MIN - TOR - DET

[shrink]

MIN GIVES: Ridnour + Barea
MIN GETS: Calderon + 2013 SAC 2nd

TOR GIVES: Calderon + 2013 SAC 2nd
TOR GETS: Barea + Daye

DET GIVES: Daye
DET GETS: Ridnour


Why for MIN? Calderon provides an upgrade for the win-now wolves. He's a legitimate NBA starting PG for the first few months of the season until Rubio gets back, insurance if it takes him longer to get to full speed, and he's a better back-up for the rest of the year. While weak defensively, Calderon is a great passer and he can handle big minutes. The Spanierd could also help mentor Ricky for the rest of the year -- he doesn't need more years of mentoring from Ridnour.

Calderon (8.8 APG, 10.5 PPG) is overpaid now ($10.56 now, $11.6 with a 10% trade kicker), and costs Glen Taylor an extra $3 mil, but his deal comes off the books at the end of the year and he'd shed all the future salary of Ridnour and Barea. Calderon has hinted he wants a change of location after the Lowry acquisition, and MIN may be the one NBA team where he'd displace the current starting PG (Ridnour) - even if its only for a few months - and maybe get to play for his next contract. Next year, Calderon expires, and Shved should be ready for more back-up PG minutes with more court time now. Finally, the Wolves add a 15th man roster spot, and get a 2nd.

(Rubio)/Calderon/Shved/Conroy
Roy/Shved/M Lee
Kirilenko/Buddinger
Love/Williams/Cunningham
Pekovic/Steimsma


Why for TOR? The signing of Kyle Lowry to be their starting PG has frustrated Calderon, and financially, they don't need a $10.56 mil PG coming off the bench. Barea's $4.5 mil fits their payroll nicely. Daye was promising two years ago, but when DET kept Tayshaun Prince, he made a major step backwards last year. TOR would get a look at a young player who might prosper in a new location, and even if he doesn't Daye is expiring. Finally, TOR saves $3 mil this year, or a "tradable" TPE.

Lowry/Barea/Lucas
Fields/Anderson/Ross
Derozan/Kleiza/Daye/McGuire
Bargnani/Amir Johnson/Ed Davis/Acy/Wright
Valanciunas/Gray


Why for DET? After last year's poor play, Daye needs a change of scenery. He's not useful to the Pistons, but they have a big hole at back-up PG, with Brandon Knight starting and Wil Bynum as their 3rd stringer. Ridnour can not only give them legitimate minutes at the 1 and 2, but he can adopt a mentoring role for the young Brandon Knight. Financially, Ridnour is worth his $4 mil as a back-up PG/SG and he expires in two years, with Villanueva and Stuckey.

Knight/Ridnour/Bynum
Stuckey/Kim English
Prince/Maggette/Singler
Jerebko/Maxiel/Villanueva
Monroe/Drummong/Kravtsov

[princeofpalace]

Makes no sense for Detroit to add salary for a 3rd stringer like ridnour, this is an easy no for Detroit. They have knight, stuckey and Bynum at point guard

[Lin Your Face]

I don't see why Toronto would downgrade their roster, while taking on Barea's contract. The other teams would say yes.

[vege]

I love it for Detroit, they add a solid veteran guard who can mentor Knight and is cheap.

Ridnour is a starter caliber PG not a 3rd stringer.

[shrink]

Ridnour ($4.0/$4.3): 32 mpg, 4 APG, 2 RPG, 12 PPG
Barea ($4.5/$4.7/$4.5): 18 mpg, 2 APG, 2 RPG, 10 PPG
Calderon ($10.6): 34 mpg, 9 APG, 3 RPG, 10.5 PPG
Daye ($3.0): 15 mpg, 1 APG, 2 RPG, 5 PPG

This trade is based on slots and salary.

TOR fans might be able to argue that Calderon is worth his $10.6 mil salary as a starting PG (I don't think so), but he certainly isn't worth it as a back-up to Lowry, getting back-up minutes.

A good back-up vet PG should run in the $3-5 mil territory, and I think Ridnour and Barea are paid reasonably. A third stringer should go for about $1, and Wil Bynum and Lucas are certainly qualify for third stringers. Stuckey has the skills to be a back-up PG, but DET looks pretty thin at SG with Kim English slow to develop, I would think you'd want him on the floor at SG as much as possible. I think all four may be happier with a change in scenery with a role that better suits their skills and salary.

[Mattya]

I love it for Detroit, they add a solid veteran guard who can mentor Knight and is cheap.

Ridnour is a starter caliber PG not a 3rd stringer.

Agree with everything but the last statement. Ridnour is a quality back up who can spread the floor really well, and he is on a good contract.

[Mad-Eye Moody]

Ridnour ($4.0/$4.3): 32 mpg, 4 APG, 2 RPG, 12 PPG
Barea ($4.5/$4.7/$4.5): 18 mpg, 2 APG, 2 RPG, 10 PPG
Calderon ($10.6): 34 mpg, 9 APG, 3 RPG, 10.5 PPG
Daye ($3.0): 15 mpg, 1 APG, 2 RPG, 5 PPG

This trade is based on slots and salary.

TOR fans might be able to argue that Calderon is worth his $10.6 mil salary as a starting PG (I don't think so), but he certainly isn't worth it as a back-up to Lowry, getting back-up minutes.

A good back-up vet PG should run in the $3-5 mil territory, and I think Ridnour and Barea are paid reasonably. A third stringer should go for about $1, and Wil Bynum and Lucas are certainly qualify for third stringers. Stuckey has the skills to be a back-up PG, but DET looks pretty thin at SG with Kim English slow to develop, I would think you'd want him on the floor at SG as much as possible. I think all four may be happier with a change in scenery with a role that better suits their skills and salary.

If I am Toronto, I would rather have the larger expiring thank taking on 2 longer term contracts. Yes Jose is paid more than Barea, but Barea + Daye amounts to 7.5 million for next year. Then there's still around 10 million due to Barea. Daye isn't worth much (scrub/filler), so there really isn't much incentive for Toronto. Calderon is arguably the better point guard, and gives Toronto flexibility.

I like this for Minnesota. They cut some long term salary for a starting calibre PG in Calderon who will fill in nicely until Rubio returns. When Rubio returns, Calderon would be a great backup to Rubio (some chemistry via Spain NT) and expire at the end of the year. Minnesota can then let him walk, or re-sign him to a cheaper deal to backup Rubio.

I like it for Detroit as well. I would think that most would have given up on Daye by now and Ridnour has proven to be a solid PG as well. I think he's a great PG to have behind Knight as he develops. Friendly contract as well.

[dVs33]

I love it for Detroit, they add a solid veteran guard who can mentor Knight and is cheap.

Ridnour is a starter caliber PG not a 3rd stringer.

Agreed. Daye hasn't got a place on the team and he needs a change of scenery. Ridnour would fill out our guard rotation nicely.

[Warspite]

This Pistons fan has always liked Ridenour. Many of you may have forgotten but he was invited to team USA try outs. He played well last yr for the Wolves. Taking on an extra yr of salary is the only downside. Pistons just need to ship out Bynum.

[HomieOmey]

TOR fans might be able to argue that Calderon is worth his $10.6 mil salary as a starting PG (I don't think so), but he certainly isn't worth it as a back-up to Lowry, getting back-up minutes.

A good back-up vet PG should run in the $3-5 mil territory, and I think Ridnour and Barea are paid reasonably.

Jose is an ending deal and the best PG in this deal, so the salary is irrelevant. Who cares if we're paying too much for a back-up if it means less long term commitment and a stronger push for the playoffs?

[shrink]

TOR fans might be able to argue that Calderon is worth his $10.6 mil salary as a starting PG (I don't think so), but he certainly isn't worth it as a back-up to Lowry, getting back-up minutes.

A good back-up vet PG should run in the $3-5 mil territory, and I think Ridnour and Barea are paid reasonably.

Jose is an ending deal and the best PG in this deal, so the salary is irrelevant. Who cares if we're paying too much for a back-up if it means less long term commitment and a stronger push for the playoffs?

I disagree with all of this.

If you think salary is irrelevant if it's only one year, why don't you scrape together the $10.6 mil? There is no way that Calderon can be worth the $10.6 as a back-up, and this year the production of Barea and Daye at $7.5 is a better value, and more easily tradable commodities.

Next year, do you think that TOR will have no need for a back-up PG? This isn't money that is just thrown away, like the extra money Calderon is paid. Barea gets paid a reasonable amount for a reasonable job. Yes, there is no longterm commitment when Calderon expires, but the need to fill the job is not met either.

And finally -- what play-off push?

[TPV]

TOR fans might be able to argue that Calderon is worth his $10.6 mil salary as a starting PG (I don't think so), but he certainly isn't worth it as a back-up to Lowry, getting back-up minutes.

A good back-up vet PG should run in the $3-5 mil territory, and I think Ridnour and Barea are paid reasonably.

Jose is an ending deal and the best PG in this deal, so the salary is irrelevant. Who cares if we're paying too much for a back-up if it means less long term commitment and a stronger push for the playoffs?

I disagree with all of this.

If you think salary is irrelevant if it's only one year, why don't you scrape together the $10.6 mil? There is no way that Calderon can be worth the $10.6 as a back-up, and this year the production of Barea and Daye at $7.5 is a better value, and more easily tradable commodities.

Next year, do you think that TOR will have no need for a back-up PG? This isn't money that is just thrown away, like the extra money Calderon is paid. Barea gets paid a reasonable amount for a reasonable job. Yes, there is no longterm commitment when Calderon expires, but the need to fill the job is not met either.

And finally -- what play-off push?

The difference in salary doesn't mean much if Toronto doesn't want Barea as their backup point guard. It makes more sense to see who is available in free agency next year to fill that role. There's also no room for Daye on the current roster.

[SCourGe OF GoD]

Daye is not enough to take on Barea imo...although they shed 3mill upfront its just a meh move for the Raps imo.

[Mad-Eye Moody]

There is no way that Calderon can be worth the $10.6 as a back-up, and this year the production of Barea and Daye at $7.5 is a better value, and more easily tradable commodities.

Completely disagree with this. I'd rather take Calderon's ending salary, than take on Barea's contract.

There's always a market for expiring contracts.

[Blkbrd671]

not bad, rather have calderon so that we don't have to pay Rid for 2 years. but i'll take it

[hazy_01]

Nah, Raps ain't taking on Barea and Daye isn't worth it to make it up. Would rather let Calderon expire.

[SCourGe OF GoD]

Sota has to throw in Malcolm Lee and two 2nd rounders

[shrink]

Let's try to compare apples-to-apples here from TOR's perspective. Let's look at how much they pay, and how much production they can expect back in return:

Keep Calderon:

2012-13 -$6 mil: Pay $10.6 mil - get $4.6 mil production. He might have been worth $7.5 as a starter
2013-14 $0 mil: Pay "somebody" market price to play back-up PG
2014-15 $0 mil: Pay "somebody" market price to play back-up PG
2012-15: TOR pays $6.0 mil more than the production they get.

Trade for Barea + Daye

2012-13: -$1.9 mil: Pay Barea $4.5 - get $4.0 mil production. $1.5 mil of Daye - better than min prospect
2013-14: -0.7 mil: Pay Barea $4.7 - $4.0 production to play back-up PG
2014-15: -$0.5 mil: Pay Barea $4.5 - $4.0 production to play back-up PG
2012-15: TOR pays $3.1 mil more than the production they get.

We all judge players differently, but I don't think Barea, in his normal back-up role, is going to be worth less than $4 mil/year. I personally think he's worth the whole contract, and FWIW, ESPN just ranked him at #134 in a 30-team league. Expirings still need to be paid their final year, and their trade value only comes back in taking a longer term bad contract - teams don't give up longterm good contracts for expiring deals. Calderon was overpaid before, but with a desire to be elsewhere and less minutes to recoup that big salary, his contract just became awful.

[shrink]

By the way, you may say, "Well why would MIN help these other teams out, if they are saving them money? -- especially with Calderon's 10% trade kicker?!?" The answer is -- because they are helping themselves out too.

The reason this might work financially for MIN is for the same reason as TOR - they have guys paid for slots that they won't be able to play in the future. Calderon is paid like a first-stringer - and will get second-string minutes. While Ridnour and Barea would be fine for production and pay as second-stringers, when Rubio gets back, the promising Alexy Shved playing back-up minutes, and Will Conroy on a partially guaranteed deal as a third stringer, Ridnour and Barea won't get second-string minutes next year.

The apples-to-apples decision for MIN goes like this:

Trade for Calderon:

2012-13: -$5.6 mil: Pay $11.6 mil (tk) - get $6 mil production (several months as a starter)
2013-14 $0 mil: Already have #2 and #3
2014-15 $0 mil: Already have #2 and #3
-$5.6 mil. MIN pays $5.6 mil more than the production they get back

Keep Ridnour and Barea:

2012-13: -$2.5 mil: Pay $8.5 - get $6 mil production (several months as a starter, Shved not ready)
2013-14 -$5 mil: Pay $9.0 mil - get $4 mil production from available PG and SG minutes.
2014-15 -$2.5 mil: Pay $4.5 mil (Barea) - get $2.5 mil production from available PG/SG minutes.
-$10 mil. MIN pays $10 mil more than the production they get back.

This assumes that Shved is going to need mintues to develop this year, will play some of those minutes at PG, and he'll be able to be productive with those minutes over the next three years.

The key though is that these aren't bad players or bad contracts, but they just don't have the opportunity to earn their money on their current team, which makes them good players to trade to a new home.

[BadMofoPimp]

Detroit says Hell Yes
Minny says Ok
Toronto says lets rock.

Not bad trade.