RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread

[mysticbb]

A list of player peak seasons entirely based on stats from 2003 to 2012.

Code: Select all

Name              #  Year  Tm  SPM  RAPM Min   CPM NCPM
LeBron James      8  2010 CLE   8.4  9.8 3426  9.1  9.3
Kevin Garnett    10  2004 MIN   7.3  8.0 4013  7.7  8.5
Dwyane Wade       7  2010 MIA   5.9  8.4 3002  7.1  7.3
Tim Duncan       10  2007 SAS   6.4  8.8 3461  7.6  7.1
Dirk Nowitzki    10  2011 DAL   5.2  8.6 3330  6.8  6.7
Manu Ginobili     8  2005 SAS   5.2  6.4 2965  5.8  6.2
Shaquille O’Neal  4  2003 LAL   5.9  4.9 3016  5.4  6.2
Dwight Howard     5  2011 ORL   6.3  5.5 3193  6.0  5.9
Chris Paul        5  2009 NOH   6.1  5.8 3203  6.0  5.8
Kobe Bryant       7  2009 LAL   5.5  6.1 3900  5.8  5.6
Steve Nash        8  2007 PHO   5.5  6.3 3095  5.9  5.5
Kevin Durant      3  2010 OKC   5.7  4.1 3470  5.0  5.1
Jason Kidd        3  2003 NJN   4.8  3.8 3841  4.3  4.9
Yao Ming          3  2007 HOU   5.9  3.8 1884  5.0  4.7
Paul Pierce       3  2008 BOS   4.2  5.4 3864  4.8  4.5
Derrick Rose      2  2012 CHI   5.1  3.5 1412  4.4  4.4
Chris Bosh        4  2008 TOR   3.9  5.3 2624  4.6  4.3
Jermaine O’Neal   1  2004 IND   4.1  3.6 3392  3.8  4.3
Tracy McGrady     4  2007 HOU   5.2  3.6 2819  4.5  4.3
Baron Davis       1  2007 GSW   3.1  6.1 2666  4.5  4.2
Chauncey Billups  2  2008 DET   4.9  3.9 3002  4.5  4.2
Lamar Odom        1  2009 LAL   2.1  6.9 3051  4.4  4.2
Deron Williams    1  2010 UTA   3.8  4.3 3200  4.0  4.1
Elton Brand       1  2006 LAC   4.6  3.7 3616  4.2  4.0
Josh Smith        1  2012 ATL   3.9  4.1 2525  4.0  4.0
Sam Cassell       1  2004 MIN   3.7  3.5 3335  3.6  4.0
Brad Miller       2  2004 SAC   2.5  4.6 2986  3.5  3.9
Gilbert Arenas    1  2007 WAS   3.5  4.7 2942  4.1  3.8
Chris Webber      1  2003 SAC   4.3  2.5 2868  3.3  3.8
Brandon Roy       1  2009 POR   4.3  3.5 3141  4.0  3.8
Andrew Bogut      1  2010 MIL   2.9  4.5 2229  3.6  3.7
Kevin Love        1  2012 MIN   4.4  2.9 2145  3.7  3.7
Blake Griffin     1  2012 LAC   3.7  3.7 2785  3.7  3.7
Andrei Kirilenko  2  2005 UTA   2.7  4.2 1349  3.4  3.7
Rashard Lewis     1  2009 ORL   2.3  5.5 3845  3.8  3.6
Tony Parker       2  2012 SAS   3.9  3.2 2429  3.6  3.6
Carlos Boozer     1  2007 UTA   5.0  2.2 3211  3.7  3.5
Ben Wallace       1  2004 DET   2.7  3.6 3974  3.2  3.5
David Robinson    1  2003 SAS   2.2  3.8 2215  3.1  3.5
Pau Gasol         1  2009 LAL   4.1  3.1 3930  3.6  3.5
Ron Artest        1  2004 IND   2.5  3.7 3298  3.1  3.5
Amare Stoudemire  1  2005 PHO   4.9  1.6 3490  3.2  3.5
Paul Millsap      1  2012 UTA   2.1  5.0 2238  3.5  3.4


That list is compiled by taking all players from a respective season (playoffs and regular season combined) which are in average 1.5 standard deviations (minute weighted) above league average in SPM and RAPM. # says how often a player made that list during those 10 years, the years is the respective best season of the player and team the respective team the player played in the best season. Followed by the SPM and RAPM of the best season, the minutes played during that season (regular season plus playoffs). CPM is the composite of SPM and RAPM based on minute weighted standard deviation. NCPM is the normalised value, meaning, the average minute weighted standard deviation is used as the basis for each season to put all player season on equal footing.

[Josephpaul]

A list of player peak seasons entirely based on stats from 2003 to 2012.

Code: Select all

Name              #  Year  Tm  SPM  RAPM Min   CPM NCPM
LeBron James      8  2010 CLE   8.4  9.8 3426  9.1  9.3
Kevin Garnett    10  2004 MIN   7.3  8.0 4013  7.7  8.5
Dwyane Wade       6  2010 MIA   5.9  8.4 3002  7.1  7.3
Tim Duncan       10  2007 SAS   6.4  8.8 3461  7.6  7.1
Dirk Nowitzki    10  2011 DAL   5.2  8.6 3330  6.8  6.7
Manu Ginobili     8  2005 SAS   5.2  6.4 2965  5.8  6.2
Shaquille O’Neal  4  2003 LAL   5.9  4.9 3016  5.4  6.2
Dwight Howard     5  2011 ORL   6.3  5.5 3193  6.0  5.9
Chris Paul        5  2009 NOH   6.1  5.8 3203  6.0  5.8
Kobe Bryant       7  2009 LAL   5.5  6.1 3900  5.8  5.6
Steve Nash        8  2007 PHO   5.5  6.3 3095  5.9  5.5
Kevin Durant      3  2010 OKC   5.7  4.1 3470  5.0  5.1
Jason Kidd        3  2003 NJN   4.8  3.8 3841  4.3  4.9
Yao Ming          3  2007 HOU   5.9  3.8 1884  5.0  4.7
Paul Pierce       3  2008 BOS   4.2  5.4 3864  4.8  4.5
Derrick Rose      2  2012 CHI   5.1  3.5 1412  4.4  4.4
Chris Bosh        4  2008 TOR   3.9  5.3 2624  4.6  4.3
Jermaine O’Neal   1  2004 IND   4.1  3.6 3392  3.8  4.3
Tracy McGrady     4  2007 HOU   5.2  3.6 2819  4.5  4.3
Baron Davis       1  2007 GSW   3.1  6.1 2666  4.5  4.2
Chauncey Billups  2  2008 DET   4.9  3.9 3002  4.5  4.2
Lamar Odom        1  2009 LAL   2.1  6.9 3051  4.4  4.2
Deron Williams    1  2010 UTA   3.8  4.3 3200  4.0  4.1
Elton Brand       1  2006 LAC   4.6  3.7 3616  4.2  4.0
Josh Smith        1  2012 ATL   3.9  4.1 2525  4.0  4.0
Sam Cassell       1  2004 MIN   3.7  3.5 3335  3.6  4.0
Brad Miller       2  2004 SAC   2.5  4.6 2986  3.5  3.9
Gilbert Arenas    1  2007 WAS   3.5  4.7 2942  4.1  3.8
Chris Webber      1  2003 SAC   4.3  2.5 2868  3.3  3.8
Brandon Roy       1  2009 POR   4.3  3.5 3141  4.0  3.8
Andrew Bogut      1  2010 MIL   2.9  4.5 2229  3.6  3.7
Kevin Love        1  2012 MIN   4.4  2.9 2145  3.7  3.7
Blake Griffin     1  2012 LAC   3.7  3.7 2785  3.7  3.7
Andrei Kirilenko  2  2005 UTA   2.7  4.2 1349  3.4  3.7
Rashard Lewis     1  2009 ORL   2.3  5.5 3845  3.8  3.6
Tony Parker       2  2012 SAS   3.9  3.2 2429  3.6  3.6
Carlos Boozer     1  2007 UTA   5.0  2.2 3211  3.7  3.5
Ben Wallace       1  2004 DET   2.7  3.6 3974  3.2  3.5
David Robinson    1  2003 SAS   2.2  3.8 2215  3.1  3.5
Pau Gasol         1  2009 LAL   4.1  3.1 3930  3.6  3.5
Ron Artest        1  2004 IND   2.5  3.7 3298  3.1  3.5
Paul Millsap      1  2012 UTA   2.1  5.0 2238  3.5  3.4


That list is compiled by taking all players from a respective season (playoffs and regular season combined) which are in average 1.5 standard deviations (minute weighted) above league average in SPM and RAPM. # says how often a player made that list during those 10 years, the years is the respective best season of the player and team the respective team the player played in the best season. Followed by the SPM and RAPM of the best season, the minutes played during that season (regular season plus playoffs). CPM is the composite of SPM and RAPM based on minute weighted standard deviation. NCPM is the normalised value, meaning, the average minute weighted standard deviation is used as the basis for each season to put all player season on equal footing.

Only KG and boozer has played more than kobe in 09 , interesting.

[mysticbb]

If everyone's best season was their best statistical season then we'd be voting for '88 Jordan, '90 Olajuwon, '72 Jabbar, '85 Bird, etc.

From a statistical point of view, Jordan's best season was 1991. The combination of regular season and playoff performance level was the best for Jordan in 1991 not in 1988. Also, I have Larry Bird in 1986 with better stats than in 1985, Olajuwon having his best stats based season in 1993 not 1990. But well ...

[mysticbb]

Only KG and boozer has played more than kobe in 09 , interesting.

Not quite sure why the minutes would be so important, but here is the list of players with more minutes played than 2009 Bryant in a season in which they were 1.5 standard deviations above average:

Code: Select all

Player              Min   Year
Tim Duncan          4202  2003
LeBron James        4083  2007
Dirk Nowitzki       4072  2006
Kobe Bryant         4055  2008
Kevin Garnett       4013  2004
LeBron James        3985  2011
Ben Wallace         3974  2004
LeBron James        3965  2006
Kobe Bryant         3933  2003
Pau Gasol           3930  2009


Interesting to know, Duncan, James and Nowitzki had a higher NCPM in those seasons than Bryant in 2009 too. In fact, there are multiple players including those named, who had multiple seasons better than 2009 Bryant. From all 131 qualified player seasons, Bryant 2009 is ranked 32nd.

[bastillon]

so tough... they are so close, most of them, I could literally change my mind every minute.

1.Russell 65
2.Jordan 91
3.Hakeem 93

that's my top-3. I feel like Kareem-Walton, Bird-Magic, LeBron-Erving, KG-Duncan are just too close to make a definite ranking. I'm pretty sure though they're all better than Wilt 67 though. really unimpressed by that season considering that Russell was injured in the postseason, Sixers were so much more stacked than any other team in the league that it's not even funny (if you took away the best player from each team, Sixers wouldn't have a serious competition) and Wilt was a huge disappointment in prior and following seasons. but then again, everybody seems to think Wilt vs Russell should be legitimate debate, I'm pretty confident Wilt was not a better player than Oscar or West and he was at Thurmond's level in terms of impact (better offense, worse defense).

1. There is no evidence Russell was injured that postseason, it has been debated enough and no one has been able to find a single article of evidence.

2. He was the MVP the previous season as well as the next season. If that's a 'huge disappointment to you', well...

there was an article posted in 1971 RPOY thread coming from NY Times about the Bucks after Robertson's arrival and it said that Kareem could possibly win a couple titles and not end up like Wilt Chamberlain who won his only 'tainted' title when Russell was injured in the postseason. I've posted this article several pages back in this thread.

during his last 15 years playing basketball Russell won 13 times. he lost once to Hawks in 58 after severe ankle sprain and he lost again in 67. he played his worst postseason ever, struggled not only vs Wilt but the round before too. if that doesn't seem suspicious to you, I don't know what would be.

[Lightning25]

Interesting to see Yao's name come up in that stat. I actually do think he might have had a top 50 peak of all-time. His peak is up there with Dwight Howard, Alonzo Mourning, etc. The only issue with him was his injury problem in 2007 (his peak). Although you could argue that Yao's peak was in 2009 instead but he was far more dominant in 2007 imo.

[mysticbb]

Interesting to see Yao's name come up in that stat. I actually do think he might have had a top 50 peak of all-time. His peak is up there with Dwight Howard, Alonzo Mourning, etc. The only issue with him was his injury problem in 2007 (his peak). Although you could argue that Yao's peak was in 2009 instead but he was far more dominant in 2007 imo.

Yeah, injuries are a problem, and for Yao we might just have to accept that we never seen him play at his full peak for more than a couple of games. The 2006 and 2009 season also made the cut. I think, if Yao could have stayed as healthy in 2007 as he was in 2009, he would have ended up even higher on that list. The injuries didn't just effect his minutes, but also his playing level, unfortunately.
Another player to discuss is Manu Ginobili. The guy produced great numbers on a consistent basis. He is on that list 8 times, with 2005 being his highest at 6.2, 2007 at 5.9, 2008 at 5.3, 2012 at 5.1, 2011 at 5.0, 2006 at 4.9 for example.

[GSP]

Really surprised to see how early DRob got in. How his peak is this much higher than Ewing or Malone?

[kasino]

are yall ever going to due highest primes?
peaks one season, multiple year stretches would be nice

[ardee]

are yall ever going to due highest primes?
peaks one season, multiple year stretches would be nice

Well next year will hopefully be Retro Offensive Player/Defensive Player of the Year. Then 2014 will be another Top 100.

So, maybe 2015

[ardee]

All right, so just a few random thoughts I feel like spouting.

Before the project I had Magic and Bird both in my top 4. I was pretty disappointing when they slipped to 8 and 7 respectively. Also, I was pretty sure about Magic over Bird.

I just wanted thoughts on the bigs vs. Bird and Magic. I'm pretty sure on the top three (Wilt, Jordan, Shaq), and the order of the other bigs (Hakeem, Russell, Kareem). Magic and Bird are the odd ones out. Do you separate them? Where do they fit in?

[Dipper 13]

I feel like Kareem-Walton, Bird-Magic, LeBron-Erving, KG-Duncan are just too close to make a definite ranking. I'm pretty sure though they're all better than Wilt 67

Below we can read Coach Sharman's comments on Wilt:


The Miami News - Apr 17, 1967








Season of the 76ers: the story of Wilt Chamberlain and the 1967 NBA champion Philadelphia 76ers - Wayne Lynch

As soon as the 76ers reached the dressing room after their exhilarating last quarter that had given them a 140-116 victory, Wilt made a speech: "we've got to get four more wins before this season is over. Let's not lose sight of that," He was forceful, almost solemn. Such an attitude had as much to do with Philadelphia's success as Wilt's unmatched physical endowments. The key word was spoken afterwards by Alex Hannum, the 76er coach: "He was dedicated out there."






Regular Season:




Sarasota Journal - Feb 15, 1967




The Spokesman-Review - Feb 26, 1967






NBA Record - 35 consecutive field goals without a miss from February 17, 1967 through February 28, 1967


NBA Record - Most field goals in a game without a miss (18-18, Philadelphia 76ers vs. the Baltimore Bullets on February 24, 1967)

Chamberlain also holds the next two most with 16-16 (March 19, 1967) and 15-15 (January 20, 1967)


NBA Playoff Record - Most rebounds in a playoff game (41 against the Boston Celtics, on April 5, 1967).

-Game 3 victory in the Eastern Division finals.


NBA Playoff Record - Most rebounds in a half (26 against the San Francisco Warriors on April 16, 1967)

-Also an NBA Finals record.


NBA Playoff Record - Highest rebounding average in a playoff series (32.0 in a five game series against the Boston Celtics in 1967).


NBA Playoff Record - Most rebounds in a 5-game playoff series (160 against the Boston Celtics in 1967).


NBA Playoff Record - Most rebounds in a 6-game playoff series (171 against the San Francisco Warriors in 1967).

-Also an NBA Finals record for a 6-game series.







Playoffs:


Vs. Royals

G1 - 41 points, 23 rebounds, 5 assists, 63% FG
G2 - 37 points, 27 rebounds, 11 assists, 67% FG
G3 - 16 points, 30 rebounds, 19 assists, 62% FG
G4 - 18 points, 27 rebounds, 9 assists, 50% FG

Series Average: 28.0 ppg, 26.8 rpg, 11 apg, 61% FG
Oscar Robertson: 24.8 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 11.3 apg, 51.6% FG


Vs. Celtics

G1 - 24 points, 32 rebounds, 12 assists, 12 blocks, 69% FG
G2 - 15 points, 29 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 blocks, 45% FG
G3 - 20 points, 41 rebounds, 9 assists, 5 blocks, 57% FG
G4 - 20 points, 22 rebounds, 10 assists, at least 3 blocks, 44% FG
G5 - 29 points, 36 rebounds, 13 assists, 7 blocks, 63% FG

Series Average: 21.6 ppg, 32.0 rpg, 10.0 apg, 6+ bpg, 56% FG
Bill Russell: 11.4 ppg, 23.4 rpg, 6.0 apg, 36% FG



Vs. Warriors

G1 - 16 points, 33 rebounds, 10 assists, 75% FG (including a game-saving block on Nate)
G2 - 10 points, 38 rebounds (26 in 1st half), 10 assists, 10 blocks, 40% FG
G3 - 26 points, 26 rebounds, 5 assists, 52% FG
G4 - 10 points, 27 rebounds, 8 assists, 11 blocks, 50% FG
G5 - 20 points, 24 rebounds, 4 assists, 60% FG
G6 - 24 points, 23 rebounds, 4 assists, 62% FG

Series Average: 17.6 ppg, 28.5 rpg, 6.8 apg, 56% FG
Nate Thurmond: 14.1 ppg, 26.6 rpg, 3.3 apg, 34% FG


Playoff averages: 21.7 ppg, 29.1 rpg, 9.0 apg, 57.9% FG/54.6% TS

[ardee]

I feel like Kareem-Walton, Bird-Magic, LeBron-Erving, KG-Duncan are just too close to make a definite ranking. I'm pretty sure though they're all better than Wilt 67

Below we can read Coach Sharman's comments on Wilt:


The Miami News - Apr 17, 1967








Season of the 76ers: the story of Wilt Chamberlain and the 1967 NBA champion Philadelphia 76ers - Wayne Lynch

As soon as the 76ers reached the dressing room after their exhilarating last quarter that had given them a 140-116 victory, Wilt made a speech: "we've got to get four more wins before this season is over. Let's not lose sight of that," He was forceful, almost solemn. Such an attitude had as much to do with Philadelphia's success as Wilt's unmatched physical endowments. The key word was spoken afterwards by Alex Hannum, the 76er coach: "He was dedicated out there."






Regular Season:




Sarasota Journal - Feb 15, 1967




The Spokesman-Review - Feb 26, 1967






NBA Record - 35 consecutive field goals without a miss from February 17, 1967 through February 28, 1967


NBA Record - Most field goals in a game without a miss (18-18, Philadelphia 76ers vs. the Baltimore Bullets on February 24, 1967)

Chamberlain also holds the next two most with 16-16 (March 19, 1967) and 15-15 (January 20, 1967)


NBA Playoff Record - Most rebounds in a playoff game (41 against the Boston Celtics, on April 5, 1967).

-Game 3 victory in the Eastern Division finals.


NBA Playoff Record - Most rebounds in a half (26 against the San Francisco Warriors on April 16, 1967)

-Also an NBA Finals record.


NBA Playoff Record - Highest rebounding average in a playoff series (32.0 in a five game series against the Boston Celtics in 1967).


NBA Playoff Record - Most rebounds in a 5-game playoff series (160 against the Boston Celtics in 1967).


NBA Playoff Record - Most rebounds in a 6-game playoff series (171 against the San Francisco Warriors in 1967).

-Also an NBA Finals record for a 6-game series.







Playoffs:


Vs. Royals

G1 - 41 points, 23 rebounds, 5 assists, 63% FG
G2 - 37 points, 27 rebounds, 11 assists, 67% FG
G3 - 16 points, 30 rebounds, 19 assists, 62% FG
G4 - 18 points, 27 rebounds, 9 assists, 50% FG

Series Average: 28.0 ppg, 26.8 rpg, 11 apg, 61% FG
Oscar Robertson: 24.8 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 11.3 apg, 51.6% FG


Vs. Celtics

G1 - 24 points, 32 rebounds, 12 assists, 12 blocks, 69% FG
G2 - 15 points, 29 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 blocks, 45% FG
G3 - 20 points, 41 rebounds, 9 assists, 5 blocks, 57% FG
G4 - 20 points, 22 rebounds, 10 assists, at least 3 blocks, 44% FG
G5 - 29 points, 36 rebounds, 13 assists, 7 blocks, 63% FG

Series Average: 21.6 ppg, 32.0 rpg, 10.0 apg, 6+ bpg, 56% FG
Bill Russell: 11.4 ppg, 23.4 rpg, 6.0 apg, 36% FG



Vs. Warriors

G1 - 16 points, 33 rebounds, 10 assists, 75% FG (including a game-saving block on Nate)
G2 - 10 points, 38 rebounds (26 in 1st half), 10 assists, 10 blocks, 40% FG
G3 - 26 points, 26 rebounds, 5 assists, 52% FG
G4 - 10 points, 27 rebounds, 8 assists, 11 blocks, 50% FG
G5 - 20 points, 24 rebounds, 4 assists, 60% FG
G6 - 24 points, 23 rebounds, 4 assists, 62% FG

Series Average: 17.6 ppg, 28.5 rpg, 6.8 apg, 56% FG
Nate Thurmond: 14.1 ppg, 26.6 rpg, 3.3 apg, 34% FG


Playoff averages: 21.7 ppg, 29.1 rpg, 9.0 apg, 57.9% FG/54.6% TS

+10000

The Wilt hatred in this project has been ridiculous.

I've learnt a ton from this project about a variety of players, from Russell to Garnett to LeBron to West.

The most important thing I learned though, was that people will never be logical when a player is so devastatingly good that logical arguments cannot be used against him.

[bastillon]

we all know you can't fall in love with Wilt's stats because they're empty. the guy was arguing for every stat with scorekeepers. look at his monstrous stats in 65 and compare them to his negligible impact. it's almost sad that you can put up 35/23/3.5 and make no impact (Wilt 65). what matters more is that Wilt-less Sixers would still put up about 5-6 SRS quite easily. so Wilt didn't even give them more lift than Rodman 96-97 did on the Bulls.

[Dipper 13]

+10000

The Wilt hatred in this project has been ridiculous.

I've learnt a ton from this project about a variety of players, from Russell to Garnett to LeBron to West.

Not just this project. I still sense however there is a silent majority who have yet to lose their sanity. Just above we have seen a peaked Wilt unfavorably compared to a 35 yr. old one dimensional specialist.



Loose balls: easy money, hard fouls, cheap laughs & true love in the NBA - Jayson Williams





Chicago Tribune - Feb 8, 1997

Also offering his opinion of Rodman was Wilt Chamberlain, the greatest rebounder and No. 2 scorer in NBA history. Chamberlain and Magic Johnson are among several Hall of Famers who believe the presence of too many "specialists"--players who only shoot or rebound or defend is one reason why scoring is down and the game is slower. Rodman, Chamberlain said, "is a big rebounder. He does it better than anyone else out there. But I am amazed (at) guys who tend not to want to understand that playing the complete game is what the game should be about. "I remember Elgin Baylor scoring 45 and 71 points against us beating us and getting 18 rebounds. I'm not impressed with Dennis' 17 rebound average. He's not an all-around player. Why I like a guy like Charles Barkley so much is he gives his team whatever it needs at that time."



Herald-Journal - Feb 6, 1997




Apr 24, 1997

The league has become simply too boring to watch.

At least that's the conclusion drawn by one of the NBA's legendary stars, Wilt Chamberlain, who, as always, had a few other observations about the league during a recent visit to New York.



Wilt Chamberlain, one of the game's legends, says the NBA has become a boring league dominated by endorsement-driven athletes. "The public-relations guys have sold us all a bill of goods," Chamberlain said. "They're the real stars of the league."

The best part of the game, he said, is the commercials, in which players hustle and play defense -- two things fans rarely see in actual games. "The league would have us believe these guys walk on water," said [Wilt Chamberlain], who averaged 30.1 points and 22.9 rebounds during his 14-year career with the Philadelphia and Golden State Warriors, Philadelphia 76ers and Los Angeles Lakers. "The truth is, they're really just walking in mud."

[ardee]

+10000

The Wilt hatred in this project has been ridiculous.

I've learnt a ton from this project about a variety of players, from Russell to Garnett to LeBron to West.

Not just this project. I still sense however there is a silent majority who have yet to lose their sanity. Just above we have seen a peaked Wilt unfavorably compared to a 35 yr. old one dimensional specialist.



Loose balls: easy money, hard fouls, cheap laughs & true love in the NBA - Jayson Williams





Chicago Tribune - Feb 8, 1997

Also offering his opinion of Rodman was Wilt Chamberlain, the greatest rebounder and No. 2 scorer in NBA history. Chamberlain and Magic Johnson are among several Hall of Famers who believe the presence of too many "specialists"--players who only shoot or rebound or defend is one reason why scoring is down and the game is slower. Rodman, Chamberlain said, "is a big rebounder. He does it better than anyone else out there. But I am amazed (at) guys who tend not to want to understand that playing the complete game is what the game should be about. "I remember Elgin Baylor scoring 45 and 71 points against us beating us and getting 18 rebounds. I'm not impressed with Dennis' 17 rebound average. He's not an all-around player. Why I like a guy like Charles Barkley so much is he gives his team whatever it needs at that time."



Herald-Journal - Feb 6, 1997




Apr 24, 1997

The league has become simply too boring to watch.

At least that's the conclusion drawn by one of the NBA's legendary stars, Wilt Chamberlain, who, as always, had a few other observations about the league during a recent visit to New York.



Wilt Chamberlain, one of the game's legends, says the NBA has become a boring league dominated by endorsement-driven athletes. "The public-relations guys have sold us all a bill of goods," Chamberlain said. "They're the real stars of the league."

The best part of the game, he said, is the commercials, in which players hustle and play defense -- two things fans rarely see in actual games. "The league would have us believe these guys walk on water," said [Wilt Chamberlain], who averaged 30.1 points and 22.9 rebounds during his 14-year career with the Philadelphia and Golden State Warriors, Philadelphia 76ers and Los Angeles Lakers. "The truth is, they're really just walking in mud."

And even the minority can only use impact stats to knock Wilt.

The main argument against '67 Wilt was that in 1969, without Wilt, the Sixers were a 5 SRS team.

Well, incredibly, the Wilt-less Sixers lost in the first round to an even older Boston team then the one they beat in '67.

That ends the argument right then and there. A first round exit vs winning a title? Meh.

[ardee]

we all know you can't fall in love with Wilt's stats because they're empty. the guy was arguing for every stat with scorekeepers. look at his monstrous stats in 65 and compare them to his negligible impact. it's almost sad that you can put up 35/23/3.5 and make no impact (Wilt 65). what matters more is that Wilt-less Sixers would still put up about 5-6 SRS quite easily. so Wilt didn't even give them more lift than Rodman 96-97 did on the Bulls.

'93 Bulls (with Jordan): 6.19 SRS
'94 Bulls (without Jordan): 2.87 SRS

'93 MJ made only a 3.32 SRS difference! '93 MJ was having the same impact as '97 Rodman!

You see how silly that sounds?

[ThaRegul8r]

incredibly, the Wilt-less Sixers lost in the first round to an even older Boston team then the one they beat in '67.

That ends the argument right then and there. A first round exit vs winning a title? Meh.

I don't care to get into the extraneous stuff as I don't particularly care for agendas for or against players, but, to be fair, no one beat Boston in '69 in the postseason. So I don't see how it matters that a team happened to have the misfortune of drawing Boston in the first round when none of the other teams that faced Boston in later rounds beat them either. The Sixers without Wilt didn't beat Boston, and the Lakers with Wilt didn't beat them either.

[MisterWestside]

+10000

The Wilt hatred in this project has been ridiculous.

I've learnt a ton from this project about a variety of players, from Russell to Garnett to LeBron to West.

Not just this project. I still sense however there is a silent majority who have yet to lose their sanity. Just above we have seen a peaked Wilt unfavorably compared to a 35 yr. old one dimensional specialist.

I'm with you and ardee, trust me. Not to get into a lazy "watch the games" argument here but I'll do it anyway: NO sane basketball fan who saw Wilt play and watched footage would make these ridiculous statements about Wilt.

I think he was perhaps a prisoner of his own era more than anything else. He was such a marvel that teams literally didn't know how to implement his talents properly. There's no way he couldn't make superstar impact in today's game.

[MisterWestside]

{color=#00FF00]
'93 Bulls (with Jordan): 6.19 SRS
'94 Bulls (without Jordan): 2.87 SRS

'93 MJ made only a 3.32 SRS difference! '93 MJ was having the same impact as '97 Rodman![/color]

You see how silly that sounds?