Political Roundtable Pulsar of Annihilation part IV

[fishercob]

Obama has failed in this regard by appointing the former head of Monstanto to run the FDA. Both parties are bought by these guys. It really saddens and angers me. As long as the food supply is allowed to be corrupted, and the poor's primary access to food is to crap with no nutritional value, and Big Food is allowed unfettered access to kids' impressionable brains via TV ads, schools. etc., Obamacare will be a but a band-aid on a gunshot wound.

Fish, I agree with most of your post about Obamacare and the nutritional problems especially in young people. However, as someone who represents the Big Food industry, I disagree with your comments about Big Food. First, in today's food industry, most food manufacturers provide both nutritional and non-nutritional alternatives to the consuming public. Because of new technologies in food production, food manufacturers can provide a variety of healthful foods at an affordable cost. Indeed, healthful, nutritional meals are probably the fastest growing segment in what my clients offer.

The reason that kids are so frickin' fat today is not because of Big Food companies advertising to young kids (despite what media mongers like Jamie Oliver proclaim), its because the parents of these fat children let them eat anything they want. I have so many friends that let their kids eat any crap they want. It is because they don't want to hear them whining and its easier to give them what they want instead of saying no. In other cases, the parents are fat too and they let the kids eat what they eat, paying no attention to the harm that its causing, EVEN THOUGH THE PROBLEM WITH OBESITY AND ITS HARMFUL EFFECTS IS WELL PUBLISHED AND KNOWN. I personally think that parents should be charged with child abuse if their young children are fat, unless the parents can demonstrate a disease or other disability that can account for their children being fat.

Bottom line, curbing Big Food and how they advertise is, at best, going to have a miniscule effect on how kids eat. The only way kids will develop better eating habits is if their parents teach them.

BobbyD -- thanks for your perspective on this. I'd like to talk more off line because the food supply is something that I have been learning a lot about -- and I clearly need to learn more.

[pancakes3]

I think the pseudointellectual streams of media of the food industry (Michael Pollan, Food Inc. Fast Food Nation, etc.) are biased in one direction and nobody really speaks up for ConAgra, Sysco, etc. Clearly Big Food can't be pure evil like Big Tobacco, but at the same time they're no saints either. As with all things, there is no simple answer or else very smart people in the industry would have glommed onto it and exploited it fully.

I do ask Dandridge10 though, as an insider, nutritious food may be readily available and affordable but it's still more expensive than the high-fat, high calorie, low (other) nutrient options. Compare a 2L of Coke to a L of Simply Orange. Or a 20p nugget to a Chopt salad.

p.s. Fish, if you're interested in another book of similar vein to Fast Food Nation or Omnivore's Dilemma, I'm currently reading "An Economist Gets Lunch" by Tyler Cowen (local guy, prof at Mason).

p.p.s, it'd be weird if he reads this board, no?

[dandridge 10]

Obama has failed in this regard by appointing the former head of Monstanto to run the FDA. Both parties are bought by these guys. It really saddens and angers me. As long as the food supply is allowed to be corrupted, and the poor's primary access to food is to crap with no nutritional value, and Big Food is allowed unfettered access to kids' impressionable brains via TV ads, schools. etc., Obamacare will be a but a band-aid on a gunshot wound.

Fish, I agree with most of your post about Obamacare and the nutritional problems especially in young people. However, as someone who represents the Big Food industry, I disagree with your comments about Big Food. First, in today's food industry, most food manufacturers provide both nutritional and non-nutritional alternatives to the consuming public. Because of new technologies in food production, food manufacturers can provide a variety of healthful foods at an affordable cost. Indeed, healthful, nutritional meals are probably the fastest growing segment in what my clients offer.

The reason that kids are so frickin' fat today is not because of Big Food companies advertising to young kids (despite what media mongers like Jamie Oliver proclaim), its because the parents of these fat children let them eat anything they want. I have so many friends that let their kids eat any crap they want. It is because they don't want to hear them whining and its easier to give them what they want instead of saying no. In other cases, the parents are fat too and they let the kids eat what they eat, paying no attention to the harm that its causing, EVEN THOUGH THE PROBLEM WITH OBESITY AND ITS HARMFUL EFFECTS IS WELL PUBLISHED AND KNOWN. I personally think that parents should be charged with child abuse if their young children are fat, unless the parents can demonstrate a disease or other disability that can account for their children being fat.

Bottom line, curbing Big Food and how they advertise is, at best, going to have a miniscule effect on how kids eat. The only way kids will develop better eating habits is if their parents teach them.

BobbyD -- thanks for your perspective on this. I'd like to talk more off line because the food supply is something that I have been learning a lot about -- and I clearly need to learn more.

Let's have lunch sometime soon. I'd be happy to talk more about this issue, especially because I think some people in the media stretch the truth about Big Food just to get headlines. Perfect example is the recent hoopla regarding "pink slime" served in schools, which is nothing but lean beef.

[hands11]

how crazy is this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... match.html

[dandridge 10]

I think the pseudointellectual streams of media of the food industry (Michael Pollan, Food Inc. Fast Food Nation, etc.) are biased in one direction and nobody really speaks up for ConAgra, Sysco, etc. Clearly Big Food can't be pure evil like Big Tobacco, but at the same time they're no saints either. As with all things, there is no simple answer or else very smart people in the industry would have glommed onto it and exploited it fully.

I do ask Dandridge10 though, as an insider, nutritious food may be readily available and affordable but it's still more expensive than the high-fat, high calorie, low (other) nutrient options. Compare a 2L of Coke to a L of Simply Orange. Or a 20p nugget to a Chopt salad.

p.s. Fish, if you're interested in another book of similar vein to Fast Food Nation or Omnivore's Dilemma, I'm currently reading "An Economist Gets Lunch" by Tyler Cowen (local guy, prof at Mason).



p.p.s, it'd be weird if he reads this board, no?

There is a whole lot that goes into the price of food, such as supply and demand, cost of raw materials, labor involved in picking/processing food, environmental factors (especially for fruits and vegetables), brand name vs. generic store brands, species of meat etc. I'm not going to get into explaining why a particular food costs more than another food simply because too many factors are involved. For every example you can give of a high fat-high calorie meal that is less expensive than a nutritious meal, I can give you an example of where it goes the other way.

Poultry is generally cheaper than meat products. Low brand Canned vegetables and fruit are sometimes cheaper than fresh. Rice is generally cheap. You can make a lot of nutritious meals with chicken or turkey, canned or fresh vegetables or fruit, brown rice, and water out of the tap. Problem is...it just doesn't taste as good as a fatty burger, fries, and a large coke. That's what kids want because it tastes good. Unfortunately, that is what most parents allow their kids to eat. Look at most of your friends and family with young kids and look to see what their parents are feeding their kids. Most are feeding their kids junk not because it is cheaper; they are feeding their kids junk because that is what their kids want because it tastes good and the parents don't want to say no.

My best friend is a perfect example. His kid eats nothing but hotdogs, candy, and potato chips. When he sees my son eat turkey sandwiches and carrots for lunch, he comments that he wished his kid wasn't such a "picky eater." My comment has always been, "my kid would be a picky eater too if he knew he could PICK any food he wanted."

Ok, enough of my soapbox. Back to the political banter!

[hands11]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArC7XarwnWI&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]




[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aBaX9GPSaQ[/youtube]

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

We need a cultural shift. People need to be educated about what constitutes proper nutrition. Incentives need to be put in place for contributing to public health by way of offering healthy foods -- even if the opposite is true in the way of strict regulation of Big Agra and Big Food -- Monsanto, PepsiCo, Kraft, etc.

Obama has failed in this regard by appointing the former head of Monstanto to run the FDA. Both parties are bought by these guys. It really saddens and angers me. As long as the food supply is allowed to be corrupted, and the poor's primary access to food is to crap with no nutritional value, and Big Food is allowed unfettered access to kids' impressionable brains via TV ads, schools. etc., Obamacare will be a but a band-aid on a gunshot wound.

We need a culture shift, period. Sports are not a passion of everyone. Physical fitness is something that school systems are not funding sufficiently. My fifth graded has PE once a week. My seventh grader got to take it one quarter as an elective. Meanwhile, the school curriculum places a lot of emphasis on excessive homework. My middle schooler seems to be reading more than I had to in grad school.

fisher, politics sickens me. The reality of who's in power and what is really going on is something you and others can keep up with. The Barney simple problem is we are more obese because we are on the computer too much or working too darned hard. Companies care about their bottom line and the only reason they make health of their employees a priority is to squeeze more productivity out of them.

Speaking of impressionable brains and TV adds, I went through a McDonald's drive thru today. For the first time ever, I saw on the drive thru menu the calorie counts of all the numbered meals. Sandwiches that ran around 750 calories and the meals in the 1300 range was sobering to see, but very refreshingly different.

Change takes a while, but I think it will happen. I think colleges need to have a recreational component added beyond just the credits needed in the typical liberal arts fields. People are graduating and not getting jobs. Why not nurture the body and the man with fun classes, like yoga or photography? People need to stay active and stay fit, too.

fish, sorry if this had nothing to do with Obamacare or Monsanto. I think as a society we need to enjoy life more, in general.

[hands11]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvPQTVc80OA[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi2HSk7csJs[/youtube]

Mitt really is a total loser. Is this what he thinks impresses people ? Childish twists on works that are lies?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY47hA2BfDI&feature=related[/youtube]

This is exactly what is needed. Obama needs to uses the people even more to put pressure on the House and Senate. It takes both. Inside negotiations and outside pressure. Isn't that what the Tea Party did. Isn't that was Occupy Wall street provided. They put the 99% issue on the table. Bush was every effective at doing this even if he lied us into a war doing it. He was effective.

Mitt needs more then childish talking points. It is really embarrassing. It really worries me that people would actually vote for this douche. He represents everything you don't want in a president.

[popper]

Regarding food. i have been a vegetable gardener for many years. I usually grow much of what my family needs plus I give away 50-200 lbs of crops to my neighbors each season. I used to can but too lazy nowadays. The grocery store veggies are tasteless in my opinion and probably not very nutritious.

I used to hunt / fish for meat. Not because I needed to but because I prefer the taste of wild game and fish. Goose, duck, rabbit, quail, dove, squirrel, deer, eel, crab, rockfish, etc.

I once had a staff meeting with about fifteen young professionals sitting around the conference table. I asked, "raise your hand if you hunt", no reaction, "raise your hand if you fish", no reaction, "raise your hand if you farm", no reaction. I asked them what they would do if the power went out and 7-11 and the grocery store closed for some extended period of time. They shrugged and said, "I guess we would starve".

Isn't this mentality indicative of what happened during Katrina? Weren't the residents of New Orleans expecting someone else or the govt. to save their as*es?

[montestewart]

^
Yeah, it wasn't like there was a shortage of game and arable land in New Orleans, and definitely no shortage of guns, and as the picture below shows, the streets were filled with fish. People are so lame.

[popper]

^
Yeah, it wasn't like there was a shortage of game and arable land in New Orleans, and definitely no shortage of guns, and as the picture below shows, the streets were filled with fish. People are so lame.

Great picture monte and humorous as well but I guess you missed the point (or maybe not). In retrospect, perhaps you are right, there is nothing they could have done for themselves. Not evacuate as advised, not store food and water as advised and most important, surrender to the all-knowing benevolence of our dear leaders.

[montestewart]

Just a little light reading regarding the Katrina evacuation. It's rarely as simple as it's sold to be. Ghettos are not all the same, but they generally have a few things in common, physical, economic, and political isolation among them.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=4860776
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854973/
http://www.homeland1.com/evacuation/art ... -and-Rita/
http://www.sc.edu/katrinacrisis/elder.shtml

I have a friend who was in New Orleans through the hurricane. He had a business that he wanted to secure from looters, and since it was on relatively high ground and was fairly easily secured (and he was well armed and had food and water), he elected to do so. Afterwards, the city's buses were surrounded by water, and his 30 foot truck turned out to be the largest civilian transport in the city, and he and his truck were "deputized" by the National Guard to transport people to the Superdome. (What a mistake that turned out to be.) He confirmed a lot of ignorant people wondering when the government was going to come and save them, but more than that, he confirmed the poorest, most isolated, and most vulnerable people in the city apparently abandoned by city, state, and federal authorities, and by their better off neighbors. Maybe a wake up call for them, but maybe also a sad statement about the society they hoped they were a part of.

PS: I just love that picture.

[montestewart]

Popper, if you're preparing for a post-apocalyptic scenario, one book I highly recommend (if you don't already have it) is Henley's Book of Formulas. A big fat reference for making everything from developing fluid to gunpowder to medicine to fertilizer. Tools and skills are important, but a few reference books can't hurt.

[popper]

Popper, if you're preparing for a post-apocalyptic scenario, one book I highly recommend (if you don't already have it) is Henley's Book of Formulas. A big fat reference for making everything from developing fluid to gunpowder to medicine to fertilizer. Tools and skills are important, but a few reference books can't hurt.

Thanks Monte. I will get that book. I made gunpowder, napom, pipebo*bs, etc. as a young lad but there is much to learn from the experts. Very interesting story about your friend in New Orleans. My wife and kids couldn't survive 15 minutes in a crisis situation and that worries me. My health is not great and I'm pre-planning my funeral right now (can you believe a simple cremation is $3600) so I hope I can at least collect some decent survival resources before I take the gas pipe.

[popper]

I forget who said it but one of my favorites quotes is "life is comedy to those who think and tragedy to those who feel".

I can't help but laugh at the comedy which is the human condition. Ignorance, stupidity, greed and cruelty rule the day and the millennium. The U.S. will end up just like every other failed civilization throughout history. Broke and devoid of any commitment to objective truth. At least the Spartans went down with a fight.

[montestewart]

I forget who said it but one of my favorites quotes is "life is comedy to those who think and tragedy to those who feel".

I can't help but laugh at the comedy which is the human condition. Ignorance, stupidity, greed and cruelty rule the day and the millennium. The U.S. will end up just like every other failed civilization throughout history. Broke and devoid of any commitment to objective truth. At least the Spartans went down with a fight.

Popper, it's best for your equilibrium to both think and feel.

I'm somewhat lucky in that my mother's second marriage gave me a stepfather that taught me to use tools, fix things (cars and such), and understand physical and mechanical principles (he was an engineer and also taught math and science). He even taught me about guns and taught me to drive when I was twelve. I'm further lucky to have a wife that, growing up in a sexist world, was basically forced to teach herself all those things, because what man would teach her. She owned an auto repair shop for years, does plumbing, electrical, can pour concrete, work wood, and pretty much figure out how to make, repair, refinish, or destroy anything, as the case calls for. I worked with an organic farming collective for many years, and we had our own urban garden for many years as well, so maybe between us we have more skills and experience to enable us to adjust to drastic changes. And we have a lot of plastic and duct tape. Lots of duct tape. We even have a little gold.

I really don't want to have to rely on any of that stuff. I don't want to be standing in the forest as the sun goes down, reading a worn copy of Stalking the Wild Asparagus to see if those berries are OK to eat.

PS: My wife made a coffin for a friend of ours. He died on Monday night and we delivered a coffin to the funeral home Friday morning. We had no need to economize on his funeral, but it was my impression that we could have gotten it for much cheaper. Here's a start:
http://www.dfsmemorials.com

Our ethos is to de-mystify the costs and services surrounding funeral services. Our network consists of local independent family-owned funeral providers throughout the US and Canada. We aim to offer complete visibility in the service's offered and in the price. A Simple Cremation is just that – the price quoted by each funeral provider in each area is exactly what you can expect to pay. Our providers have been carefully selected for the DFS network because they can fulfill our service promise.

At least on its face, this network seems to be calling out the funeral industry and trying to capture the business of people that truly want a simple, inexpensive funeral. There must be others out there. A prudent consumer and an honest merchant are a perfect match.

[hands11]

Regarding food. i have been a vegetable gardener for many years. I usually grow much of what my family needs plus I give away 50-200 lbs of crops to my neighbors each season. I used to can but too lazy nowadays. The grocery store veggies are tasteless in my opinion and probably not very nutritious.

I used to hunt / fish for meat. Not because I needed to but because I prefer the taste of wild game and fish. Goose, duck, rabbit, quail, dove, squirrel, deer, eel, crab, rockfish, etc.

I once had a staff meeting with about fifteen young professionals sitting around the conference table. I asked, "raise your hand if you hunt", no reaction, "raise your hand if you fish", no reaction, "raise your hand if you farm", no reaction. I asked them what they would do if the power went out and 7-11 and the grocery store closed for some extended period of time. They shrugged and said, "I guess we would starve".

Isn't this mentality indicative of what happened during Katrina? Weren't the residents of New Orleans expecting someone else or the govt. to save their as*es?

Let me know if you need any help farming. I would love to learn some stuff and I like getting my hands dirty. I worked construction for a good bit while going through school. Now I just sit behind computer 5 days a week figuring out **** that doesn't really move me anymore.

Life takes funny little twists. If thing happened just a little differently then they did, I would be farming 600 archers in Florida.

[popper]

Regarding food. i have been a vegetable gardener for many years. I usually grow much of what my family needs plus I give away 50-200 lbs of crops to my neighbors each season. I used to can but too lazy nowadays. The grocery store veggies are tasteless in my opinion and probably not very nutritious.

I used to hunt / fish for meat. Not because I needed to but because I prefer the taste of wild game and fish. Goose, duck, rabbit, quail, dove, squirrel, deer, eel, crab, rockfish, etc.

I once had a staff meeting with about fifteen young professionals sitting around the conference table. I asked, "raise your hand if you hunt", no reaction, "raise your hand if you fish", no reaction, "raise your hand if you farm", no reaction. I asked them what they would do if the power went out and 7-11 and the grocery store closed for some extended period of time. They shrugged and said, "I guess we would starve".

Isn't this mentality indicative of what happened during Katrina? Weren't the residents of New Orleans expecting someone else or the govt. to save their as*es?

Let me know if you need any help farming. I would love to learn some stuff and I like getting my hands dirty. I worked construction for a good bit while going through school. Now I just sit behind computer 5 days a week figuring out **** that doesn't really move me anymore.

Life takes funny little twists. If thing happened just a little differently then they did, I would be farming 600 archers in Florida.

I'd be happy to have you Hands. The best time to learn/get started is Spring. A couple of half days on the weekend leading up to planting is all it takes. You can then come over anytime you want to harvest all the way through October. You'll end up with at least 100 lbs of organic veggies. Let me know what you like. This year I grew: pickling cucumbers, tomatoes, jalepenos, cayenne pepper, pole beans, bell peppers, basil, thyme, parsley, onions, chives, kholrabi, and lots of lettuce (I'm forgetting some stuff, I'm sure).

[popper]

I forget who said it but one of my favorites quotes is "life is comedy to those who think and tragedy to those who feel".

I can't help but laugh at the comedy which is the human condition. Ignorance, stupidity, greed and cruelty rule the day and the millennium. The U.S. will end up just like every other failed civilization throughout history. Broke and devoid of any commitment to objective truth. At least the Spartans went down with a fight.

Popper, it's best for your equilibrium to both think and feel.

I'm somewhat lucky in that my mother's second marriage gave me a stepfather that taught me to use tools, fix things (cars and such), and understand physical and mechanical principles (he was an engineer and also taught math and science). He even taught me about guns and taught me to drive when I was twelve. I'm further lucky to have a wife that, growing up in a sexist world, was basically forced to teach herself all those things, because what man would teach her. She owned an auto repair shop for years, does plumbing, electrical, can pour concrete, work wood, and pretty much figure out how to make, repair, refinish, or destroy anything, as the case calls for. I worked with an organic farming collective for many years, and we had our own urban garden for many years as well, so maybe between us we have more skills and experience to enable us to adjust to drastic changes. And we have a lot of plastic and duct tape. Lots of duct tape. We even have a little gold.

I really don't want to have to rely on any of that stuff. I don't want to be standing in the forest as the sun goes down, reading a worn copy of Stalking the Wild Asparagus to see if those berries are OK to eat.

PS: My wife made a coffin for a friend of ours. He died on Monday night and we delivered a coffin to the funeral home Friday morning. We had no need to economize on his funeral, but it was my impression that we could have gotten it for much cheaper. Here's a start:
http://www.dfsmemorials.com

Our ethos is to de-mystify the costs and services surrounding funeral services. Our network consists of local independent family-owned funeral providers throughout the US and Canada. We aim to offer complete visibility in the service's offered and in the price. A Simple Cremation is just that – the price quoted by each funeral provider in each area is exactly what you can expect to pay. Our providers have been carefully selected for the DFS network because they can fulfill our service promise.

At least on its face, this network seems to be calling out the funeral industry and trying to capture the business of people that truly want a simple, inexpensive funeral. There must be others out there. A prudent consumer and an honest merchant are a perfect match.

Plastic and duct tape - a survivalist's best friend without question. Hell, I could probably piece together a crude coffin with it if I had to.

[Zonkerbl]

Just this summer learned that the reason all the plants in my backyard were dying was because slugs were coming out at night and eating them all. My mom told me to dig a hole and put a cup of beer in it -- I drowned about thirty slugs that way, yuck.

We're pretty good at growing basil and oregano and stuff, but would need to grow about ten times as much to use it every day. In three years I think we've harvested about ten tomatoes. This year we tried squash but they all died. Back yard doesn't get much sunlight, and we don't know the hell what we're doing. Bought a blueberry bush and got a few blueberries a week from it, I consider that a success.