Around the NBA II

[whocurrz]

I'd probably take Blake over everyone not named Dwight Howard or Anthony Davis. Especially on our team. We'd be a serious contender if we upgraded from Lee to Blake.

Agreed. I'd consider Love as he can stretch the floor, rebound at a ridiculous rate and is a great outlet passer. I think Blake has more defensive potential than him though and Blake is a very good ball-handler for his size. His ability to draw double teams and pass out of them would be very good on a squad with shooters like Curry, Rush, Barnes and Klay to pass to.

[EvanZ]

Could you imagine?

Curry
Klay
Barnes
Blake
Bogut

Killer B's man. That lineup could be hot. Anyway, I'm dreaming.

[hellla]

I'd probably take Blake over everyone not named Dwight Howard or Anthony Davis. Especially on our team. We'd be a serious contender if we upgraded from Lee to Blake.

Agreed. I'd consider Love as he can stretch the floor, rebound at a ridiculous rate and is a great outlet passer. I think Blake has more defensive potential than him though and Blake is a very good ball-handler for his size. His ability to draw double teams and pass out of them would be very good on a squad with shooters like Curry, Rush, Barnes and Klay to pass to.

Since when could Blake pass out of the double team? I recall that being one of his weaknesses..

[whocurrz]

I'd probably take Blake over everyone not named Dwight Howard or Anthony Davis. Especially on our team. We'd be a serious contender if we upgraded from Lee to Blake.

Agreed. I'd consider Love as he can stretch the floor, rebound at a ridiculous rate and is a great outlet passer. I think Blake has more defensive potential than him though and Blake is a very good ball-handler for his size. His ability to draw double teams and pass out of them would be very good on a squad with shooters like Curry, Rush, Barnes and Klay to pass to.

Since when could Blake pass out of the double team? I recall that being one of his weaknesses..

Wasn't as evident last year, but his rookie year when they ran the offense through him, he had a triple double and multiple games where he was very close. He's not flawless at it yet, but he's not a black hole at all once he gets the ball. Vision could use some work but I think he's pretty good in this regard for such a young player from what I've seen. I live in LA and watch a good amount of Clipper games btw.

Here's an article on his passing after his first few months in the NBA
http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/blake-griffin-playmaker-extraordinaire/

[Jester_]

Blake is great, but best big man is a big stretch. I'd take Howard, Anthony Davis... probably Love and possibly Bynum over him. Obviously a huge upgrade on Lee though, no arguments there (although Lee and Blake usually go blow for blow in head to head matchups... bodes well for us in possible playoff scenarios).

[FNQ]

Top 5 PF... but theres at least about 7-8 bigs overall I'd take ahead of Blake:

Dirk, Dwight, Smoove, ADavis, Duncan, KG, MGasol, Aldridge, PGasol.. as a longterm option though I'd probably only take ADavis, Dwight, Smoove, MGasol, and Aldridge over him.

[and1GS]

I'd probably take Blake over everyone not named Dwight Howard or Anthony Davis. Especially on our team. We'd be a serious contender if we upgraded from Lee to Blake.

The Clippers have Chris Paul and aren't a serious contender with Blake, why would we be? Upgrade over Lee, but let's not act like Blake is one of the NBA's greatest.

[whocurrz]

I'd probably take Blake over everyone not named Dwight Howard or Anthony Davis. Especially on our team. We'd be a serious contender if we upgraded from Lee to Blake.

The Clippers have Chris Paul and aren't a serious contender with Blake, why would we be? Upgrade over Lee, but let's not act like Blake is one of the NBA's greatest.

Because rosters are more than 2 players? We have a much better C, better outside shooting and Blake would solve our biggest weakness of someone who can get into the lane and draw fouls (although he wouldn't make many of the FTs). Maybe we wouldn't be serious contenders this year, but a core of Blake/Curry/Klay/Barnes with Bogut . That's like an 8 year window of contention without lots of injuries.

And the LAC team was definitely contenders, they just ran into a Spurs team that was well-rested and rolling after they just sustained injuries to their 2 best players in a hard fought series against the Grizz. Oh yeah and Billups wasn't there and Caron Butler was just coming off injury (surprise surprise).

[FNQ]

Wager time.. If David Lee doesnt post at least a +1.5 RAPM next to Bogut, then Aaron Rodgers will take a picture in a Niners jersey.. Takers?

[EvanZ]

I'd probably take Blake over everyone not named Dwight Howard or Anthony Davis. Especially on our team. We'd be a serious contender if we upgraded from Lee to Blake.

The Clippers have Chris Paul and aren't a serious contender with Blake, why would we be? Upgrade over Lee, but let's not act like Blake is one of the NBA's greatest.

I think Bogut is better than DJ. I also think Klay has way more upside than Chauncey at this point.

But when I say "contender", I don't think we could beat the Lakers or Thunder. But we could get past Denver for sure.

[EvanZ]

Wager time.. If David Lee doesnt post at least a +1.5 RAPM next to Bogut, then Aaron Rodgers will take a picture in a Niners jersey.. Takers?

If David Lee posts a 1.5 RAPM then something went seriously right with this team.

[BROWN]

Wager time.. If David Lee doesnt post at least a +1.5 RAPM next to Bogut, then Aaron Rodgers will take a picture in a Niners jersey.. Takers?

I'll put a wager that all our starters improve. I don't think it takes a genius to figure with a real big, and a balanced roster, everyone will benefit.

Whoever thinks Lee isn't a good player, or is a below average player are flat out insane.

[Jester_]

I also think Klay has way more upside than Chauncey at this point.

I would be rather concerned if he didn't.

[EvanZ]

Wager time.. If David Lee doesnt post at least a +1.5 RAPM next to Bogut, then Aaron Rodgers will take a picture in a Niners jersey.. Takers?

I'll put a wager that all our starters improve. I don't think it takes a genius to figure with a real big, and a balanced roster, everyone will benefit.

Whoever thinks Lee isn't a good player, or is a below average player are flat out insane.

Does average = good?

[and1GS]

I'd probably take Blake over everyone not named Dwight Howard or Anthony Davis. Especially on our team. We'd be a serious contender if we upgraded from Lee to Blake.

The Clippers have Chris Paul and aren't a serious contender with Blake, why would we be? Upgrade over Lee, but let's not act like Blake is one of the NBA's greatest.

I think Bogut is better than DJ. I also think Klay has way more upside than Chauncey at this point.

But when I say "contender", I don't think we could beat the Lakers or Thunder. But we could get past Denver for sure.

That makes sense.

My overarching point is that the Clippers aren't contending for a championship any time soon.

[oaktownwarriors87]

Wager time.. If David Lee doesnt post at least a +1.5 RAPM next to Bogut, then Aaron Rodgers will take a picture in a Niners jersey.. Takers?

I'll put a wager that all our starters improve. I don't think it takes a genius to figure with a real big, and a balanced roster, everyone will benefit.

Whoever thinks Lee isn't a good player, or is a below average player are flat out insane.

Does average = good?

An average PF in the NBA is JJ Hickson, Glen Davis, Udonis Haslem, and Ed Davis. Davis Lee is much better than average. Just because RAPM says something dosen't mean it's true. My own personal rating system, which is much more accurate, says he's a $10,462,798.45 dollar player, 11th amongst PFs, and 44th in the NBA. I don't think that's 100% accurate, but there is more than one way to evaluate a player.

He's a slightly above average starting PF, which is really good. PFs of his caliber are hard to find. That's why he's the best PF the team has had in almost 20 years.

[giberish]

An average PF in the NBA is JJ Hickson, Glen Davis, Udonis Haslem, and Ed Davis. Davis Lee is much better than average. Just because RAPM says something dosen't mean it's true. My own personal rating system, which is much more accurate, says he's a $10,462,798.45 dollar player, 11th amongst PFs, and 44th in the NBA. I don't think that's 100% accurate, but there is more than one way to evaluate a player.

He's a slightly above average starting PF, which is really good. PFs of his caliber are hard to find. That's why he's the best PF the team has had in almost 20 years.

Hickson, BB Davis and Ed Davis are average NBA PF's?? Maybe average 3rd string PF's but not guys a competing team even wants in it's rotation. Haslem's a better but fading with age.

If you care about defense and offense Lee is a somewhat below-average starting PF. Any box-score weighting stat will largely ignore defense and overrate Lee. Weighted by minutes he gives about average performance from the PF spot. If you weigh 3rd string bench-warmers equally with 35 mpg starters than he's well above-average but that's an awfully low standard for a guy making $14M/yr.

[oaktownwarriors87]

An average PF in the NBA is JJ Hickson, Glen Davis, Udonis Haslem, and Ed Davis. Davis Lee is much better than average. Just because RAPM says something dosen't mean it's true. My own personal rating system, which is much more accurate, says he's a $10,462,798.45 dollar player, 11th amongst PFs, and 44th in the NBA. I don't think that's 100% accurate, but there is more than one way to evaluate a player.

He's a slightly above average starting PF, which is really good. PFs of his caliber are hard to find. That's why he's the best PF the team has had in almost 20 years.

Hickson, BB Davis and Ed Davis are average NBA PF's?? Maybe average 3rd string PF's but not guys a competing team even wants in it's rotation. Haslem's a better but fading with age.

If you care about defense and offense Lee is a somewhat below-average starting PF. Any box-score weighting stat will largely ignore defense and overrate Lee. Weighted by minutes he gives about average performance from the PF spot. If you weigh 3rd string bench-warmers equally with 35 mpg starters than he's well above-average but that's an awfully low standard for a guy making $14M/yr.

If David Lee is called an average player than I will compare him to other players at his position. If he is called an average starter than I will compare him to other starters at his postion.

Whoever thinks Lee isn't a good player, or is a below average player are flat out insane.

Does average = good?

There are about 100 PF's in the NBA. I would put JJ Hickson, Glen Davis, Udonis Haslem, and Ed Davis in the middle of the pack. I rank Lee around 8-15. 8-15/100 is good and well above average.

Also, the way the NBA is currently constructed PF is an extremely important offensive position. A scoring big man is a must. That's why you see guys like Dirk Nowitzki playing next to Tyson Chandler. There are very few who can play at elite levels on both ends, and I wont hold my breath when it comes to getting one.

[EvanZ]

I was thinking average for a starting PF, so you can quote me on that.

[oaktownwarriors87]

I was thinking average for a starting PF, so you can quote me on that.

Ok.

One thought. Average is around 15th. Lets say that out of the next 200 PFs drafted into the NBA 100 of them will wash out pretty quickly. Out of the next 100 approximately 15 or so will be as good or better than David lee. That means the Warriors have a 7.5% chance at getting a player better or as good as Lee once they are developed. So if the Warriors use 2 picks a year for the next 6-7 years they should get someone equal to or greater than Lee.

There was almost a 20 year gap between Lee and Webber, so that's a pretty favorable estimate considering team history.


I only say that because I don't see anyone willing to part with there more talented PF. Right now Lee is the best we can do, people should be happy with it. Average staring PF=Awesome.