Who is the greatest fantasy basketball player ever?

giordunk · Post #1 » by **giordunk** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:16 pm

Fantasy as in fantasy basketball.

I'd have to say Kevin Garnett... 04 Garnett put up 24-14-5 with 2.2 blocks and 1.5 steals. Also shot close to 80% from the line and 50% from the field. Pretty much helped every category except 3s.

Dr Positivity · Post #2 » by **Dr Positivity** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:26 pm

94 Robinson - 29.8 pts, 10.7 rebs, 4.8 asts, 1.7 stls, 3.3 blks, 3.2 TOVs, 50.7% FG and 11.6 FTAs a game at 74.9%, sounds like it could compete with KG

C-izMe · Post #3 » by **C-izMe** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:45 pm

Larry Bird/Magic Johnson have a case (if your talking career).

Bird was usually good for 25-30 ppg, 10 rpg, and 6-7 apg while getting a few steals, blocks, and about 90-100 3s. High percentages and low TOs make him valuable too.

Magic was good for 20/6/12 with super high percentages and even threes late in his career.

Dr Positivity · Post #4 » by **Dr Positivity** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:53 pm

I forgot 89 Jordan had such a perfect fantasy season

32.5ppg, 8.0 reb, 8.0 ast, 2.9 stls, 0.8 blks, 3.6 TOV, 53.8%, 9.8 FTAs on 85%

Post #5 » by **penbeast0** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:11 am

Wilt since fantasy basketball doesn't apply intangibles or, for that matter, usually it doesn't adjust for pace effects either.

Or, ME . . . I am awesome in my fantasies!

thizznation · Post #6 » by **thizznation** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:24 am

I just started playing fantasy basketball last season, but some of my bud's said shawn marion and AK47 used to be fantasy gods back in their hayday.

kasino · Post #7 » by **kasino** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:27 am

penbeast0 wrote: Or, ME . . . I am awesome in my fantasies!

-Kees- · Post #8 » by **-Kees-** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:57 am

Any star in 61/62:

Wilt: 50/25/2
Oscar: 31/13/11
Russell: 19/24/5
West: 31/8/5

lorak · Post #9 » by **lorak** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:37 am

penbeast0 wrote:Wilt since fantasy basketball doesn't apply intangibles or, for that matter, usually it doesn't adjust for pace effects either.

Or, ME . . . I am awesome in my fantasies!

Wilt is bad choice because he kills FT% category and probably TOVs category. Of course I'm talking about roto.

hironimus · Post #10 » by **hironimus** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:05 am

wasnt shaq a monster in the Lakers years? anyway, bird

Dipper 13 · Post #11 » by **Dipper 13** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:10 pm

probably TOVs category

Repeating fiction over and over again does not make it true.

Based on some of the game footage I have seen:

1967 Playoffs vs Celtics (2nd half only)

24 Halfcourt Touches for Wilt
4 assists for Wilt
1 turnover for Wilt
56 offensive possessions for team

By all accounts this (Gm. 4) was a very lethargic & inefficient game played by the Sixers compared to their usual standard. Even if we assume that they played their worst game for every single night of the season, the above stats suggest that Wilt averaged roughly 8 assists per game that year (which is true), & only 2 turnovers. An average of 8 assists & only 2 turnovers is excellent for a big man.

In viewing the game footage of the 1964 Warriors Celtics NBA Finals matchup (Gm. 4), we can see a few statistics below.

-16 Halfcourt Touches for Wilt

-1 assist for Wilt

-1* turnover for Wilt (which came from what was clearly an incorrect traveling call, even by the textbook 60's standards)

-52 offensive possessions for team

Keep in mind this is against the '64 Celtics, perhaps the top defensive team ever, from KC Jones on down to their MVP Big Bill Russell. They featured aggressive full court pressing and swarmed Wilt in the half court denying him the ball.

Post #12 » by **penbeast0** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:29 pm

Dipper, it could be true without being true . . . presumably whatever fantasy game you play has to put some number in for Wilt and turnovers and they may rate him as turnover prone even if he wasn't.

My favorite fantasy basketball site is whatifsports.com but they consistently rate Bill Russell as a 70 (while guys like Julius Erving consistently get 100) and have him as an average shotblocking center which I think is pretty unreasonable based on . . . well, everything anyone knows about that period. Still a cool game but it's a problem.

lorak · Post #13 » by **lorak** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:00 pm

Dipper 13 wrote:
probably TOVs category

Repeating fiction over and over again does not make it true.

Based on some of the game footage I have seen:

1967 Playoffs vs Celtics (2nd half only)

24 Halfcourt Touches for Wilt
4 assists for Wilt
1 turnover for Wilt
56 offensive possessions for team

By all accounts this (Gm. 4) was a very lethargic & inefficient game played by the Sixers compared to their usual standard. Even if we assume that they played their worst game for every single night of the season, the above stats suggest that Wilt averaged roughly 8 assists per game that year (which is true), & only 2 turnovers. An average of 8 assists & only 2 turnovers is excellent for a big man.

In viewing the game footage of the 1964 Warriors Celtics NBA Finals matchup (Gm. 4), we can see a few statistics below.

-16 Halfcourt Touches for Wilt

-1 assist for Wilt

-1* turnover for Wilt (which came from what was clearly an incorrect traveling call, even by the textbook 60's standards)

-52 offensive possessions for team

Why from all avaliable Wilt's games you chose these, which are incomplete?

And you are not the only one who stat tracked old games. I did it myself, I even created play by plays and for example there are avaliable two complete Wilt's games: 1970 finals G7 and '72 MIL-LAL.

In first one Wilt had 5 AST and 5 TOV, vs Bucks 1 AST and also 5 TOV. So based on that we have terrible player in terms of TOVs, with awful ast/tov ratio.

BTW, in both these games West had the highest tournovers number: 6 in 1970 G7 and 8 in '72 game.

ardee · Post #14 » by **ardee** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:43 pm

Wilt '66:

Led the league in minutes, points, rebounds and field goal percentage. Probably would have led the league or been second in blocks had it been recorded. Third in assists.

Wilt '67:

Highest field goal percentage ever for over 20 ppg (24 ppg, 68% from the field). Only some of his other seasons have had more RPG (24.2). Most apg by a center ever, would have been top 5 in the league OVERALL today (7.8).

Has to be the Dipper, there isn't any other reasonable choice. The free-throws are a small bummer, but his unreal, God-like, holy **** domination outside of that makes it a VERY easy win for him.

LAKERS_1981 · Post #15 » by **LAKERS_1981** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:08 pm

Wilt and it is not close

Yes he had bad FT % but he had big numbers at pts, reb, blk, FG% and good ast number.

TheXFactor · Post #16 » by **TheXFactor** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:09 pm

Wilt easily

BattleTested · Post #17 » by **BattleTested** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:04 am

Can't believe no one's mentioned Lebron.

Dipper 13 · Post #18 » by **Dipper 13** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:07 am

penbeast0 wrote:Dipper, it could be true without being true . . . presumably whatever fantasy game you play has to put some number in for Wilt and turnovers and they may rate him as turnover prone even if he wasn't.

My favorite fantasy basketball site is whatifsports.com but they consistently rate Bill Russell as a 70 (while guys like Julius Erving consistently get 100) and have him as an average shotblocking center which I think is pretty unreasonable based on . . . well, everything anyone knows about that period. Still a cool game but it's a problem.

My mistake. I am not familiar with fantasy sports.

DavidStern wrote:Why from all avaliable Wilt's games you chose these, which are incomplete?

And you are not the only one who stat tracked old games. I did it myself, I even created play by plays and for example there are avaliable two complete Wilt's games: 1970 finals G7 and '72 MIL-LAL.

In first one Wilt had 5 AST and 5 TOV, vs Bucks 1 AST and also 5 TOV. So based on that we have terrible player in terms of TOVs, with awful ast/tov ratio.

BTW, in both these games West had the highest tournovers number: 6 in 1970 G7 and 8 in '72 game.

It was the only game footage from his prime years where he had some role in the offense. Also pre injury, which effectively limited his mobility, making him more predictable on offense, thus increasing his chance for a TO. I can see that there would be fair number of TO's in attempting to forcefeed him down low, but the patience he demonstrated with the 76ers appears to show low risk passes, where the players would be cutting by him & he would basically put the ball in their chest or hands from a close distance.

An example of his patience below shows two fake passes followed by a power move to the basket, drawing four defenders and finding an open Billy C. We can also see the defensive players with their hands up denying the active cutters. If he forced the first pass or two then it would likely be a turnover.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x48zv5 (4:30 mark)

But it wasn't as much ball faking as it was to protect it from the defense, also with his beautiful hand offs. No center except perhaps Walton/Russell was ever better at hitting the cutters from the pivot. You may be thinking too much of 1970 playoffs, when his mobility was Bynum-esque, having just come off career a threatening knee injury. He was nowhere near the scoring threat he was in his younger years & therefore more predictable on offense. Plus NY was playing off him a bit. A player like Wilt who relied a lot on his physical power & floor positioning preferred to feel the defender on him in the pivot, so he could better read & react due to his lack of a faceup game. Despite being a stationary pivot for the most part even in Philly, he was great at moving from one side of the lane to the other as the ball swung on the perimeter. With the Lakers I have never seen him that active on offense.

There was also a video which Youtube has since deleted showing Walker, Greer, & Wilt in a triangle setup where the Bullets defense dictated the Sixers passes. Greer had the ball & saw Walker's man was sagging back so he passed to Walker, who's man thus comes up while Greer's man sags. So Walker hits Wilt who makes a two handed touch pass back to Greer for the open shot. It doesn't seem Wilt drew very many double teams due to the constant player movement. I am also assuming that a fair number of his points during the early high scoring Warriors years came in transition as a finisher (primarily from Guy Rodgers) thus inflating his regular season average & overstating his alleged playoff decline (where naturally the game would slow down & there would be less possessions).

lorak · Post #19 » by **lorak** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:15 pm

I agree with you Dipper. If I remember correctly, in those two games most of Wilt's tournovers were committed, when he was trying to play back to the basket. As a passer he was good, so it's very probably that during his 76ers years, when he played as point center he had less tournovers. But still, I think that during his early years and of course during Lakers season, his TOV numbers were huge.

Kabookalu · Post #20 » by **Kabookalu** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:44 pm

I've never played fantasy basketball but Clyde Drexler looks like a stat suffer.

88-89 27ppg, 8rpg, 6apg, 2.7spg, 0.7bpg, 3.2tov, .500FG%, .80FT%.