BAT 8.0 DISCUSSION -Links pg1(DRAFT IN OTHERTHREAD) Part III

[Knicksfan20]

Yea maybe some people should edit their posts. Cuz i dont wanna read through that mess either lol. You should definatly start Roy though, hes starting for Minny...Green would be better off the bench. Id grade you higher personally if you did that.

[Fury]

Done pimping.

[br7knicks]

thanks kf20. i prefer greens outside shooting to play with boozer and camby, then roys overall scoring expertise off the bench

[NewEra]

Now is the perfect time for a blockbuster deal...(sike)

Where's everybody these days?

[Context]

I'm around- I would be down for a blockbuster

[TheGarden]

6. Golden State Warriors
PG: Jose Calderon~D. Lillard~A. Shved
SG: Bradley Beal~C. Budinger/ Doron Lamb
SF: Chandler Parsons~R. Jefferson
PF: Anthony Davis~Tr. Thompson~A. Moultrie
C: Omer Asik~J. Valanciunas~M. Leonard / Joel Freeland
HC: Frank Vogel
• Lots of high ceiling talent in Davis, Valanciunas, Leonard, Beal, Lillard
• Lots of cap flexibility, although I wouldn’t have drafted Jefferson and even Asik because their contracts will be moderately hard to trade
• Should be in position to get more high picks and has a long window to sign top free agents

21. Detroit Pistons
Head Coach- Mike Dunlap
C- JaVale McGee/Andrew Nicholson/Hasheem Thabeet
F- Lamar Odom/Jared Sullinger
F- Kawhi Leonard/Perry Jones/Jeffrey Taylor
G- Eric Gordon/Dion Waiters
G- Eric Bledsoe/Tony Wroten
• Lots of flexibility, but the guys you’ve committed to long term may be a little overpaid
• Would prefer better prospects at PG and PF

I know you're rankings mean nothing but this makes no sense at all

[NewEra]

Appreciate the write up Willy. Thanks. I understand the knock on my window, but I did intend to build a team to win now. Glad you see it the way I do. It's been quiet but believe it or not I've still been working the emails, patiently looking to get better. Congrats to all the other teams who made top 8 in this particular ranking...this has been the most competetive bat yet.

Indiana Pacers GM,
NewEra

[Knicksfan20]

I definatly agree that the Pacers are the best in the East. But i also think my team stacks up the best against them . I think if there is any team that could give the pacers a hard time in the Championship game, it would be mine with the amount of size and defense i have.

Disagreed with being the 6th best win now team. Outside of the Pacers, there isnt a team that can match up with me in the half court set and defend my size. Nor is there a single team in the BAT who's offense i cant stop with all the defensive weapons i have.


I have a ton of great 3point shooters surrounding my 2 post players (the 2 best post scorers in the NBA mind you) which means a lot of spacing and a lot of open 3 point shots when needing to double team.

IMO i think its me and the Pacers in the Finals in a tough grind it out championship that goes 6 or 7 and could go either way. I think my front line is better (and i take Duncan over Pau any day in the playoffs) and if my shooters get hot, its curtains.

But i still believe that the Pacers are probably the best team in the Comp. I just think i match up well against them and could beat them in a 7 game series.

[WillyJakkz]

Here's the thing fellas.

Sports are all about matchups and yes you matchup good frontcourt-wise w/ the Pacers but if you really look at it I have you 4th in the West, the Hornets are a 2nd RD team imo.

West:
1 Mavs (Not beating Dirk, Joe, Horford, then Gordon, etc too much scoring + height to matchup w you)
2 Suns (Not beating LeBron, Gasol, etc, you can't convince me of that, bad matchup for you)
3 Thunder (Not beating Kobe w Deng and Lopez to help, tough matchup for both teams in a long series)
4 Hornets (As stated in rankings, tough halfcourt team, no shot creators would have to rely on supreme execution in the halfcourt set, not enough scoring to get it done)

Instead of looking ahead to playing in the Finals imo, the Hornets have to get out the West and those 3 teams listed above I have beating you, I had a hard time putting you ahead of the Wolves and Blazers but the matchups were in your favor in the end simply because of Bynum Duncan duo but I'm a keep it real:

Your backcourt (including SF) is only ok and they'll be the reason for your teams losses. Mo ain't stopping anybody, Afflalo is really good defensively (offense, too) and is great for your team, Prince is a shell of himself you can't convince me otherwise he had a chance to leave a losing situation in Detroit and stayed for the money showing his complacency (not loyalty imo), Thomas is really nice not gonna stop anybody but he will try.

Bottomline is to me you guys can't score and won't be able to stop a running team, period cause those 2 goliaths (Tim and Drew) ain't getting up and down the court for a whole season or series, and I'm leaving injuries out of the equation as well.

Anywho I'm glad you guys appreciate the writeup.

[NewEra]

I definatly agree that the Pacers are the best in the East. But i also think my team stacks up the best against them . I think if there is any team that could give the pacers a hard time in the Championship game, it would be mine with the amount of size and defense i have.

Disagreed with being the 6th best win now team. Outside of the Pacers, there isnt a team that can match up with me in the half court set and defend my size. Nor is there a single team in the BAT who's offense i cant stop with all the defensive weapons i have.


I have a ton of great 3point shooters surrounding my 2 post players (the 2 best post scorers in the NBA mind you) which means a lot of spacing and a lot of open 3 point shots when needing to double team.

IMO i think its me and the Pacers in the Finals in a tough grind it out championship that goes 6 or 7 and could go either way. I think my front line is better (and i take Duncan over Pau any day in the playoffs) and if my shooters get hot, its curtains.

But i still believe that the Pacers are probably the best team in the Comp. I just think i match up well against them and could beat them in a 7 game series.

This would be fun to watch

[Knicksfan20]

Duncan and Pau put up similar numbers last season, while Duncan played 10 less mpg last season. Duncan also out performed Pau in the playoffs. So no, its not undisputeable. Last 2 post seasons, Pau has put up an average of about 13/8 with horrible shooting numbers. Tim is still the better player even though he has less years left, but we can call them even.

So Afflalo and Prince arnt better then Sef and Ron? Highly disagree. Unlike Thabo who cant shoot for **** nor can he score, and unlike Artest who cant shoot for **** and is a head case....My 2 best perimeter guys can also shoot and score on there own. Sef is a great defender...But so is Afflalo, and if one is better then the other, its debatable. But whats not debatable is the fact that None of my defensive players outside of maybe Pachulia, hurt me on the offensive side or the spacing side of the ball.


Bynum>Hibbert
Duncan=>Pau
Prince>Wright
Afflalo>Thabo
Nash>Mo

Pachulia=Thompson
Harrington>DJ White
Singleton<Artest (But its not a huge difference, Artest has been pretty bad last 2 or 3 seasons)
Manu>whoever
Isiah>Telfair

So is your team really that much better when i have superior players at more positions then you? Also i didnt rob anybody in a trade like you did. I drafted every single one of my players.

SO no...your team is not far better then mine.

Stop reaching. Pachulia = Thompson? Yea ok, I stopped there.

Ok so instead of giving me props, you knock me for making a trade that benefited my team calling it robbery? You're definitely mad right now. It's only a game. A game that I whipped your behind in and given another opportunity in bat 9, i'd do it again.

I like your team though, it's my style of building except for Mo at PG. I would have gone more pure there, but you did a decent job and I think it's one of the better teams.

@ Newera So 9 and 7 doesnt = 8 and 8? Because thats exactly what they both put up last season as well. ANd Pachulia is the superior defender as well as a better utility player. Sets strong screens, great box out. Thompson is more athletic and has higher potential, but he has been pretty much a dissapointment in the NBA. Still a solid backup, but lets not act as if he is a lot better then Pachulia or what Vucevic can bring to the table.

I gave you props, i said you were the number 1 team (cant argue with me that you stole Nash) I just said i match up the best with you then any other team. Size and defense and rebounding wins, and IMO you and I have the 2 biggest and defensive minded teams in the league. Also this was my 3rd BAT. My first one i reached on some guys and didnt really know how the draft would play out, and the same with the 2nd. But i did a solid job in both, and the 3rd i had a good idea and a good gameplan throughout.




@ Willy. How the hell is the Mavs too much Height? I have the biggest team in the entire BAT. Too much scoring? I have a defender at every position where they have scoring. Defense wins championships, not scoring. Id love to see how Dirk plans to guard Bynum on a switch or if he can handle Duncan 1 on 1 . Prince will lock up Joe and Eric Gordan will be handled by Afflalo(Thats if Gordan can stay healthy, which he hasnt proved he can do).

Lebron is a bad matchup....For them. Lebron is a driver, he is the best player in the game. But once he gets passed my first line of defense...he has to then put up a shot with Bynum and Duncan in the paint. Gasol is a beast, but not a great fit with Lebron IMO. I dont remember the rest of his team.

Seriously...Lopez and Deng is whats going to stop me? Deng is a great 2 way player...but he isnt a superstar. Lopez cant rebound nor can he defend. Good luck with my 2 bigs down low who will ABUSE HIM.


To say my team has no shot creators is silly. My team is not built on Iso scoring, nor would a pure PG be benificial to my starting lineup unless i had Nash or Kidd or somebody like that. My team is a half court team, yes it may struggle against teams with athletic bigs who can run up and down the floor, but thats not a huge concern to me. Teams dont score 50ppg in transition. So i may give up some fast break points, but those same teams who play fast pace, probably arnt the best in a half court setting and will be getting abused by my two bigs. You cant argue with that.

Back to the "shot creators" Mo Williams is an underated player and pg in this league. He is a career 5 apg player which is average to above average in terms of NBA. He is a GREAT fit with my team, becase he is a 40% 3pt shooter while making over 2 a game. He can handle the ball and is a good passer. Hes not a top tier PG, but he can score and light it up from down town. Cant leave him open to double down low or he will make you pay. All he needs to do is dribble the ball up, and dump the ball down low. I'll have Duncan at the High post where he is great at and Bynum at the low post. Bynum and Duncan are both good passers out of the post and get a ton of "hockey assists" Also, Mo Williams isnt a bad defender either. He is average, ive seen him play a lot and he isnt bad.

I then have Afflalo who is one of the best 2 way players in the league. He can score in iso situations, has a very high IQ and is another 40% 3pt shooter. Cant leave him to double or else your getting burned. He also has experience taking the last shot in the game, he does it with Denver. Elite shooter and elite defender.

I then have Prince who is being undervalued it seems by you. Great man and help defender, very smart player, good rebounder...and he can ALSO hit the 3. career 37% 3pt shooter. Cant leave him open to double down low. Are you reconizing a pattern hear?

I have an ELITE defender at every position in my starting lineup outside of Mo who is average. I also have a high IQ player at every position in my starting lineup, outside of maybe Bynum.

Lets take it to the bench.

Al Harrington can create his shot in Iso situations, is a good rebounder off the bench and a pretty decent defender. Instant offense and can play and guard the 3/4. Has been a career 38% 3pt shooter over the passed 6 seasons making almost or over 2 a game. Another deadly 3pt shooter to add to the spacing on my team.

Isaiah Thomas was one of the biggest surprises last season. Elite athete, very good defender and wingspan considering his height, good passer and court visoin. 40% 3pt shooter as a starter last season while averaging 15/5.5 or something like that. Hes a pure point who can also score and shoot. Another 2 way player on my team and more spacing. If you didnt watch him play last season, i suggest you pay attention this year or watch some youtube clips of him.

Chris Singleton- Great defender, great length and a great athlete. Not a scorer, but is a hustle player who can rebound and defend players 1-4 depending on the matchups. Not a great 3pt shooter, but shot 35% and made about 1 a game if i remember right. Thats average to above average. So he spaces the floor because you cant leave him wide open, and he does the dirty work. Great pick...thank you.

Pachulia average 8/8 last season. Tough physical defender. Great pick setter, great box out. Great post defender. Not an athlete or a scorer, but he brings a toughness that you need from a backup big man.

Vucevic had 5/5 in his rookie year in limited minutes. Great foot work for a rookie and can shoot the ball. Can rebound and can defend a little while being a good shot blocker.

I then have Hamilton who will probably be a 20-25 mpg player fo rthe nuggets this year who can shoot/defend/rebound and nuggets are very high on him. Daye is very talented and Samuels can play too. I have a ton of depth on this team, so you can bring up injuries all you want. I then have Watson who is a very good backup PG who can get you 5 apg.

My team is being sevrely underated because i dont have a ton of sexy names. But i built this team very well and i had a vision and stuck with it. I may not have a ton of Iso scorers, but i have 3 bigs who can score inside (Vucevic has very good foot work and will be a very solid player for Magic) and i have 3pt shooters surrounding everybody as well as a Pure point coming off the bench.

To say my team cant make the finals is ludacris. And of the 4 teams you mentioned, id only have to face one of them in the conference finals..and id say i match up well with every single one of them.

My offense isnt bad, just because i dont have a 20ppg scorer in the back court, doesnt make my offense bad. I think your sevrely underated my teams scoring potential while disregarding my teams overall defense. Nobody will have an easy time against me with scoring in the paint, and at the same time...i have GREAT perimeter defenders in my starting lineup and off the bench. None which hurt my offensive scheme.

We'll see how bad my team really is when Duncan and Bynum are abusing Dirk and Lopez on the defensive side and rebounding side while im dropping bombs from 3 point land because they need help inside and are getting in foul trouble.

Its fine if you disagree with me, and i still appreciate your rankings...I just dont think you see my vision clearly nor are you taking in account my post scoring/defense and 3pt shooting ability.

[WillyJakkz]

You just wasted a whole lot of time typing that out (at least w/ me) cause as stated there is nothing you can say that will change my opinion of your team. Your team will struggle, even in halfcourt sets, Tim is your only leader, you have no closer, you're capped out (iirc), Bynum would likely leave NO for a better opportunity in a different city on a younger team, Mo Willams will merc his services to the highest bidder since Thomas should become the eventual starter next season. Tim will be older, your bench isn't good except Harrington, I would go on but you get the picture

Normally I'm slightly more belligerent when the slick remarks come my way but I'll give you a pass, anyway good luck w/ the convincing thing, it may work better on someone else and again, yeah you matchup good w/ the Pacers and anything can happen in the PO's, you got the 6th best chance to win it all for this season only, after that you're lucky to be a playoff team.

Instead of whining about it, accept it cause being 6 outta 30 teams ain't bad at all, someone else may think you have the best team, I just don't see it that way.

Hell realistically I see my team as a 6-8 seed in the WEST, I got you 4th. I think my team would struggle w/ yours and it'd be wise for my team to try its best to avoid yours in a PO series if it came down to it.

[Knicksfan20]

1. When did i make a slick remark?
2. How am i whining?

You cant judge my team and assume Bynum will be leaving. He was my first round pick, he will resign with my team next season. I was stating my case why i think my team will be better then 4th, and i still believe i am. You bring up teams with a lesser and poor rebounding front court. Do you have any idea how many offensive rebounds I will secure against those teams?

Size wins in the NBA, I may not have a superstar closer...but i feel more then confident with dumping the ball down low to either of my bigs in late game situations. And if either of them get doubled, i have a 40% 3pt shooter set up at the top and both corners just waiting. I just dont see how a team with 2 of the best scoring/defensive low post bigs (double double guys, and shot blockers as well) along with 2 other elite defenders in the starting lineup can finish 4th and not have a good chance to make the finals within a 3 year time frame.

I disagree with that, and you can call that whining if you'd like, but im going to defend my opinion either way. Id also disagree with only having 1 leader. I would consider Prince/Baron Davis/Afflalo(although young) and Mo Williams leaders as well. Bynum im hoping can turn into one down the line with Duncan's influence.

Like i said, you can have your opinon and thats fine. But i have mine and if given the same chance, i would redraft my team the same exact way. I never once gave a slick remark, so i dont know where that even came from.

[WillyJakkz]

at Fury's "fury" from the results thread

Imo you wasted a combo of Chris Paul and Kevin Love w/ mediocre players who you hope will improve (Lee whose likely reached his ceiling and Hayward who definitely has a chance to grow) but Splitter starting at C ruins any shot of taking that team serious.

You may (and I stress may) be a playoff team in the West but make no mistake about it, your team is a pretender in my eyes, not good enough to win, not bad enough to lose enough games to get lotto pick.

Classic treadmill team and on top of that you really expect CP3 (who wants to win) to resign in Utah (of all places) w/ that team when there are 3-4 younger teams in this BaT w/ a higher ceiling and capspace to sign him?

Absolutely zero incentive for him to do that.

It's my opinion, someone else may see your team differently, I don't.

And as far as you bitching about me not doing 30 teams, top 8 is what you get, don't like it, move on.

At least I actually followed thru unlike most of you guys complaining about rankings, I could bitch and moan about nearly all you guys not doing that but I don't, I just accept it cause it's ok w/ me.

[Knicksfan20]

I'll do a rankings sometime this weekend. I'll do a top 15 team (8 for the east and 7 for the west since i wont include my team in the rankings)

I dont have a whole lot of time, and i have been working 6 day weeks lately, but Sunday im off and i'll probably have them posted sometime in the morning. Hopefully others follow Willy's lead.

Also Willy, you cant judge based on where the team is. We dont get to pick what team we have nor does it matter. We are judging purely on GM ability and the way we draft/build our teams.

[WillyJakkz]

I'll do a rankings sometime this weekend. I'll do a top 15 team (8 for the east and 7 for the west since i wont include my team in the rankings)

I dont have a whole lot of time, and i have been working 6 day weeks lately, but Sunday im off and i'll probably have them posted sometime in the morning. Hopefully others follow Willy's lead.

Also Willy, you cant judge based on where the team is. We dont get to pick what team we have nor does it matter. We are judging purely on GM ability and the way we draft/build our teams.

Don't agree w/ you here on this point simply because it makes absolutely zero sense to factor in salary/ team budgeting into the judging equation but then look past potential FA's.

GM'ing doesn't work like that in my book and it def doesn't work like that in real life and this is RealGM isn't it?

We're building a team, that's what this all about in my opinion so why have a guy like Blueninja w/ the Warriors who was quite tight-fisted w/ his budget but built a superb team in the Bay Area and got high potential rookies mixed w/ a coupla vets on higher contracts where he is able to potentially sign a max FA or has lower contract high potential rookies who could be used to do a S&T w/ teams in years 2-5 but NOT be able to take that into consideration when I judged his team?

If I were GM'ing/ Building a team in a small market I'd have the vision to try to select a Superstar player locked into his deal or if not, at the very least draft some high caliber talent around the guy to give him a reason to stay.

Your team for instance:
Bynum (FA) Mo Williams (FA) so if your team doesn't win it all, you've gotta convince the guy to wanna resign in New Orleans w/ a team of Tim Duncan (who'll retire in 2 more years but is a huge expirer), Harrington, Prince, and Afflalo locked into longer deals, and Isaiah Thomas & Vucevic as the better young prospects.

Utah has Love locked in long term, Lee and Hayward are of no consequence to me as they are replaceable (moreso Lee than Hayward) but the point is, that's all Utah would have to sell Chris Paul on to resign.

Warriors have young talent (Unibrow, Lillard, Beal, Asik, Big Val, TT, Parsons), capspace, and a great location to offer either one OR both of those players.

I mean sh*t... I even gotta have a reason to sell expiring Josh Smith (DeMar DeRozan, too) on coming back to Denver (a cold weather city). I even considered moving him simply for this reason and I'm hoping that having Carmelo locked in would be enough incentive for him to stay. I drafted Plumlee and Wes Johnson just in case and may take a step back if those guys left (hopefully in a S&T so I could get something back whether it's a player or draft pick/s) and I'm gambling on Greg Oden being a factor so maybe I could afford to lose Smith or something.

Point is it's really simple logic to me honestly so I factor impending FA's and team location into the equation bigtime.

Anyway, look forward to reading your rankings man.

Look forward to reading ANYBODY'S rankings honestly

[Fury]

lol what? Anyway, try judging the way you were asked to over your own style.

Secondly, Tiago Splitter is a good rebounder, defender and pick and roll player. I'm not even going through my bench that has three good bench players on winning teams (Neal, Dunleavy, Arthur). You're obviously misguided.

lol @ at Love not being enough for Paul to stay. Is that why you were offering Carmelo Anthony for Kevin Love? Just trying to get your signals straight. Kevin Love is the best PF in the league, dummy. With Chris Paul, he's unstoppable.

[WillyJakkz]

lol what? Anyway, try judging the way you were asked to over your own style.

Secondly, Tiago Splitter is a good rebounder, defender and pick and roll player. I'm not even going through my bench that has three good bench players on winning teams (Neal, Dunleavy, Arthur). You're obviously misguided.

lol @ at Love not being enough for Paul to stay. Is that why you were offering Carmelo Anthony for Kevin Love? Just trying to get your signals straight. Kevin Love is the best PF in the league, dummy. With Chris Paul, he's unstoppable.

Why don't you try judging it period, you did afterall start this then passed the buck and responsibility to kneega.

Good to see you jumped outta the plane and pulled the parachute on your own project, gotta respect that

Thanks for "educating me" about your players

Everyone and their grandma knows I was trying to get Carmelo outta DENVER, nothin' new but hey I still got the initial email from early in the draft when you wanted to trade Love for Melo, I just put the deal off, not you, and MUCH LATER when I contacted you about restarting talks it was too late in the draft to rearrange the team so don't front like you didn't want him.

How'd trying to pawn Courtney Lee off on someone work out for ya? Umm yeah.... exactly.....

K Love is gonna keep Chris Paul in Utah...? Utah???? Wait for it........

Your team just isn't Top 8 to me, not Bottom 8 either but nonetheless not Top 8 either so meantime....

Get off my jock and get yo ass to writing a results/ judging post, until then I have no respect for a child bitchin' to a man who followed thru on his responsibilities in this BaT.

Enjoy your day though

[Fury]

Let me see the email. Post it. I believe I wanted a 2for 2 and not straight up. And don't pass off the buck. I never said Melo sucked but if I wanted him straight up for Love, it would have been done so show the email

And yes, you're a man for posting judgment on a fake team in a fake draft. You the man.

[WillyJakkz]

Once again the term "man" escapes a childs comprehension.

Responsibility is the key to being a man/ adult but hey, I can't raise someone else's child.

And stop wasting time, all this dumbass "fury" (pun intended) you're using to respond to my posts you could easily be using to move those little bitty childlike fingers of yours to type on your keyboard your opinion of the draft.

Look forward to reading it, that is if you're man enough to step up to the plate and voice your opinion of someone else's team or will you continue to be a child and complain only about your team because you aren't man enough to stand up to the vitriol that will come your way when peeps don't agree w/ your opinion.

Or will you pass the buck onto someone else to do your rankings?