All Lin talk here

[knicksnyk]

This is the thing. I never once said that Felton was going to be amazing here. I think he will be serviceable.

So will Lin in his future. I was not impressed with him last year as much as you guys were.

I have no ax to grind. Everyone on this thread is crying that we lost a key piece of our team. Like now we can't win. What I am saying is the stats don't show that at all. They showed we lost a serviceable pg, not an elite one and we replaced him with another serviceable pg.

Look at my name I love shump. I think he will only get better. But if he got traded do you really think I am going to whine and moan about 'OMG WE ARE DOOMED WE CAN'T WIN ANYMORE". No. I know Shump will never be a superstar or perennial all star. So in my mind I will look for another guard who gives me what Shump gives me. Which is what we did in this scenarior.

So why will shump only get better and Lin wont. this is insane. so lin will remain servicable & shump will get better. & u can see the future to know that shump wont b a superstar or a perenial all star & no that lin will just be servicable? lmao wow. Once again nobody said we can't win anymore we are doomed because we weren't winning anyway with or without lin lmao. so ure arguing against something that never happened. u do have an axe to grind.

A

[bklynstoops]

again, by your own admission, you're saying that a 24-yr old guy who had exactly 25 starts in the NBA is a net zero compared to a 7-yr veteran. you'd be on thin ice arguing that the kid doesn't have the work ethic to improve his game. so, what exactly are you arguing? seems to me you have some ax to grind.

This is the thing. I never once said that Felton was going to be amazing here. I think he will be serviceable.

So will Lin in his future. I was not impressed with him last year as much as you guys were.

I have no ax to grind. Everyone on this thread is crying that we lost a key piece of our team. Like now we can't win. What I am saying is the stats don't show that at all. They showed we lost a serviceable pg, not an elite one and we replaced him with another serviceable pg.

Look at my name I love shump. I think he will only get better. But if he got traded do you really think I am going to whine and moan about 'OMG WE ARE DOOMED WE CAN'T WIN ANYMORE". No. I know Shump will never be a superstar or perennial all star. So in my mind I will look for another guard who gives me what Shump gives me. Which is what we did in this scenarior.

so fine, you don't think Felton is going to be anything but serviceable. At net zero, Lin would've been just as serviceable (personally I still think he brings more to the table than Felton right now), but he's 24 and he's going to improve. Why would anyone not want the option that's younger, has a better work ethic, has better upside, and has already shown flashes of brilliance? It should've been a no brainer considering we're capped out anyway for the next three years.

strange that you think shump will only get better, but lin will only get worse.

[adrenaLINe]

unless ure dolan, his wife or his accountant u shouldnt care less about the luxury tax. also the reason why the luxury tax is so massive is because oif melo amare & tysons contracts. lets say we move one of our big 3 our liuxury tax three years from now substantially dedecreases but as fans why do u CARE about anything that doesn't affect the cap.

So to recap. If we overspend for other players the whole board goes up in arms about our salary cap and our luxury tax. But when it comes to Lin then its ok. Duly noted.

ummm dude... I remember these guys going over this with you... a few weeks back

none of them consider Lin to be the savior of the team...

and yes you overspent for other players in the past... so why not Lin... you were already over the cap anyways...

and worst case... is you could have traded Lin as an expiring contract...

for the longest time... my sig was for Lin not to sign a long term contract... with the Knicks...

from a personal point of view and Lin's development... I could not be more happy...

and yes... Felton is a better fit for the Knicks... (as in a PG to give the stars the ball and get out of the way)

but to let a popular Fan favorite, with upside potential, go for basically nothing... was a stupid move...

i can understand why the Knicks did it, and agree with there reasons that I think they did it... but it was still a stupid move

you can talk shiet all you want... but Lin came out with his side of the story,...

and the Knicks org has not...said much

their silence speaks volumes to me... it should too the haters.. about how things went down...

[BOOMbip]

Knicks record with Lin playing major minutes which includes Linsanity under both coaches:

16-10

Knicks record with Woodson as coach and after Lin went down where the PGs were then Davis and Bibby:

12-5


Knicks record with Lin as PG and D"Antoni as coach:

10-9

Knicks record with Woodson as coach and anyone playing PG:

18-6

Knicks record with Amar'e and Melo playing together and Woodson coach:

8-2

Knicks record with Amar'e and Melo playing together and D'Antoni coach:

10-19


Anything to be learned from these regular season records from last season?

Lin didn't save the season, Woodson did.

Knicks had a better winning % with Woodson as coach and with anyone playing PG than just with Lin playing PG alone and either coaches.

Melo and Amar'e can play together as long as D'Antoni isn't the coach.

D'Antoni can't get a team to win consistently, not even with Lin.....unless Nash is the PG of course.

[knicksnyk]

No I am using the ONLY two months of data I have to evaluate a player. Which is 14 games in Feb and 13 games in march to evaluate. I saw a spike in his play then a downward spiral vs good teams after he no longer came under the radar.

If I want to evaluate a player I should look at his career as a whole and the whole data I have on him.
If Lin had played a full 4 seasons or all 4 months do you think it would be smart to leave that data out when making a determination on him?

Interesting, so you're saying that one month of games where Lin shot better than this other player is enough data for you to determine that Lin is only "serviceable". But one month of data for this other player is not enough data for you to determine anything. Why is that?

Again, I'm asking you, just pretend that you only have 2 months of data on this other player. How would you evaluate him?
March: .492 FG%, 5.4 AST, 2.6 TO, 2.1 AST/TO ratio
April: .389 FG%, 5.6 AST, 3.3 TO, 1.7 AST/TO ratio

still hasn't answered the question lol. not surprised at all.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Knicks record with Lin playing major minutes which includes Linsanity under both coaches:

16-10

Knicks record with Woodson as coach and after Lin went down where the PGs were then Davis and Bibby:

12-5


Knicks record with Lin as PG and D"Antoni as coach:

10-9

Knicks record with Woodson as coach and anyone playing PG:

18-6

Knicks record with Amar'e and Melo playing together and Woodson coach:

8-2

Knicks record with Amar'e and Melo playing together and D'Antoni coach:

10-19


Anything to be learned from these regular season records from last season?

Lin didn't save the season, Woodson did.

Knicks had a better winning % with Woodson as coach and with anyone playing PG than just with Lin playing PG alone and either coaches.

Melo and Amar'e can play together as long as D'Antoni isn't the coach.

D'Antoni can't get a team to win consistently, not even with Lin.....unless Nash is the PG of course.

You missed one:

Knicks record with Lin as pg and Woodson as coach + Melo and Amare -

6-1

That was our best stretch of the season and maybe the best the Knicks have looked in a long long time. They were blowing teams out.

Still doesn't make sense why we broke that up. The TEAM looked pretty good then.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

You guys are thinking he will incrementally get better each season. I have been watching long enough to know that doesn't always happen with young players. Nothing from him jumped at me to say, he is untouchable, that is a star right there.

That's your argument in a nutshell... Lin might not improve, therefore... what?

I'm still not sure what your conclusion is, other than that the most optimistic minority of Lin fans are delusional to think he had superstar/HOF potential.

[BOOMbip]

Knicks record with Lin playing major minutes which includes Linsanity under both coaches:

16-10

Knicks record with Woodson as coach and after Lin went down where the PGs were then Davis and Bibby:

12-5


Knicks record with Lin as PG and D"Antoni as coach:

10-9

Knicks record with Woodson as coach and anyone playing PG:

18-6

Knicks record with Amar'e and Melo playing together and Woodson coach:

8-2

Knicks record with Amar'e and Melo playing together and D'Antoni coach:

10-19


Anything to be learned from these regular season records from last season?

Lin didn't save the season, Woodson did.

Knicks had a better winning % with Woodson as coach and with anyone playing PG than just with Lin playing PG alone and either coaches.

Melo and Amar'e can play together as long as D'Antoni isn't the coach.

D'Antoni can't get a team to win consistently, not even with Lin.....unless Nash is the PG of course.

You missed one:

Knicks record with Lin as pg and Woodson as coach -

6-1

That was our best stretch of the season and maybe the best the Knicks have looked in a long long time. They were blowing teams out.

Still doesn't make sense why we broke that up

The 7-0 stretch of Linsanity was the best stretch but I get your point. I, too, do have to wonder what might have been if somehow that core was seen for years to come. I believe that Lin could have been a PG who got 14-7 for the next couple of years in support of a team that highlighted Melo and A'mare as well as being able to step up and excel when called upon. Then be in a position to step up more consistently in a lead role as Amar'e aged and finally expires off the cap.

A core with Lin and a 30s Melo still would be able to contend for a few more years beyond the 3 year window it seems the roster is currently constructed for. Obviously there would need to have more development and additions for that to happen but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

That's why I feel the reason why Lin was allowed to walk wasn't money or basketball related. There was something else going on and I don't know who's ego got in the way but my opinion is it was probably Dolan even if most people will want to pin it on the current favorite escapegoat, Melo, which I don't believe it was and there is no evidence to support that idea.

[knicksnyk]

You guys are thinking he will incrementally get better each season. I have been watching long enough to know that doesn't always happen with young players. Nothing from him jumped at me to say, he is untouchable, that is a star right there.

That's your argument in a nutshell... Lin might not improve, therefore... what?

I'm still not sure what your conclusion is, other than that the most optimistic minority of Lin fans are delusional to think he had superstar/HOF potential.

i am curious as to what shump showed him that indicates that shump will get better & how lin doesn't have that.

[bandwagonKnick]

felton is a downgrade. don't fool yourself. even if you go with what you're admitting that it's currently net zero, when you factor in upside, physical gifts, skills, work ethic, it should've been a no brainer. low risk/high reward. i have no idea what you're arguing.

because he doesnt want to acknowledge the fact that lin will get better & felton will likely stay the same. just like he doesn't want to acknowlede TS%, RB% BLK% STL% because the statistics are to advanced. everybody assumes irving, rubio will get better but Lin no he will get worsxe odd that.

Irving carried a team on his back for a full season not 10 games. He also has a history of being good in college.

Rubio the same. He has been an olympian and playing professionally since he was a teen.

Both have track records of becoming better and focal points of the team.

Lin doesn't that is the huge difference.

Wha??? Lin was the focal pont and unquestionable leader in every level of basketball that he's played in. He also has a track record of being a winner everywhere he went. Someone is hatin' without even knowin why~ In high school, Lin led his unknown high school team to a 32-1 record and won the California state title over a well-known nationally ranked powerhouse with virtual scrubs, and was named the California State player of the year. He then led Harvard turning around the school's basketball program completely setting "win" records for the school and breaking numerous school and conference records. Sound familiar. He was also the only player in the nation to be in the top ten in all major categories in his conference. Then, even in the NBA, Lin was the focal point of an NBA team in which an underachieving team turned it around and won 7 in a row without their two best players, when they were losing games to EVERY team with their beat two players just weeks earlier. And your reasoning for the hate is "Why can't he beat the Heat?" "Why can't he be good in every game?!" "Anybody can do what he did and turn around his horrible team that was losing to the Bobcats, if they wanted. They just chose not to do that."
- Unless you are an idiot, im just gonna assume that you didnt even watch more than a couple of his games. Either that or you're just a hater.
- and you do realize that Kyrie has the worst defense among all pg's according to synergy stats, and that Rubio has averaged in the 30's, in terms of fg%, for EVERY year in the Euroleague and surprise, surprise, in the NBA as well. But, even with Rubio's just as horrible T/O rate, much worse fg%, and much worse injury, or Kyrie's much worse defense or much less proven track record, you'd still think Lin sucks, right? Don't answer that, I know your answer. It's just a shame that an otherwise decent sounding dude can't see how much hate is blinding him.
- and by the way, don't limit Shump also and say he won't be an all-star. Shump's got a bright future ahead of him. I would have paid good money to see them develop together into a pesky defensive and aggressive offensive dynamic, young backcourt.

[Fury]

lol, Lin was a good player in college and Irving played like 10 games. Lin's also won the state title.

What a hater.

[Bill Bradley]

I can't wait for the Lin threads once the season starts. Lin will put up monster numbers, Felton will show that he put on monster pounds, and these threads will be nonstop entertainment. It sucks but the only thing I have to look forward to this season is for Lin to clown the Knicks.

[BOOMbip]

Which shows what you are a fan of.... not the Knicks but only your own opinion.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

I can't wait for the Lin threads once the season starts. Lin will put up monster numbers, Felton will show that he put on monster pounds, and these threads will be nonstop entertainment. It sucks but the only thing I have to look forward to this season is for Lin to clown the Knicks.

Ah, so I guess you'll be checking out come April, right around the time most NBA fans are checking in?

[Rallyks]

Irving carried a team on his back for a full season not 10 games. He also has a history of being good in college.

Rubio the same. He has been an olympian and playing professionally since he was a teen.

Both have track records of becoming better and focal points of the team.

Lin doesn't that is the huge difference.

If you're going to pretend that you actually know what you're talking about, you should probably do some fact checking before spewing nonsense.

Just some advice.

[Bill Bradley]

I can't wait for the Lin threads once the season starts. Lin will put up monster numbers, Felton will show that he put on monster pounds, and these threads will be nonstop entertainment. It sucks but the only thing I have to look forward to this season is for Lin to clown the Knicks.

Ah, so I guess you'll be checking out come April, right around the time most NBA fans are checking in?

Huh, what do you mean?

[CU_NY09]

genius, i did graduate from a business school btw. yes, i want to see the best team possible, but we have to be smart with our money. You know what it would mean if we actually matched Lin's offer sheet? Do you realize that Lin presented one offer sheet to the Knicks... agreed on it... then WENT BACK TO HOUSTON for more money.

Basically, he screwed over Dolan. If Dolan accepts, what message does that send out? We can't continue this path of getting royally screwed by overpaying for any sorts of talent. The team has to a put a line in the sand somewhere. As fans, we won't be able to afford complimentary guys to surround our star players.

Literally never happened.

Houston never presented Lin with an offer sheet until signing day, so Lin could never have presented Dolan with anything.

On top of that, Lin called the Knicks, and informed them about Houston upping their offer from what was reported, and Grunwald basically told him "do what you have to do, and we'll take care of it on our end"

Wow, people are still perpetuating this myth that Lin presented the Knicks with an offer sheet and then went back to Houston for more money?! Unbelievable.

[Fury]

Dolan brainwashing.

[GettinitDone]

A young player with his work ethic (in gym up to 3 times a day: morning lifting, break/lunch, afternoon shooting/ drills, break, evening game... everyday ALL SUMMER), passion & dedication for the game,

What would you do if you were a multi-millionaire athlete? "I'd rather be in gym, working out 3 times a day" is the easy answer. But unless you're financially smart, the multi-millions in your bank always tempts you to do something other than working out/ getting better. Like you know, spending your money: new house, new stuff, girls (if you're single), holidays, lots of great foods, partying, alcohol here and there, fun everyday, maybe weed/ heavier drugs here and there, and maybe doing a video showing how loaded you are by playing basketball with a $700 phone. It's all about FUN FUN FUN when you know you have millions in your bank account. Who doesn't have fun? He must be a nerd. And when the buzzer of the summer sounded, you realize you are out of shape and blame everyone who got you into this mess but yourself. Felton is a good guy, but he's the ultimate case of this that his love and passion of the game are NEVER big enough for him to trump the multi-million athlete's lifestyle of constant partying/ celebrations/ flashings. For Lin, who rejected endorsement deals so he could stay in gym, there's nothing more can be said about his dedication and work ethic.

Let's not forget his toughness, kid not only survived the world's biggest media and most ruthless/ merciless/ blood hungry fanbase in the world, he thrived. We have to remember he's still young and he thrived in New York. You may be able to handle criticisms if you're 25-30 years old or wiser. But when you're in your early 20s like most these rookies, you are extremely fragile to criticisms. Kwame Brown had game (people say he's a bust but if you can put 30pts and 19rebds in an NBA game, you have game), but MJ single-handedly destroyed his confidence. He got on him and bullied him psychologically. It broke him. Yet, what Kwame got from MJ was nothing to the pressure Lin had to face daily from fanbase that is 20-30-50 times bigger in New York.


He's not in his yacht partying with hoes all day, every day in summer. He's not in his friend's joint doing drugs. He is not into alcohol. He doesn't go to clubs. He doesn't drive or speed in fast autos and crash himself to retirement. He doesn't break himself against laws. He doesn't possess guns. He just **** stays in the gym and close to his God (I'm not christian, but if his dedication to his religion keeps him out of troubles many other athletes often fall for, I'm all for it). This kid is 100% about basketball. He studies himself, the great PGs, and even Felton and La Bomba. As nerdish as he can be, true student of the game. Barring serious injury (if he stays healthy), he is GUARANTEED to improve, and I mean, improve A LOT. He's as fail proof as anyone.

[GONYK]

Jeremy Lin definitely goes to clubs