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Scavenger Hunt Draft - finals - Fred Wins!!!

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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - swedd vs lamar vote 

Post#801 » by MKG14 » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:10 am

SWedd523 wrote:
MKG14 wrote:I think swedd's only elite thing on his team (in this league) is Shaq, and that Kemp doesn't really do it for me.

This statement is so beyond idiotic that it warrants no response other than "mkay"

reporting you for being a dick

LamarMatic7 wrote:Please, do tell me how are they not going to beat Shaq down the field.

Shaq was an athletic freak, but fat made a good point in saying he's not sprinting for 40 (certainly not 48) minutes all game. Certainly not on defense, as he'll be crashing the offensive boards some.
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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - swedd vs lamar vote 

Post#802 » by SWedd523 » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:47 am

MKG14 wrote:
SWedd523 wrote:
MKG14 wrote:I think swedd's only elite thing on his team (in this league) is Shaq, and that Kemp doesn't really do it for me.

This statement is so beyond idiotic that it warrants no response other than "mkay"

reporting you for being a dick

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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - swedd vs lamar vote 

Post#803 » by LamarMatic7 » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:27 am

SWedd523 wrote:
LamarMatic7 wrote:
SWedd523 wrote:I don't know why you'd point to a previous year and hold that against him when his "current" year clearly shows a much better player. You don't find many post players better than the three he ran through in the 96 playoffs.

That's like saying, "Ah well Jordan won an average of 36 games his first three years, he would struggle 'now'"

Bad argument.

Kemp had already reached his prime in '94, so we can say that during his prime he had a horrible series against that small ball Denver Nuggets team, against which he supposedly shouldn't struggle since he excelled in the up-tempo game.

Jordan's first three career years have nothing to do with him in his prime.


It's a bad argument because he couldn't have improved two years later?

he could have
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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - swedd vs lamar vote 

Post#804 » by MKG14 » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:29 am

SWedd523 wrote:
MKG14 wrote:
SWedd523 wrote:This statement is so beyond idiotic that it warrants no response other than "mkay"

reporting you for being a dick

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reported this too
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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - swedd vs lamar vote 

Post#805 » by SWedd523 » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:22 pm

LamarMatic7 wrote:
SWedd523 wrote:It's a bad argument because he couldn't have improved two years later?

he could have


It's more than he could have. He did. We have empirical evidence to show it.
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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - swedd vs lamar vote 

Post#806 » by SWedd523 » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:25 pm

MKG14 wrote:reported this too


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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - swedd vs lamar vote 

Post#807 » by fatlever » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:13 pm

lamar with the win. he moves on to the finals.

next matchup fred vs fat.
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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - fred vs fat 

Post#808 » by fatlever » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:45 pm

#1 Fred vs #4 Fat

Fat
PG: Magic I P Hardaway I Cassell
SG: Iverson I Petrovic I Gill
SF: Mullin I Bowen
PF: Chambers I McDyess I Mason I D Davis
C: Ewing I Sampson I Przybilla

Fred
Chris Paul/Baron Davis/Derek Harper
Mitch Richmond/Dan Majerle/Hersey Hawkins
Carmelo Anthony/Bernard King/Ken Norman
Karl Malone/Kevin Willis/
Tim Duncan/Bill Laimbeer/Kevin Duckworth/Will Perdue

My thoughts below

matchups for Team Fat

Magic vs Carmelo - Team Fat will start with Magic guarding Melo on defense. Melo isnt very quick and relies mostly on post ups, isos and mid-range jumpers to score. This is a decent matchup for Magic defensively. Magic doesnt have to worry about getting beat off the dribble and he has the size and strength to defend melo in the post. Offensively, i am not sure who Fred will put on Magic, but none of the options appear to be good ones. Magic will overpower Paul and Richmond in the post and he will torture Melo in the open floor. Team Fat will once again expect Magic to set an extremely fast tempo and look to push the ball at every opportunity.

Iverson vs Paul - Iverson can hang with Paul's quickness. Both players will try to beat the other off the dribble. Both players will look to jump passing lanes for easy steals. Paul has the edge in playmaking, Iverson has the edge in scoring. Like Magic, Iverson will look to push the tempo on the break and run at defenders looking to get to the rim or the free throw line.

Mullin vs Richmond - Another good matchup for Team Fat. These two players know each other's games well from their time together in Golden State. Mullin will have a little size advantage while Richmond will have a quickness advantage. Mullin is live on the perimeter looking to create space for Iverson and Magic and also acting as a facilitator in the offense with his passing skills.

Chambers vs Malone - Two of the late 80's/90s premier running big men. Chambers will look to get out on the break and look for alley-oops from Magic. In the halfcourt game Chambers will be used in the high pick and roll with Magic where he can stretch the defenses with his mid range game.

Ewing vs Duncan - Duncan is scarier as a power forward. He isnt quite the dominating player when matched up vs talented centers like Ewing. Both players will have their hands full in the post. Both players are elite defenders, Duncan being more of a positionally sound defender, Ewing being the better shot blocker (4 blocks per game). Both players will look to step out and work from the elbow on offense. Ewing will also be asked to run the floor as much as possible on the break.

Bench

Penny and Cassell vs Baron and Harper - lots of power and post ups in this matchup. Penny at his best is just too much to handle and Team Fat doesn't miss a beat when he comes in for Magic.

Petrovic vs Majerlie - the battle of the bench shooters. nobody was a better shooter in the 90s than Petrovic though. He was the best. Dan was good, but he wasnt Petrovic. Dan gets the edge on defense, assuming the refs don't call him for holding (which he will do) every time down the floor

Bowen vs King - Bowen will bang, grab, foul, trip and harass king every second he is on the floor. Bowen will also be used to slow down Richmond, Melo or Baron if they get going. He'll be used to double down on Malone and Duncan. On offense he will stand in the corner and keep defenses honest. If you leave him alone he will make 3s.

McDyess and Mason vs Kevin Willis - Both McDyess and Mason are going to get minutes in this series as Team Fat looks to run a ton of big men at Malone and Duncan. Mason might also be used at small forward at times to bully King and Melo. McDyess will be asked to play with power and speed, looking to fill the lane for dunks, fight for offensive rebounds and slow down Freds bigs.

Sampson vs Laimbeer - talk about a contrast of styles. Laimbeer is pure thug, Sampson is a mobile finesse center. Sampson will have no trouble guarding Laimbeer out along the perimeter where he likes to operate, however, Laimbeer will struggle to keep up with the speed and quickness of Sampson. Laimbeer will try to use his bullying tactics to frustrate Sampson, no doubt.

In the end, Magic will prove to be the best player in the series and he will be able to dictate the style and tempo of the series. Team Fat will have enough bigs to keep Fred's front line in check. Iverson will be the wildcard. If he gets going, the series could be over quickly. Fred doesnt have anyone who can really slow Iverson down.

Fat in 6.
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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - fred vs fat 

Post#809 » by LamarMatic7 » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:55 pm

I want to hear how Fred will match up on the defensive end and what's his plan on offense in order to make my vote.
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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - fred vs fat 

Post#810 » by MKG14 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:13 am

It's hard to believe not using Duncan at center in this league. my vote is for fat again here. I don't think fred even made my top 3 in the first vote.
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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - fred vs fat 

Post#811 » by fatlever » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:56 pm

fred, where did you go?
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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - fred vs fat 

Post#812 » by Fred Williamson » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:02 pm

sorry to let you guys wait. I though we were finished here after the regular voting. but okay then, here we go:

First of all, you can argue about the matchups all day long, but my combination of players fit way better with each other and are overall the better "team". Still, lets go into further detail with fat's matchups: Magic is the only possible threat I see here . However, I think Melo is really badmouthed here. "not every quick" is just false, as well as mostly relying on jumpers to score. He's one of the most explosive forwards the league has ever seen and attacks the rim at ease. Defensively, Melo is big and quick enough to limit Magic in his versatile game and he will certainly bring his A-game on defense with the likes of Malone, Laimbeer and Duncan leading the team. Another important aspect, you guys seem to forget. Well, If he should have problems defending Magic though, I can put Thunder Dan on him who will certainly be able to limit Magic and his backups.

The Iverson-Paul matchup is also quite down talked here from Paul's perspective. Not only is Paul the way superior playmaker and defender, the difference on scoring is also not as big here. Paul has proven that he can easily drop 30 if he wishes to, but rather sticks to making his team mates better. Moreover, Paul is bigger and stronger than Iverson and can either beat AI off the dribble or post him up. However, the most important factor that is forgotten here is Iverson and his incapability to subordinate. As I have said, it's not only about the matchups, I also have the better combination of fitting players, where'fats' team lags behind while looking good on paper. And it all starts with Iverson, who has proven several times throughout his career that is unable to adapt, which harms his own and the team's potential badly.

Richmond is also quite underrated here, especially on defense. Lets not forget how good this guy was on both ends. We can also ask Jordan about his opinion. Richmond is also one of the greatest shooters of all time, btw, even slightly better than Mullins based on the career %.

Now to the most important part, the froncourt. I don't see how the constellation of Chambers and Ewing and their backups will limit Malone/Duncan/Laimbeer in the slightest. We are talking about the two best power forwards of all time time. The talks of Duncan being less dominating on center is also a wash here. Especially with having Ewing in front of him. At PF, Malone will have a field day against Chambers and dominate every single night. This matchup is not even close. Moreover, Malone and Duncan flourish even more on offense, paired up with a A+ playmaking point guard. This will be sheer dominance.

Bench:

Penny maybe a lot to handle, but so is prime Davis. Petrovic was a great shooter but as for everything else, Majerle will not only be able to limit him, but also dominate him offensively. King is one of the most dominant players in history. Bowen can do as much as he wishes to defensively, but he won't able to prevent King from making his points. Laimbeer will also have absolutely no problem with locking down whoever you put in front of him and still get his 15 points.

Overall, not only individually but also my superior teamplay will kill fat's. My frontcourt is just too dominant on defense and offense, especially in combination with CP3. I also have the luxury of either Melo or King off the bench for 30+ points. Furthermore, Iverson and his attitude and playing style will hurt Team fats badly on both ends on the floor and my team will certainly make use of it. I don't see how this is a close one.

Team Fred in 5 maybe 6 max.
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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - fred vs fat 

Post#813 » by fatlever » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:24 pm

nice recap fred. well said.

voting is open. i am making the poll now. go vote everyone.
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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - fred vs fat, go vote 

Post#814 » by fatlever » Mon Oct 1, 2012 4:52 pm

voting ends tonight at 11PM.
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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - fred vs fat, go vote 

Post#815 » by LamarMatic7 » Mon Oct 1, 2012 6:42 pm

random thought, Fred - couldn't you put Richmond on Magic, since he's such a good defensive player? Melo would get killed. As for the winner of the series - honestly, I can't decide. Fred made some decent points about the way each team's players fit together. Ahh, **** it. I'm playing the Iverson doesn't fit that good card, the slight advantage of Fred's bigs and that Mullin might get killed by all of the scoring that comes from forwards. Yeah, I know that you put Magic on Melo, fats, however you can't guard Melo, Kind and Richmond with Magic alone. Either he does so and it affects his stamina and offensive production or Mullin gets beasted on. Magic as Mullin were great passing lane defenders, however there's a reason Magic had to be hidden on defense towards the second half of his career. Obviously, he couldn't guard 6 foot tall guards, but he also wasn't that good on defense. Aaah, tough choice, but going with Fred.
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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - fred vs fat, go vote 

Post#816 » by SWedd523 » Mon Oct 1, 2012 7:25 pm

Magic vs Melo
Magic is the GOAT PG and is a chore for anybody to guard, much less a subpar defender like Melo. However, Melo is a historically better scorer than people give him credit for and Magic was an average defender in his own right. On that basis alone, this seems like a relatively close matchup. However, Magic always steps up when it counts most and Melo hasn't shown the ability to lead a team to the promise land. This'll be closer than people think, but still edge Fats

Iverson vs Paul
Similar stature and athletic profile, but much different approaches to the game. Iverson is score, score, score, and Paul takes an Isiah Thomas "set 'em up, then score" view. Both are going to hound the passing lanes and get out in transition. Individually, it's hard to decide between these two so I'll go by their respective roles for each team and CP3 will be in a more natural fit for his talents. Slight edge Fred

Mullin vs Richmond
Two guys that probably had their most success playing next to each other. Mullin has the size and pure talent advantage while Mitch is more athletic and did more with less (pure ability). Hard to choose so I'll once again be looking at fit. Mullin is in an awesome place next to Magic/Iverson where he can drain shots from deep while Mitch is going to be fighting with Melo for shots. Slight edge Fats

Chambers vs Malone
Chambers isn't chopped liver, but Malone has the athleticism to neutralize the good things Chambers does while being dominant on the other end of the floor. Chambers would be better suited coming off the bench as a change of pace player while Malone is a true force. Edge Fred

Ewing vs Duncan
I feel like Ewing is also underrated historically. Similar games, similar size, similar impact. The difference for me is that Duncan has been able to turn his talents into more team success while Ewing failed to get his team over the championship hump (whether that be an indication of Ewing's competition is for another time). Duncan is just a little bit better. Slight edge Fred


Bench Matchups
Penny and King are supreme talents and awesome 6th men, but Fats has a little more depth, especially in the frontcourt where he can throw some serious muscle at Malone and Duncan. I like the pairing of Petrovic and Bowen but think Davis is better than people give him credit for. Majerle and Hawkins provide some floor spacing and Laimbeer can lay some wood himself. Overall bench production says slight edge Fats

Can Melo succeed as a second/third option to the bigs down low? Can Iverson succeed without dominating the ball?

Verdict: This one is really close. Magic is the best player in the game but Duncan and Malone are seriously dangerous as a pair. If Melo can't get his act together, Fred can sub in King and probably be in even better shape. If Iverson can't make it work, Penny comes in and creates one nasty and huge duo. In the end, I'm going to give a very small victory to Fred on behalf of his stronger high end low post play 130-126
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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - fred vs fat, go vote 

Post#817 » by LamarMatic7 » Mon Oct 1, 2012 8:20 pm

btw, can you guys imagine that duo of Duncan and Malone? Talk about two hard-working, no nonsense guys. They would probably hit the gym together as early as in August and put the whole team in place as the vocal leaders.
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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - fred vs fat, go vote 

Post#818 » by SWedd523 » Mon Oct 1, 2012 8:32 pm

LamarMatic7 wrote:btw, can you guys imagine that duo of Duncan and Malone? Talk about two hard-working, no nonsense guys. They would probably hit the gym together as early as in August and put the whole team in place as the vocal leaders.

Duncan is probably the perfect partner for Malone. I'm sitting here running through my memory of great big men and, outside of maybe Hakeem, I don't think it gets much better
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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - playoffs - fred vs fat, go vote 

Post#819 » by fatlever » Tue Oct 2, 2012 4:10 am

voting closed. congrat fred. i guess duncan and malone were just too much to handle.

on to the finals. fred vs lamar. you guys know what to do.
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Re: Scavenger Hunt Draft - finals - fred vs lamar 

Post#820 » by penquin11 » Wed Oct 3, 2012 1:58 am

as an outsider posting in here, I think that the Lamar vs Swedd game was the real gem of the matchups in this forum, so many great players in that one!
Devilzsidewalk wrote:no, the DB's will just be thinking "damn, I thought that was going to be a run!" as they easily recover to intercept a Ponder pass 10 yards off the mark

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