All Lin talk here

[21shumpshumpst]

You are giving me random stats without context. Was this player the teams's first option, second or third? Was he a pg/f/C. Was the player injured or coming back from injury? Did team's constantly double this person and he had scrub teammates or was he just taking bad shots? Did said player have an above average streak which made other teams scout him harder?

This player is a PG, the same age as Lin, but last season was his 4th in the league. He was not injured, and in fact started in all 15 games that his team played in April. I would say he was the 2nd option on his team and they are not scrubs. He also actually shot .492 in March, so you could say that he had an "above average streak" prior, like Lin.

So yes or no, would you want a player on your team who for a month performed as bad if not worse than Lin in March?

What were his numbers in his prior 4 seasons? Has he shown a downward trend?

What about the months of Dec, Jan and Feb. ? What were his stats then?

[21shumpshumpst]

your logic is foolish & ure putting words in my mouth so I know that u dont know what ure talking about. i only care about a players money when it affects the salary cap. lins money doesn't affect our cap so i could care less. in fact the more luxury tax the better ticket prices are atrocious. if melo's contract didn't affect our cap I would have ccared less. if amare's contract didnt affect the cap i wouldnt have cared either. all i care about is the salary cap that is it. luxury tax is not my concern & it shouldnt be ures.

lmao all u can rely on is shooting and assist to turnover ratio lol pathetitc u have no point. and when did i call u a racist? funnny how u assumed that. race does play a part in this entire discussion. never said u or anyone was racist. and my question wasn't even addressed to u.

All I can rely is on shooting in assist to turnover ratio. Yet I have no point when speaking about a PG?
You sir have no clue what you are talking about. Those are the two biggest things for a pg. Running the team (A/TO) and being able to score efficiently (fg%).

Last time I checked Nash was good because he can run a time and his A/TO ratio is incredible. HIs shooting is out of this world. What else does he do well? He can't defend. He doesn't rebound all that well. Yet we still call him one of the best pgs.

Lol at that statement.

[fergushenderson]

What were his numbers in his prior 4 seasons? Has he shown a downward trend?

What about the months of Dec, Jan and Feb. ? What were his stats then?

Just answer the question, dude. You're using one month of data to judge Lin, so following your logic you should be able to judge this player based on one month of data as well, no? So again, yes or no, would you want this player on your team?

[knicksnyk]

1) I am saying it wasn't a franchise altering loss like you guys make it out to be. Was it a loss? Sure. But nowhere near the impact that you guys are talking about.

2) No one is saying that drawing 5fts a game is not good. But to put it in context Rodney Stuckey averaged 6 fts a game in 30 mins.

3) Felon has averaged 4.1 fts a game in his third season. I would say that is close to 5.

1) we let an asset go for nothing and once again downgraded at the pg spot. felton is not the answer. we could have gotten kyle lowry and traded Lin. felton is nediocre to average and has always been mediocre to average.
2) what does rodney stuckey averaging 6fts have to do with Lin lmao who cares what stucky does
3) lmao at 4 is close to 5.

[21shumpshumpst]

What were his numbers in his prior 4 seasons? Has he shown a downward trend?

What about the months of Dec, Jan and Feb. ? What were his stats then?

Just answer the question, dude. You're using one month of data to judge Lin, so following your logic you should be able to judge this player based on one month of data as well, no? So again, yes or no, would you want this player on your team?

No I am using the ONLY two months of data I have to evaluate a player. Which is 14 games in Feb and 13 games in march to evaluate. I saw a spike in his play then a downward spiral vs good teams after he no longer came under the radar.

If I want to evaluate a player I should look at his career as a whole and the whole data I have on him.
If Lin had played a full 4 seasons or all 4 months do you think it would be smart to leave that data out when making a determination on him?

[21shumpshumpst]

1) I am saying it wasn't a franchise altering loss like you guys make it out to be. Was it a loss? Sure. But nowhere near the impact that you guys are talking about.

2) No one is saying that drawing 5fts a game is not good. But to put it in context Rodney Stuckey averaged 6 fts a game in 30 mins.

3) Felon has averaged 4.1 fts a game in his third season. I would say that is close to 5.

1) we let an asset go for nothing and once again downgraded at the pg spot. felton is not the answer. we could have gotten kyle lowry and traded Lin. felton is nediocre to average and has always been mediocre to average.
2) what does rodney stuckey averaging 6fts have to do with Lin lmao who cares what stucky does
3) lmao at 4 is close to 5.

1) Again YOU think we had a huge downgrade. I DON'T. I have put up my stats which clearly show a downward trend in Lin's play. I don't think Felton is a huge downgrade. I think its a net zero change. Because last year was an anomaly of a season for Felton. He was fat and out of shape. That was the first time that happened his whole career.

2) The guy brought up the fact that Lin is good because he gets to the line 5fts a game. Just like before another guy said "oh 4Tos a game is ok for a young pg." Again you have to have context to it. Only reason I brought up stuckey

3) So 2steals a game is not close to 3stls a game? 28pts a game is not close to 29pts a game? 47%fg is not close to 46% a game? Wow.

[bklynstoops]

felton is a downgrade. don't fool yourself. even if you go with what you're admitting that it's currently net zero, when you factor in upside, physical gifts, skills, work ethic, it should've been a no brainer. low risk/high reward. i have no idea what you're arguing.

[knicksnyk]

1) Again YOU think we had a huge downgrade. I DON'T. I have put up my stats which clearly show a downward trend in Lin's play. I don't think Felton is a huge downgrade. I think its a net zero change. Because last year was an anomaly of a season for Felton. He was fat and out of shape. That was the first time that happened his whole career.

felton is fat every season last year wasn't the first time he was fat & out of shape so last year wasn't an anomaly it was the norm for him. that is raymond felton ure making excuses for him. its a double standard with you your biased and ure not even trying to hide it.

[knicksnyk]

felton is a downgrade. don't fool yourself. even if you go with what you're admitting that it's currently net zero, when you factor in upside, physical gifts, skills, work ethic, it should've been a no brainer. low risk/high reward. i have no idea what you're arguing.

because he doesnt want to acknowledge the fact that lin will get better & felton will likely stay the same. just like he doesn't want to acknowlede TS%, RB% BLK% STL% because the statistics are to advanced. everybody assumes irving, rubio will get better but Lin no he will get worse odd that.

[21shumpshumpst]

felton is a downgrade. don't fool yourself. even if you go with what you're admitting that it's currently net zero, when you factor in upside, physical gifts, skills, work ethic, it should've been a no brainer. low risk/high reward. i have no idea what you're arguing.

Again there is nothing to tell me that Lin won't continue to shoot poorly or have high turnover ratio.

You guys are thinking he will incrementally get better each season. I have been watching long enough to know that doesn't always happen with young players. Nothing from him jumped at me to say, he is untouchable, that is a star right there.

There were two things I distinctly remember during linsanity and post.
1) I remember fighting people in other boards about how Lin sucked and was overhyped. I told them that I knew Lin was not as good as the hype but that as knick fan I enjoyed the little ray of sunshine he brought to us.
2) I remember distinctly thinking in March. I don't trust this guy bringing the ball down the court in a high pressure playoff game. I need Baron to get healthy asap.

Not one thing of his play has changed my mind on that. The stats back up what I am saying as well.

[21shumpshumpst]

1) Again YOU think we had a huge downgrade. I DON'T. I have put up my stats which clearly show a downward trend in Lin's play. I don't think Felton is a huge downgrade. I think its a net zero change. Because last year was an anomaly of a season for Felton. He was fat and out of shape. That was the first time that happened his whole career.

felton is fat every season last year wasn't the first time he was fat & out of shape so last year wasn't an anomaly it was the norm for him. that is raymond felton ure making excuses for him. its a double standard with you your biased and ure not even trying to hide it.

Felton was fat during the time he was here with us? That is the first time anyone questioned his conditioning about that season.

[fergushenderson]

No I am using the ONLY two months of data I have to evaluate a player. Which is 14 games in Feb and 13 games in march to evaluate. I saw a spike in his play then a downward spiral vs good teams after he no longer came under the radar.

If I want to evaluate a player I should look at his career as a whole and the whole data I have on him.
If Lin had played a full 4 seasons or all 4 months do you think it would be smart to leave that data out when making a determination on him?

Interesting, so you're saying that one month of games where Lin shot better than this other player is enough data for you to determine that Lin is only "serviceable". But one month of data for this other player is not enough data for you to determine anything. Why is that?

Again, I'm asking you, just pretend that you only have 2 months of data on this other player. How would you evaluate him?
March: .492 FG%, 5.4 AST, 2.6 TO, 2.1 AST/TO ratio
April: .389 FG%, 5.6 AST, 3.3 TO, 1.7 AST/TO ratio

[knicksnyk]

What were his numbers in his prior 4 seasons? Has he shown a downward trend?

What about the months of Dec, Jan and Feb. ? What were his stats then?

Just answer the question, dude. You're using one month of data to judge Lin, so following your logic you should be able to judge this player based on one month of data as well, no? So again, yes or no, would you want this player on your team?

No I am using the ONLY two months of data I have to evaluate a player. Which is 14 games in Feb and 13 games in march to evaluate. I saw a spike in his play then a downward spiral vs good teams after he no longer came under the radar.

If I want to evaluate a player I should look at his career as a whole and the whole data I have on him.
If Lin had played a full 4 seasons or all 4 months do you think it would be smart to leave that data out when making a determination on him?

lol u told me to take out his two great games to prove a point even though i told u that he was not underthe radar for those games at all. he is doing the opposite of what he said. and people are giving him facts and it goes in one ear and out the other. never seen anthing like this before. he says lins upward trend was solely because he was under the radar. he said he had a downward trend against good teams even though against over 500 teams lin averaged 18 & 7. but he doesnt consider the pacers & sixers good eventhough they BEAT us last year. He says the raptors & nets are crap even though they ALSO beat us last year. his logic is convuluted & biased.

[21shumpshumpst]

felton is a downgrade. don't fool yourself. even if you go with what you're admitting that it's currently net zero, when you factor in upside, physical gifts, skills, work ethic, it should've been a no brainer. low risk/high reward. i have no idea what you're arguing.

because he doesnt want to acknowledge the fact that lin will get better & felton will likely stay the same. just like he doesn't want to acknowlede TS%, RB% BLK% STL% because the statistics are to advanced. everybody assumes irving, rubio will get better but Lin no he will get worse odd that.

Irving carried a team on his back for a full season not 10 games. He also has a history of being good in college.

Rubio the same. He has been an olympian and playing professionally since he was a teen.

Both have track records of becoming better and focal points of the team.

Lin doesn't that is the huge difference.

[knicksnyk]

1) Again YOU think we had a huge downgrade. I DON'T. I have put up my stats which clearly show a downward trend in Lin's play. I don't think Felton is a huge downgrade. I think its a net zero change. Because last year was an anomaly of a season for Felton. He was fat and out of shape. That was the first time that happened his whole career.

felton is fat every season last year wasn't the first time he was fat & out of shape so last year wasn't an anomaly it was the norm for him. that is raymond felton ure making excuses for him. its a double standard with you your biased and ure not even trying to hide it.

Felton was fat during the time he was here with us? That is the first time anyone questioned his conditioning about that season.

felton likes to come into season fat because it helps him play stronger he likes to use the season to get in shape. that is a problem with him and has been a problem for years now

[bklynstoops]

felton is a downgrade. don't fool yourself. even if you go with what you're admitting that it's currently net zero, when you factor in upside, physical gifts, skills, work ethic, it should've been a no brainer. low risk/high reward. i have no idea what you're arguing.

Again there is nothing to tell me that Lin won't continue to shoot poorly or have high turnover ratio.

You guys are thinking he will incrementally get better each season. I have been watching long enough to know that doesn't always happen with young players. Nothing from him jumped at me to say, he is untouchable, that is a star right there.

There were two things I distinctly remember during linsanity and post.
1) I remember fighting people in other boards about how Lin sucked and was overhyped. I told them that I knew Lin was not as good as the hype but that as knick fan I enjoyed the little ray of sunshine he brought to us.
2) I remember distinctly thinking in March. I don't trust this guy bringing the ball down the court in a high pressure playoff game. I need Baron to get healthy asap.

Not one thing of his play has changed my mind on that. The stats back up what I am saying as well.

again, by your own admission, you're saying that a 24-yr old guy who had exactly 25 starts in the NBA is a net zero compared to a 7-yr veteran. you'd be on thin ice arguing that the kid doesn't have the work ethic to improve his game. so, what exactly are you arguing? seems to me you have some ax to grind.

[21shumpshumpst]

lol u told me to take out his two great games to prove a point even though i told u that he was not underthe radar for those games at all. he is doing the opposite of what he said. and people are giving him facts and it goes in one ear and out the other. never seen anthing like this before. he says lins upward trend was solely because he was under the radar. he said he had a downward trend against good teams even though against over 500 teams lin averaged 18 & 7. but he doesnt consider the pacers & sixers good eventhough they BEAT us last year. He says the raptors & nets are crap even though they ALSO beat us last year. his logic is convuluted & biased.

Paragraphs are your friend.

He averaged 18/7 with horrible assist to turnover ratio and shooting percentage. How is that helpful to a team as a pg? You are basically shooting a lot to get your points while doing so at a bad clip. Then you make almost as many turnovers as assists? You really think that is helpful to a team?

Give most starting pgs that freedom and they put similar numbers with crappy efficiency.

No the Pacers and Sixers were not good. Why does it matter if they were better than us or not? When did we become the measuring stick of who is good and who is bad?

The Kings were awful but the bobcats were worse. So if Kemba Walker did really well vs the Kings I can't call the Kings a bad team because the bobcats are even worse? What type of logic is that?

[knicksnyk]

felton is a downgrade. don't fool yourself. even if you go with what you're admitting that it's currently net zero, when you factor in upside, physical gifts, skills, work ethic, it should've been a no brainer. low risk/high reward. i have no idea what you're arguing.

because he doesnt want to acknowledge the fact that lin will get better & felton will likely stay the same. just like he doesn't want to acknowlede TS%, RB% BLK% STL% because the statistics are to advanced. everybody assumes irving, rubio will get better but Lin no he will get worse odd that.

Irving carried a team on his back for a full season not 10 games. He also has a history of being good in college.

Rubio the same. He has been an olympian and playing professionally since he was a teen.

Both have track records of becoming better and focal points of the team.

Lin doesn't that is the huge difference.

u dont know what ure saying. kyrie played like 10 college games lol and was still a first round pick. kyrie started in 51 games even if lin played in 51 games people would still b saying he was unproven over a full season. kyrie played well but he had bad games to and kyrie sucks defensively he holds his team back on that score as much as he does carry them with his offense. rubio played overseas it doesnt always translate as semlessly as it does all the time but rubio is nice but funny thing is he TO's the ball over at a greater rate than Lin does. lol so Lin doesnt have a track record of becomign better? he was a completely diofferent player now than he was in GSW he is a lot better now spent the lockout getting in shape as opposed to other players. & lin got better under woodson did he not? his TO's went down his defense & FT shooting improved. wow. this is too funny.

[21shumpshumpst]

felton is a downgrade. don't fool yourself. even if you go with what you're admitting that it's currently net zero, when you factor in upside, physical gifts, skills, work ethic, it should've been a no brainer. low risk/high reward. i have no idea what you're arguing.

Again there is nothing to tell me that Lin won't continue to shoot poorly or have high turnover ratio.

You guys are thinking he will incrementally get better each season. I have been watching long enough to know that doesn't always happen with young players. Nothing from him jumped at me to say, he is untouchable, that is a star right there.

There were two things I distinctly remember during linsanity and post.
1) I remember fighting people in other boards about how Lin sucked and was overhyped. I told them that I knew Lin was not as good as the hype but that as knick fan I enjoyed the little ray of sunshine he brought to us.
2) I remember distinctly thinking in March. I don't trust this guy bringing the ball down the court in a high pressure playoff game. I need Baron to get healthy asap.

Not one thing of his play has changed my mind on that. The stats back up what I am saying as well.

again, by your own admission, you're saying that a 24-yr old guy who had exactly 25 starts in the NBA is a net zero compared to a 7-yr veteran. you'd be on thin ice arguing that the kid doesn't have the work ethic to improve his game. so, what exactly are you arguing? seems to me you have some ax to grind.

This is the thing. I never once said that Felton was going to be amazing here. I think he will be serviceable.

So will Lin in his future. I was not impressed with him last year as much as you guys were.

I have no ax to grind. Everyone on this thread is crying that we lost a key piece of our team. Like now we can't win. What I am saying is the stats don't show that at all. They showed we lost a serviceable pg, not an elite one and we replaced him with another serviceable pg.

Look at my name I love shump. I think he will only get better. But if he got traded do you really think I am going to whine and moan about 'OMG WE ARE DOOMED WE CAN'T WIN ANYMORE". No. I know Shump will never be a superstar or perennial all star. So in my mind I will look for another guard who gives me what Shump gives me. Which is what we did in this scenarior.

[knicksnyk]

lol u told me to take out his two great games to prove a point even though i told u that he was not underthe radar for those games at all. he is doing the opposite of what he said. and people are giving him facts and it goes in one ear and out the other. never seen anthing like this before. he says lins upward trend was solely because he was under the radar. he said he had a downward trend against good teams even though against over 500 teams lin averaged 18 & 7. but he doesnt consider the pacers & sixers good eventhough they BEAT us last year. He says the raptors & nets are crap even though they ALSO beat us last year. his logic is convuluted & biased.

Paragraphs are your friend.

He averaged 18/7 with horrible assist to turnover ratio and shooting percentage. How is that helpful to a team as a pg? You are basically shooting a lot to get your points while doing so at a bad clip. Then you make almost as many turnovers as assists? You really think that is helpful to a team?

Give most starting pgs that freedom and they put similar numbers with crappy efficiency.

No the Pacers and Sixers were not good. Why does it matter if they were better than us or not? When did we become the measuring stick of who is good and who is bad?

The Kings were awful but the bobcats were worse. So if Kemba Walker did really well vs the Kings I can't call the Kings a bad team because the bobcats are even worse? What type of logic is that?

lmao & he also averaged 18 & 8 with a great TS%, BLK%, STl% & TRB%. he scored jumpers off the dribble at an insane clip had the sense enough to know that when his shots werent falling go to the FT line. even with his TO's our team got better he was setting us up for high percentage shots. in fact under Lin we score more closer to the rim than before. in fact he was the best pg in the NBA at setting up teammates for those high percentage shots. i dont know what player u are describing because that wasn't the lin that played on the knicks but i am not surprised ure biased. & u can't say that the pacer & sixers aren't good teams when the knicks lost to them on multiple occasions. until we start beating them on consistent basis u can't say we are better than them & that they aren't good.