All Lin talk here

[MeloTime]

Do you believe that Lin will be a star point guard like many believe?

Last month I wrote an article (http://www.thedreamshake.com/2012/8/23/3262921/jeremy-lin-is-no-fluke-continued) a while back that had compiled a list of all players in the past 27 years that for 26 or more straight games, equaled or surpassed Lin's per 36 averages. Long story short, it's a pretty impressive list.

Well I recently wrote another one (http://www.thedreamshake.com/2012/9/21/3367828/jeremy-lin-and-historical-comparisons) that compiles a list of all players over the past 27 years that averaged within +/-10% of Lin's per 36 averages, and did so before the age of 25. It also looks at how those players performed after 3 years.

great articles .... Lin will definitely be a solid starter in this league. I have him at 16 ppg 8 apg 4 rpg 2 spy

[Capn'O]

There really is no argument that supports the notion that Felton is a better PG than Lin. The only thing one can point to is Lin's small sample size.

Can Felton be a better fit in terms of role and taking care of the ball? Maybe. But Lin is just better overall.

I think people are saying this to justify the move. I like Felton (and frankly, the other signings) but the single best player the Knicks had a reasonable chance of signing (never bought into Nash) was Lin. We know he worked well with Stat and Tyson and I think would have found a way with Melo. Melo plays just fine with Bron and Chris Paul. He would have handled Jeremy Lin.

I don't really get it from Houston's POV either. They might be scrappy and fun to watch but I think they're going to be a really bad team. A lot of duplication and not a lot of talent. Morey blew his big chance, imo. I don't think Dwight will bite. Maybe others will come to play with Lin? Who knows...

[Phish Tank]

in the end, as much as I hate seeing Lin leave... I have come to terms with what happened and then proposed this question:

Is Jeremy Lin worth 14.5 million dollars in three years? That's the real question. If so, then we also have to ask: Is Jeremy Lin worth spending these extra millions of dollars in luxury tax?

Then we also have to ask:

Can we win a championship in 3 years with Jeremy Lin/Melo/Stat/Iman Shumpert/the corpse of Jason Kidd/Novak/any other low first round pick or second round pick we get in the upcoming years?

If the last question is yes, then we should have signed him regardless of the luxury tax hit.

To be realistic, however, I don't think having Jeremy Lin will help lead us to a championship. Also, the luxury tax hit of his salary in year 3 exceeds the benefits of keeping him around.

Unfortunately, the players we have around us and the current structure of the NBA does not bode well for ball-dominant PGs. If history remains true, elite PGs usually do not go far in the playoffs (Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Shaq, Tim Duncan, etc. all say hi). Also, Woodson's system is not dependent on a ball-dominant PG. If we are going to win, the ball is NOT going to be in Felton's hands during crunch time.

So is it worth it to have a maxed out Lin come year 3, where Melo and Amare are still in their prime years? Nope.

Forget all star selections, fan votes, and popularity things with Linsanity. The Knicks will still remain a powerhouse economically with or without linsanity and with/without the brooklyn nets.

Lin was just not worth the money, especially come year 3.

[omerome]

I think people are saying this to justify the move. I like Felton (and frankly, the other signings) but the single best player the Knicks had a reasonable chance of signing (never bought into Nash) was Lin. We know he worked well with Stat and Tyson and I think would have found a way with Melo. Melo plays just fine with Bron and Chris Paul. He would have handled Jeremy Lin.

I don't really get it from Houston's POV either. They might be scrappy and fun to watch but I think they're going to be a really bad team. A lot of duplication and not a lot of talent. Morey blew his big chance, imo. I don't think Dwight will bite. Maybe others will come to play with Lin? Who knows...

Actually I didn't think he really had a good chemistry with Amar'e. Maybe it was the struggles Amar'e had but the pick and roll was hardly there between the two. It was with Chandler that he had good chemistry with. While good, Chandler isn't an offensive player nor would I want him given the ball in crunch time to score points.

Lin would of given us another player who is a threat offensively but even he was with faults. He had the tendency to turn the ball over a lot and isn't really a good defender. He isn't afraid to take the big shot which is nice though. However, I notice that people like to bring up the Toronto game but we would of lost if Shumpert didn't guard Calderon at the end, he was killing us.

I'm sure he will do well in Houston (stats wise) though but yeah, I doubt that team will win many games.

[21shumpshumpst]

Melo plays just fine with Bron and Chris Paul. He would have handled Jeremy Lin.

WTF? So now you are putting Lin in the same class as Chris Paul and Bron? The best players in the league and the best pg in the league?

ANYBODY would play just fine with those two.
Some of you are just delusional.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

in the end, as much as I hate seeing Lin leave... I have come to terms with what happened and then proposed this question:

Is Jeremy Lin worth 14.5 million dollars in three years? That's the real question. If so, then we also have to ask: Is Jeremy Lin worth spending these extra millions of dollars in luxury tax?

Then we also have to ask:

Can we win a championship in 3 years with Jeremy Lin/Melo/Stat/Iman Shumpert/the corpse of Jason Kidd/Novak/any other low first round pick or second round pick we get in the upcoming years?

If the last question is yes, then we should have signed him regardless of the luxury tax hit.

To be realistic, however, I don't think having Jeremy Lin will help lead us to a championship. Also, the luxury tax hit of his salary in year 3 exceeds the benefits of keeping him around.

Unfortunately, the players we have around us and the current structure of the NBA does not bode well for ball-dominant PGs. If history remains true, elite PGs usually do not go far in the playoffs (Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Shaq, Tim Duncan, etc. all say hi). Also, Woodson's system is not dependent on a ball-dominant PG. If we are going to win, the ball is NOT going to be in Felton's hands during crunch time.

So is it worth it to have a maxed out Lin come year 3, where Melo and Amare are still in their prime years? Nope.

Forget all star selections, fan votes, and popularity things with Linsanity. The Knicks will still remain a powerhouse economically with or without linsanity and with/without the brooklyn nets.

Lin was just not worth the money, especially come year 3.

Absolutely. I agree that's the key question, and the answer is yes, therefore we should have re-signed Lin.

[knicksnyk]

Melo plays just fine with Bron and Chris Paul. He would have handled Jeremy Lin.

WTF? So now you are putting Lin in the same class as Chris Paul and Bron? The best players in the league and the best pg in the league?

ANYBODY would play just fine with those two.
Some of you are just delusional.

your overreacting. i think he is saying that if melo can play with these guys who need the ball in his hands why can't he play with lin.

[knicksnyk]

in the end, as much as I hate seeing Lin leave... I have come to terms with what happened and then proposed this question:

Is Jeremy Lin worth 14.5 million dollars in three years? That's the real question. If so, then we also have to ask: Is Jeremy Lin worth spending these extra millions of dollars in luxury tax?

Then we also have to ask:

Can we win a championship in 3 years with Jeremy Lin/Melo/Stat/Iman Shumpert/the corpse of Jason Kidd/Novak/any other low first round pick or second round pick we get in the upcoming years?

If the last question is yes, then we should have signed him regardless of the luxury tax hit.

To be realistic, however, I don't think having Jeremy Lin will help lead us to a championship. Also, the luxury tax hit of his salary in year 3 exceeds the benefits of keeping him around.

Unfortunately, the players we have around us and the current structure of the NBA does not bode well for ball-dominant PGs. If history remains true, elite PGs usually do not go far in the playoffs (Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Shaq, Tim Duncan, etc. all say hi). Also, Woodson's system is not dependent on a ball-dominant PG. If we are going to win, the ball is NOT going to be in Felton's hands during crunch time.

So is it worth it to have a maxed out Lin come year 3, where Melo and Amare are still in their prime years? Nope.

Forget all star selections, fan votes, and popularity things with Linsanity. The Knicks will still remain a powerhouse economically with or without linsanity and with/without the brooklyn nets.

Lin was just not worth the money, especially come year 3.

the luxury tax had nothing to do with it. he was never a part of there plans from the begining. woodson likes veterans we can see that from the guys he picked up this offseason. woodson doesn't want to develop young guys. even if lin had played 51 games as opposed to 25 he still wouldn't be a knick. has nothing to do with lin being proven or unproven. money is not a factor trust me if the knicks were worried about money they would have negotiated with himm at the begining of free agency and signed him to a cap friendly deal but they didn't. the knicks just wanted to manage pr so they made it about money and sent out misinformation. is felton coming off the worst season of his career worth the contract they gave him? hell no. is kidd worth 9 million over 3 years when he really should be getting the veterans minimum? the knicks overpaid all season they could care less about money.

[Phish Tank]

in the end, as much as I hate seeing Lin leave... I have come to terms with what happened and then proposed this question:

Is Jeremy Lin worth 14.5 million dollars in three years? That's the real question. If so, then we also have to ask: Is Jeremy Lin worth spending these extra millions of dollars in luxury tax?

Then we also have to ask:

Can we win a championship in 3 years with Jeremy Lin/Melo/Stat/Iman Shumpert/the corpse of Jason Kidd/Novak/any other low first round pick or second round pick we get in the upcoming years?

If the last question is yes, then we should have signed him regardless of the luxury tax hit.

To be realistic, however, I don't think having Jeremy Lin will help lead us to a championship. Also, the luxury tax hit of his salary in year 3 exceeds the benefits of keeping him around.

Unfortunately, the players we have around us and the current structure of the NBA does not bode well for ball-dominant PGs. If history remains true, elite PGs usually do not go far in the playoffs (Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Shaq, Tim Duncan, etc. all say hi). Also, Woodson's system is not dependent on a ball-dominant PG. If we are going to win, the ball is NOT going to be in Felton's hands during crunch time.

So is it worth it to have a maxed out Lin come year 3, where Melo and Amare are still in their prime years? Nope.

Forget all star selections, fan votes, and popularity things with Linsanity. The Knicks will still remain a powerhouse economically with or without linsanity and with/without the brooklyn nets.

Lin was just not worth the money, especially come year 3.

the luxury tax had nothing to do with it. he was never a part of there plans from the begining. woodson likes veterans we can see that from the guys he picked up this offseason. woodson doesn't want to develop young guys. even if lin had played 51 games as opposed to 25 he still wouldn't be a knick. has nothing to do with lin being proven or unproven. money is not a factor trust me if the knicks were worried about money they would have negotiated with himm at the begining of free agency and signed him to a cap friendly deal but they didn't. the knicks just wanted to manage pr so they made it about money and sent out misinformation. is felton coming off the worst season of his career worth the contract they gave him? hell no. is kidd worth 9 million over 3 years when he really should be getting the veterans minimum? the knicks overpaid all season they could care less about money.

I think an extra $40-$60 million in additional luxury tax (depending on what article you read) could make a huge difference.

Let's think about it from a basketball and economic perspective:

What is the role of the PG going to be to help the Knicks win a championship? Lemme guess, it should probably be:

1) playing defense
2) facilitating ball movement
3) leadership
4) score when needed

So, we know that Lin can do this, but let me ask the following:

What's the market value for a guy that does those following four things? 2 million, 5 million, 10 million, 15 million?

In my opinion, i'd put my money anywhere from 5-10 million. Here's why:

Look at the elite PGs that are making the most money:

Parker
Rondo
Paul
Rose
Westbrook
Deron

Out of those 6, Parker and Rondo won championships. During Parker's last championship year, he average about 19/6. Offense still revolved around Duncan, and he really didn't dominate the ball like Parker/Ginobili did.

Rondo was a supporting player on the Celtics championship team. When he was only known as a defender/ballhawk. He only later became a better ball distributor.

The other 4 guys are ball-dominant PGs. Guess what's going on with all of them? Paul/Rose/Deron get knocked out of the playoffs by teams such as the Lakers (kobe says hi), and the Heat (lebron says hi). Westbrook made the finals last year, but look what happened to OKC... LeBron shut down Westbrook, Westbrook stopped distributing the ball, and the Heat eventually win.

Notice the trends.... we don't need a 20-10 type of player... one that Lin can potentially be. Can Lin fit in Woodson's system? Sure he can.

But how much value do you put on a guy that will fit into Mike Woodson's system and get you about 15 points/6-7 assists a game? Well you have some PGs like the worn-down Jason Kidd (not the Nets version), Derek Fisher, and a younger Tony Parker (circa 2002) producing those similar stats at salaries almost 1/2 or lower than the max. During this free agency process, a guy named Raymond Felton was available who can put those same amount of stats every game and has shown ,or is willing to learn how to lead as a PG, at 4 million dollars a year. Raymond Felton + Jason Kidd = $7 million dollars. Does Felton have the ability to play on a championship-caliber team like Jeremy Lin? Sure.

So now if you're able to get a player (or players) that can do the same exact thing for half the cost, why spend double? Not saying Lin won't be great, but there are a lot of different factors teams have to take in signing players, especially ones as popular as Lin.



On a side note, there is tremendous risk of paying max dollars to a guy who helped us out for 25 good games. There is a risk the injury doesn't heal properly, he regresses back to being only average, and other factors. Is it worth the risk to pay the max? Gotta consider that too.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

I think an extra $40-$60 million in additional luxury tax (depending on what article you read) could make a huge difference.

Let's think about it from a basketball and economic perspective:

What is the role of the PG going to be to help the Knicks win a championship? Lemme guess, it should probably be:

1) playing defense
2) facilitating ball movement
3) leadership
4) score when needed

So, we know that Lin can do this, but let me ask the following:

What's the market value for a guy that does those following four things? 2 million, 5 million, 10 million, 15 million?

In my opinion, i'd put my money anywhere from 5-10 million. Here's why:

Look at the elite PGs that are making the most money:

Parker
Rondo
Paul
Rose
Westbrook
Deron

Out of those 6, Parker and Rondo won championships. During Parker's last championship year, he average about 19/6. Offense still revolved around Duncan, and he really didn't dominate the ball like Parker/Ginobili did.

Rondo was a supporting player on the Celtics championship team. When he was only known as a defender/ballhawk. He only later became a better ball distributor.

The other 4 guys are ball-dominant PGs. Guess what's going on with all of them? Paul/Rose/Deron get knocked out of the playoffs by teams such as the Lakers (kobe says hi), and the Heat (lebron says hi). Westbrook made the finals last year, but look what happened to OKC... LeBron shut down Westbrook, Westbrook stopped distributing the ball, and the Heat eventually win.

Notice the trends.... we don't need a 20-10 type of player... one that Lin can potentially be. Can Lin fit in Woodson's system? Sure he can.

But how much value do you put on a guy that will fit into Mike Woodson's system and get you about 15 points/6-7 assists a game? Well you have some PGs like the worn-down Jason Kidd (not the Nets version), Derek Fisher, and a younger Tony Parker (circa 2002) producing those similar stats at salaries almost 1/2 or lower than the max. During this free agency process, a guy named Raymond Felton was available who can put those same amount of stats every game and has shown ,or is willing to learn how to lead as a PG, at 4 million dollars a year. Raymond Felton + Jason Kidd = $7 million dollars. Does Felton have the ability to play on a championship-caliber team like Jeremy Lin? Sure.

So now if you're able to get a player (or players) that can do the same exact thing for half the cost, why spend double? Not saying Lin won't be great, but there are a lot of different factors teams have to take in signing players, especially ones as popular as Lin.



On a side note, there is tremendous risk of paying max dollars to a guy who helped us out for 25 good games. There is a risk the injury doesn't heal properly, he regresses back to being only average, and other factors. Is it worth the risk to pay the max? Gotta consider that too.

This is a textbook example of how overrating our stars leads to outrageous conclusions. Melo/Stat are nowhere near KG/Pierce circa 2008 or Duncan/Ginobilli! That's why your Parker/Rondo comparison fails.

[Phish Tank]

I think an extra $40-$60 million in additional luxury tax (depending on what article you read) could make a huge difference.

Let's think about it from a basketball and economic perspective:

What is the role of the PG going to be to help the Knicks win a championship? Lemme guess, it should probably be:

1) playing defense
2) facilitating ball movement
3) leadership
4) score when needed

So, we know that Lin can do this, but let me ask the following:

What's the market value for a guy that does those following four things? 2 million, 5 million, 10 million, 15 million?

In my opinion, i'd put my money anywhere from 5-10 million. Here's why:

Look at the elite PGs that are making the most money:

Parker
Rondo
Paul
Rose
Westbrook
Deron

Out of those 6, Parker and Rondo won championships. During Parker's last championship year, he average about 19/6. Offense still revolved around Duncan, and he really didn't dominate the ball like Parker/Ginobili did.

Rondo was a supporting player on the Celtics championship team. When he was only known as a defender/ballhawk. He only later became a better ball distributor.

The other 4 guys are ball-dominant PGs. Guess what's going on with all of them? Paul/Rose/Deron get knocked out of the playoffs by teams such as the Lakers (kobe says hi), and the Heat (lebron says hi). Westbrook made the finals last year, but look what happened to OKC... LeBron shut down Westbrook, Westbrook stopped distributing the ball, and the Heat eventually win.

Notice the trends.... we don't need a 20-10 type of player... one that Lin can potentially be. Can Lin fit in Woodson's system? Sure he can.

But how much value do you put on a guy that will fit into Mike Woodson's system and get you about 15 points/6-7 assists a game? Well you have some PGs like the worn-down Jason Kidd (not the Nets version), Derek Fisher, and a younger Tony Parker (circa 2002) producing those similar stats at salaries almost 1/2 or lower than the max. During this free agency process, a guy named Raymond Felton was available who can put those same amount of stats every game and has shown ,or is willing to learn how to lead as a PG, at 4 million dollars a year. Raymond Felton + Jason Kidd = $7 million dollars. Does Felton have the ability to play on a championship-caliber team like Jeremy Lin? Sure.

So now if you're able to get a player (or players) that can do the same exact thing for half the cost, why spend double? Not saying Lin won't be great, but there are a lot of different factors teams have to take in signing players, especially ones as popular as Lin.



On a side note, there is tremendous risk of paying max dollars to a guy who helped us out for 25 good games. There is a risk the injury doesn't heal properly, he regresses back to being only average, and other factors. Is it worth the risk to pay the max? Gotta consider that too.

This is a textbook example of how overrating our stars leads to outrageous conclusions. Melo/Stat are nowhere near KG/Pierce circa 2008 or Duncan/Ginobilli! That's why your Parker/Rondo comparison fails.

not really, though i agree with your second sentence. The main point is that a PG carrying your team to the playoffs is not sustainable come playoff time. It's historically true. The problem with our team is that we have no real ball distributors outside our PG in the starting lineup. That's why we'll continue to lose in the playoffs to teams like Miami and why we'd still continue to lose even with Jeremy Lin on our team.

[knicksnyk]

I think an extra $40-$60 million in additional luxury tax (depending on what article you read) could make a huge difference.

Let's think about it from a basketball and economic perspective:

What is the role of the PG going to be to help the Knicks win a championship? Lemme guess, it should probably be:

1) playing defense
2) facilitating ball movement
3) leadership
4) score when needed

So, we know that Lin can do this, but let me ask the following:

What's the market value for a guy that does those following four things? 2 million, 5 million, 10 million, 15 million?

In my opinion, i'd put my money anywhere from 5-10 million. Here's why:

Look at the elite PGs that are making the most money:

Parker
Rondo
Paul
Rose
Westbrook
Deron

Out of those 6, Parker and Rondo won championships. During Parker's last championship year, he average about 19/6. Offense still revolved around Duncan, and he really didn't dominate the ball like Parker/Ginobili did.

Rondo was a supporting player on the Celtics championship team. When he was only known as a defender/ballhawk. He only later became a better ball distributor.

The other 4 guys are ball-dominant PGs. Guess what's going on with all of them? Paul/Rose/Deron get knocked out of the playoffs by teams such as the Lakers (kobe says hi), and the Heat (lebron says hi). Westbrook made the finals last year, but look what happened to OKC... LeBron shut down Westbrook, Westbrook stopped distributing the ball, and the Heat eventually win.

Notice the trends.... we don't need a 20-10 type of player... one that Lin can potentially be. Can Lin fit in Woodson's system? Sure he can.

But how much value do you put on a guy that will fit into Mike Woodson's system and get you about 15 points/6-7 assists a game? Well you have some PGs like the worn-down Jason Kidd (not the Nets version), Derek Fisher, and a younger Tony Parker (circa 2002) producing those similar stats at salaries almost 1/2 or lower than the max. During this free agency process, a guy named Raymond Felton was available who can put those same amount of stats every game and has shown ,or is willing to learn how to lead as a PG, at 4 million dollars a year. Raymond Felton + Jason Kidd = $7 million dollars. Does Felton have the ability to play on a championship-caliber team like Jeremy Lin? Sure.

So now if you're able to get a player (or players) that can do the same exact thing for half the cost, why spend double? Not saying Lin won't be great, but there are a lot of different factors teams have to take in signing players, especially ones as popular as Lin.



On a side note, there is tremendous risk of paying max dollars to a guy who helped us out for 25 good games. There is a risk the injury doesn't heal properly, he regresses back to being only average, and other factors. Is it worth the risk to pay the max? Gotta consider that too.

the 40-60 mill luxury tax figure is blatantly false that isn't how you calculate luxury tax it takes multiple contracts to put a team over luxury tax penalty so you cant just apply the luxury tax to just one player when 4 other guys got them there. use common sense. felton & kidd are a downgrade at the position they aren't an upgrade over lin man. felton is coming off a terrible season. dantoni isnt here anymore & that is where felton had his most sucess & even under dantoni he was average if u look at his FG% in various plays. also that roster isn't here anymore either. everyone assumes felton will go back to what he was under dantoni & yet everyone assumes lin instead of becoming better he gets worse. kidd is old man he is living off his legacy he can't guard anybody & can't penetrate & also he can't score like Lin does. lin scored more jumpers off the dribble in his 25 games than kidd did in the last 3 years. our guard rotation is jacked up and there isn't a risk in paying him anything because it doesn't affect the cap we won his bird rights for a reason.

[BOOMbip]

Last season was Felton's worst in a long time and really if you look at how he was being used by the coach until that coach got fired. Then at how he was used, more like the role he is more effective in, by the new coach his season turned around. After the coach got fired the rest of the season Felton averaged 14.3ppg and 7.6apg.

If Felton provides that to the Knicks making less than MLE money he will be a steal. That's what Lin was giving the Knicks post-Linsanity anyway and that's about what the Knicks need from their PG. I think Lin will be a much better player than Felton in the long run but that doesn't mean the Knicks can't or won't win with Felton over the next three seasons.

Whether the Knicks win a title or not won't be based on if their PG gives them more than 14-7....it will be on Melo and Amar'e.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

\

not really, though i agree with your second sentence. The main point is that a PG carrying your team to the playoffs is not sustainable come playoff time. It's historically true. The problem with our team is that we have no real ball distributors outside our PG in the starting lineup. That's why we'll continue to lose in the playoffs to teams like Miami and why we'd still continue to lose even with Jeremy Lin on our team.

Well we've seen two PG's win Finals MVP in the last 10 years (Parker and Billups). Rondo easily could have won Finals MVP in 2010 had a very close game 7 gone the other way. That's a ratio of 1:5, exactly the ratio of PG's to other positions on the floor. So I'd say PG's are holding their own in the championship department.

Then you have all the pg's that have advanced deep into the playoffs, such as Westbrook, Rose, and Nash.

But if you still think that having an all-star PG is the death blow to a team's title hopes, why don't you show me some of your posts saying we shouldn't sign Steve Nash?

[BOOMbip]

Lin could have easily been a 14-7 PG that the Knicks could win with for the next 2-3 years until the bigger contracts expire. He then would have been ready to take on a larger role along side Melo to be a piece to build around for the next5-7 years. Not sure why the Knicks didn't go that way but I'm under the impression it wasn't about money or even basketball.

[Phish Tank]

\

not really, though i agree with your second sentence. The main point is that a PG carrying your team to the playoffs is not sustainable come playoff time. It's historically true. The problem with our team is that we have no real ball distributors outside our PG in the starting lineup. That's why we'll continue to lose in the playoffs to teams like Miami and why we'd still continue to lose even with Jeremy Lin on our team.

Well we've seen two PG's win Finals MVP in the last 10 years (Parker and Billups). Rondo easily could have won Finals MVP in 2010 had a very close game 7 gone the other way. That's a ratio of 1:5, exactly the ratio of PG's to other positions on the floor. So I'd say PG's are holding their own in the championship department.

Then you have all the pg's that have advanced deep into the playoffs, such as Westbrook, Rose, and Nash.

But if you still think that having an all-star PG is the death blow to a team's title hopes, why don't you show me some of your posts saying we shouldn't sign Steve Nash?

You know what was a common theme with both the Spurs and Pistons teams? Even though they scored little, they played great team basketball. EVERYONE was distributing the ball. You didn't see Billups/Parker go for 10-15 assists every game because you knew his teammates would find other guys when they were open and whatnot.

Sometimes, those type of PGs do not get recognized during voting time because their stats are not sexy. It was only a bit later when the fans realized Billups and Parker's true value to the team and voted them in as reserves.

I hate to say it, but I don't know if our team will ever have that instinct of playing team basketball. Basically, we can have all star PGs (which I have no problem with), but what good does that do come playoff time when teams begin to suffocate on your all-star PG? We'd be screwed and be heading back to page 1.

Basically, I have no problems with all-star PGs. It's just with the structure of our team and the amount of money we'd spend in year 3 on someone who'll only really be a all-star because of fan votes (Jeremy Lin, if you didn't know by now), I have doubts. Has nothing to do with Lin, but with everyone around Lin, who you can't really get rid of at this point.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

You know what was a common theme with both the Spurs and Pistons teams? Even though they scored little, they played great team basketball. EVERYONE was distributing the ball. You didn't see Billups/Parker go for 10-15 assists every game because you knew his teammates would find other guys when they were open and whatnot.

Sometimes, those type of PGs do not get recognized during voting time because their stats are not sexy. It was only a bit later when the fans realized Billups and Parker's true value to the team and voted them in as reserves.

I hate to say it, but I don't know if our team will ever have that instinct of playing team basketball. Basically, we can have all star PGs (which I have no problem with), but what good does that do come playoff time when teams begin to suffocate on your all-star PG? We'd be screwed and be heading back to page 1.

Basically, I have no problems with all-star PGs. It's just with the structure of our team and the amount of money we'd spend in year 3 on someone who'll only really be a all-star because of fan votes (Jeremy Lin, if you didn't know by now), I have doubts. Has nothing to do with Lin, but with everyone around Lin, who you can't really get rid of at this point.

We'd be spending an average of $8m per year over 3 years. You can't just look at year 3 and call him overpaid without acknowledging that he's underpaid in years 1 and 2.

[knicksnyk]

You know what was a common theme with both the Spurs and Pistons teams? Even though they scored little, they played great team basketball. EVERYONE was distributing the ball. You didn't see Billups/Parker go for 10-15 assists every game because you knew his teammates would find other guys when they were open and whatnot.

Sometimes, those type of PGs do not get recognized during voting time because their stats are not sexy. It was only a bit later when the fans realized Billups and Parker's true value to the team and voted them in as reserves.

I hate to say it, but I don't know if our team will ever have that instinct of playing team basketball. Basically, we can have all star PGs (which I have no problem with), but what good does that do come playoff time when teams begin to suffocate on your all-star PG? We'd be screwed and be heading back to page 1.

Basically, I have no problems with all-star PGs. It's just with the structure of our team and the amount of money we'd spend in year 3 on someone who'll only really be a all-star because of fan votes (Jeremy Lin, if you didn't know by now), I have doubts. Has nothing to do with Lin, but with everyone around Lin, who you can't really get rid of at this point.

We'd be spending an average of $8m per year over 3 years. You can't just look at year 3 and call him overpaid without acknowledging that he's underpaid in years 1 and 2.

its obvious why they do that because if they talk about year 1 & year two & him being underpaid they have nothing to stand on so they all talk about is something happening three years from now like they can predict the future to know that Lin would have never improved.

[21shumpshumpst]

its obvious why they do that because if they talk about year 1 & year two & him being underpaid they have nothing to stand on so they all talk about is something happening three years from now like they can predict the future to know that Lin would have never improved.

No one knows if he would have been underpaid or overpaid though. That is where your argument falls flat.

From a basketball standpoint no one knows for sure what he is. We saw a massive upward trend during linsanity followed by a massive downward trend after it.

All you guys want care about is linsanity numbers. And just think absolute best case scenario for him.

In the month of March he had a 1.65 assist to turnover ratio. You know who else had it that bad. Mr ballhog Tyreke Evans.

His shooting percent was 41%.

Here was his shooting percentage vs good teams in March:
Bos - .375
Dal - .308
SA - .467
Philly - .278 (I don't think Philly is all that good but all of you keep thinking they are so I added them)
Chicago - .364
Pacers - .429 (again dont think they are that good but whatever)
Pacers - .600
Philly - .235

Other than the game vs the Pacers and SA he was abysmal.

Is that really the guy you are all whinning we lost? Yeah I am sure he will be a serviceable pg but the way some of you are hyping him up is ridiculous.

One guy "well melo played well with lebron and cp3 so he would play well with Lin". WTF!!!! ANYONE would play well with the best pg in the league and Lebron. Ball dominant or not those guys are hall of famers.
And you compare them to Lin? WTF is wrong with some of you.

Another guy oh yeah 22/9 for Lin next year. In what planet is he as good as CP3 and Derron since they were the only ones to put those numbers up in the last few years.

You guys make it sound like we made some abysmal mistake when if it was a mistake at all it was a small one.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

In the month of March he had a 1.65 assist to turnover ratio. You know who else had it that bad. Mr ballhog Tyreke Evans.

His shooting percent was 41%.

Here was his shooting percentage vs good teams in March:
Bos - .375
Dal - .308
SA - .467
Philly - .278 (I don't think Philly is all that good but all of you keep thinking they are so I added them)
Chicago - .364
Pacers - .429 (again dont think they are that good but whatever)
Pacers - .600
Philly - .235

Other than the game vs the Pacers and SA he was abysmal.

For a guy that gets to the line 5 times a game and hits 85%, I can live with those shooting numbers.