it's a mistake to put too much of the team success in their hands, especially since we know that with continued success their salary demands are likely to rise beyond the teams capacity to keep them. I also think it's possible that Westbrook, Harden and Durant use Sefolosha like a crutch defensively. Take the crutch away and force the core to improve defensively, all of them have the potential to be better defenders. This team will win or lose by the performance of the core players, I think it's time to give them that role.

[wiff]

He can really throw a yacht party!

[Bravenewworld]

Im not sure how much starting means to Harden. Its a label, fact is he can be a bench player and still get starter minutes and production which is what it really comes down to.
They need to get a sense of what Harden really wants, if he really feels the need to start..... Keep Thabo, draft a SG and trade Harden for a big.

[sonictecture]

As I mentioned in the first paragraph of the original post in this thread, starting Harden wouldn't be about trying to make Harden happy or to appease him in anyway. It's not about Harden as much as it is about the team.

Starting Harden makes it possible or at least easier to get him more playing time, which means you have your best players on the floor longer, which should give you a better chance to win. This is simple math. Harden can get low level starter minutes coming off the bench, but he doesn't play the same minutes as Durant and Westbrook and he never will coming off the bench unless Sefolosha only plays 8 minutes a game and if that is the case what is the point?

[Bravenewworld]

As I mentioned in the first paragraph of the original post in this thread, starting Harden wouldn't be about trying to make Harden happy or to appease him in anyway. It's not about Harden as much as it is about the team.

Appeasing Harden is part of the equation, if its not then this is not a serious question and utterly pointless to have a conversation about.

[CKRT]

Should be playing Jeff Green minutes, so... Must start.

this...Harden is arguably our highest impact player on offense, and the fact that he only gets 32 minutes a game is asinine.

[sonictecture]

As I mentioned in the first paragraph of the original post in this thread, starting Harden wouldn't be about trying to make Harden happy or to appease him in anyway. It's not about Harden as much as it is about the team.

Appeasing Harden is part of the equation, if its not then this is not a serious question and utterly pointless to have a conversation about.

Perhaps I failed to explain my points clearly enough in the original post.

I'm not suggesting paying Harden less than his worth on the open market and I don't think offering Harden a spot in the starting lineup would be the bait to convince him to take less. Harden is going to sign his extension or he isn't. Putting Harden into the starting lineup improves the team in either scenario.

1.Extend Harden and starting him puts more talent on the court for longer periods of time, it forces all of the starters to continue to evolve beyond isolation ball, beyond taking breaks on defense and beyond individual achievements.

2.Harden doesn't sign an extension and starting him eliminates the dependence of his role off the bench last year and allows for bigger roles for Maynor, Jackson and Jones. It allows for the development of players that have the potential to keep the sustainable winner without Harden.

Keeping Harden in the same role as last season, stops progression, ignores the return of Maynor, sends Jackson out of the rotation and holds the team hostage if he doesn't extend.

[OMG Whateva ETC]

Im not sure how much starting means to Harden. Its a label, fact is he can be a bench player and still get starter minutes and production which is what it really comes down to.
They need to get a sense of what Harden really wants, if he really feels the need to start..... Keep Thabo, draft a SG and trade Harden for a big.

There you go. Harden isn't worth the max on this team. For other teams he would be a max player, perennial all-star. But on this team his best fit is as a backup, and you don't pay backups the max. With Durant locked in at the 3 and Westbrook locked in at 1 Thabo or someone like him (defense 1st, doesn't need the ball) is the perfect 2. If Harden wants to take a Ginobili discount salary wise and accept a Ginobili 6th man role then keep him great, that's where he fits best on this team. But if he wants the max and a bigger role then Atlanta, Dallas and Phoenix are better fits for him.

It's time to trade him for a young big with potential and put off extending contracts for a year or 2. I say it's time for this.

Trade:
Harden
Perkins
Cook
Collison
L Hayward

for
Derrick Favors
Paul Milsap
Raja Bell
Gordon Hayward

That leaves a more balanced lineup like this:

Westbrook / Maynor /Jackson
Sefolosha / Hayward / Bell
Durant / Jones III / Thompson
Ibaka / Milsap / Orton
Favors / Ibaka / Aldrich / Thabeet


The combo of Ibaka, Milsap and Favors should get about 30 minutes each in different combos at the 4/5. Favors and Ibaka should improve production with those kind of minutes. Milsap will have to be resigned next summer at about 9 million per for probably 4 years which is better than overpaying Perkins 8+ million per for the next 3 years. Favors is poised to breakout this year or next he'll eventually command the max or maybe even a Al Horford type extension at 12 million per. But that will be better than overpaying Harden the max, Favors will be a better fit. Gordon Hayward will take over Hardens minutes and might possibly start and can bacup KD at the 3, he's a much better defender than Harden, he'll never be the scorer or creator that Harden is but he's a better all around player and a better fit. Have a better more balanced team and put off salary cap/luxury tax problems for the future.

Harden may be a fan favorite but it's time to sell high if he thinks he's a max player on this team. Waiting for a S&T next summer will only get Marcin Gotat and overpaid filler in return.

[CKRT]

Harden pretty much guarantees a top 5 offense. if we're going to suck at defense worse than with Green/Nenad, we might as well be a good offensive team.

[sonictecture]

There you go. Harden isn't worth the max on this team. For other teams he would be a max player, perennial all-star. But on this team his best fit is as a backup, and you don't pay backups the max.

When Harden was drafted and the general consensus was that Presti passed up more talented players to draft Harden, people that watched Harden play were quick to notice how his skill set and demeanor were about as perfect a fit as you could ask for along side Durant and Westbrook. You had three players in their early twenties that were being developed as individuals within a team concept. One of the aspects of this development was asking Harden to come off the bench. Harden agreed and the coaching staff rewarded his development by making him a number one option off the bench and letting him run the offense.

My argument is the development is not a stagnate process and the time is right to start Harden, because it's what is best for the team long term. The side benefit is that it takes away the silly argument that you don't pay back up players the max. You usually don't play back ups more than starters but Harden already makes more than Sefolosha, so that semantic argument is pointless.

With Durant locked in at the 3 and Westbrook locked in at 1 Thabo or someone like him (defense 1st, doesn't need the ball) is the perfect 2. If Harden wants to take a Ginobili discount salary wise and accept a Ginobili 6th man role then keep him great, that's where he fits best on this team. But if he wants the max and a bigger role then Atlanta, Dallas and Phoenix are better fits for him.

Why is it that Miami can play with three primary offensive players in the starting line up in James, Wade and Bosh and the Lakers can play with four in Nash, Bryant, Gasol and Howard, but the Thunder can only have two offensive players and a bunch of role players nearly incapable of scoring? That's nonsense.

Harden isn't some chucker who can't play alongside other talented starters, he is a player that makes thosse around him better. The Thunder have used him off the bench because there he is a weapon that teams can't match up with. If you look at statistics our starters hold about even with other teams and Harden comes in and creates separation. Start Harden and the separation will come from the starters. It's up to the coaching staff and players to keep on developing.

Harden pretty much guarantees a top 5 offense. if we're going to suck at defense worse than with Green/Nenad, we might as well be a good offensive team.

What does Ibaka guarantee? At 12.5M I hope it's more than what we've seen so far.

[Bandwagon1]

Hey how much can OKC offer Harden without paying the tax? Dont really pay attention to the numbers.

[wiff]

Hey how much can OKC offer Harden without paying the tax? Dont really pay attention to the numbers.

I don't think they will be able to.

[Balkman32]

If they re-sign Harden they will have to pay a tax. It's just a matter of how much they are willing to pay.

[slick_watts]

Of course Harden should start. The reasoning is that you want your best lineups to see the court as much as possible. All of OKC's best lineups have James Harden in them, and we don't see them as often since he is coming off the bench.

As for Harden being worth the max to the Thunder, of course he is. In lineups not featuring Harden last season (especially in the playoffs) the Thunder were a middling team offensively, and downright Charlotte Bobcats level of bad in the playoffs. Lineups with Harden in there (especially with Westbrook and Durant) were the best offense in the NBA. Saying you need to 'trade Harden for a big' is easier said than done, and will likely carry with it a downgrade in talent. That's not what the team needs. Defensive role players (should be) easy to find. Harden, Westbrook and Durant assure you of a Top 3 offense every year. You need to keep that together.