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OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THREAD

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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1441 » by GONYK » Wed Oct 3, 2012 1:08 am

GettinitDone wrote:Orlando agreed to accept Arron Afflalo as the main guy they brought back in Howard trade. They priority was to bring quality character over talent because they strive to change culture of the team.

If we had just friggin matched that contract, we could have traded Lin to Orlando for DH12!!!! I mean, there's probably noone better in L than Lin who embodies great/ committed character, great leader, faithful guy, (he believes in team, not star, culture, he works hard and smart and leads by example, he won't put himself above team, and he won't bitch and demand trade) and he actually has a talent to be a bona-fide star, unlike AA.

I read Rob Hennigan (Orlando new GM) SI article a while back and the article confirmed of this approach (Magic looking for quality personality personnel over talent). So when they're on the verge of trade, and we jumped in and said, "we're offering Jeremy Lin, and fillers", do you seriously think Magic are gonna say, "nah, we like Arron Afflalo better!". Guy seriously can't be that better than Lin personality-wise?? He elbowed a kid (Gordon Hayward) because of frustration! I believe we could trade Lin 3 months after he signed the contract?

Yes, Dwight would have absolutely stayed in NY. It's this type of players that Lakers keep looking to build dynasties, not just a "2-3 years window". Lakers have 14 championships. Knicks = 1. And we're bitching about that $13mil in year 3???? Like it was supposed to come out of our pocket. Who's been duped in the clear day?? Those who support letting Lin go instead of matching Lin (and signing Felton).


Don't hurt yourself making those large leaps in logic

Here is the truth. DH12 had to be off the roster before training camp.

If we matched the contract, we couldn't trade Lin until December. And on top of that, any fillers we had couldn't be moved until December either, since we just basically got our whole roster through FA.

See the problem?
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1442 » by cgmw » Wed Oct 3, 2012 1:12 am

Can you sign & trade Jeremy Lin?
"Sell the team. Sell the team. Sell the team."
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1443 » by GONYK » Wed Oct 3, 2012 1:17 am

cgmw wrote:Can you sign & trade Jeremy Lin?


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1444 » by GettinitDone » Wed Oct 3, 2012 1:20 am

^I believe we can sign and trade Lin (and other "fillers") in December.

GONYK, you're wrong. Magic wanted to trade Howard before season began. But must they? No. If we kept Lin, and said, "I know you want to trade him now, and quickly get over the drama, but if you wait just until December, you'll get Jeremy Lin instead of Arron Afflalo." December is only a month in.

I mean, it's kinda easier to accept a talented player like Lin as the leader, not Arron Afflalo because "he has nice personality"? I really think the Magic would have waited.

**** it, if not Dwight, CP3.
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1445 » by GONYK » Wed Oct 3, 2012 1:27 am

GettinitDone wrote:^I believe we can sign and trade Lin (and other "fillers") in December.

GONYK, you're wrong. Magic wanted to trade Howard before season began. But must they? No. If we kept Lin, and said, "I know you want to trade him now, and quickly get over the drama, but if you wait just until December, you'll get Jeremy Lin instead of Arron Afflalo." December is only a month in.

I mean, it's kinda easier to accept a talented player like Lin as the leader, not Arron Afflalo because "he has nice personality"? I really think the Magic would have waited.

**** it, if not Dwight, CP3.


You're right, nobody was holding a gun to Orlando's head, but at the same time, if they were willing to wait into the season to get Dwight, they would have done so. The fact that they would rather have grabbed their ankles and let the Lakers violate them in a trade for Dwight shows you how bad they wanted him gone before camp.

We weren't getting CP3 for Lin either man. Cmon. There is a salary cap.
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1446 » by cgmw » Wed Oct 3, 2012 1:31 am

GONYK wrote:
cgmw wrote:Can you sign & trade Jeremy Lin?


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1447 » by GettinitDone » Wed Oct 3, 2012 1:33 am

Lin and fillers.

Did you even read my post. Orlando's priority was a high character guy. Lin is a top notch character guy, and he actually has talent to be the team's possible franchise player. This is the point.
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1448 » by GONYK » Wed Oct 3, 2012 1:42 am

GettinitDone wrote:Lin and fillers.

Did you even read my post. [u]Orlando's priority was a high character guy.[/b] Lin is a top notch character guy, and he actually has talent to be the team's possible franchise player. This is the point.


The point is that you created an entirely implausible scenario based on the nothing but your belief that Lin is a good guy.
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1449 » by GettinitDone » Wed Oct 3, 2012 1:50 am

EVERYONE can see he is a good guy. He is an open Christian devout, gym rat, works hard/ smart (leads by example), always emphasizes team over individual, doesn't even have tattoos. There's no better guy that fits in Orlando's criteria in this matter.

You just post to rebuke my point but don't use your own point to explain why he's not a good guy.
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1450 » by GONYK » Wed Oct 3, 2012 2:00 am

GettinitDone wrote:EVERYONE can see he is a good guy. He is an open Christian devout, gym rat, works hard/ smart (leads by example), always emphasizes team over individual, doesn't even have tattoos. There's no better guy that fits in Orlando's criteria in this matter.

You just post to rebuke my point but don't use your own point to explain why he's not a good guy.


I never said he wasn't a good guy.

I'm saying it takes WAAAAAAY more than that to trade for Dwight Howard

For example:

Who are our fillers?
Who says Orlando wants to risk paying Lin $13M?
We definitely would have needed a third team since we can't offer any youth or picks. What would we have given that team?
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1451 » by GettinitDone » Wed Oct 3, 2012 2:34 am

GONYK wrote:
GettinitDone wrote:EVERYONE can see he is a good guy. He is an open Christian devout, gym rat, works hard/ smart (leads by example), always emphasizes team over individual, doesn't even have tattoos. There's no better guy that fits in Orlando's criteria in this matter.

You just post to rebuke my point but don't use your own point to explain why he's not a good guy.


I never said he wasn't a good guy.

I'm saying it takes WAAAAAAY more than that to trade for Dwight Howard

For example:

Who are our fillers?
Who says Orlando wants to risk paying Lin $13M?
We definitely would have needed a third team since we can't offer any youth or picks. What would we have given that team?


Who are our fillers?

Who the heck cares about our fillers. We're talking about Dwight Howard, top 3 player. For the next 8 years!!! At least.


Who says Orlando wants to risk paying Lin $13M?

Lin's salary on another team would be distributed evenly, $8m, $8m, $8m. Arron Afflalo's salary? $28mil over 4 years (with player option in 4th year that he surely is going to opt in, unless he somehow becomes an All Star). From salary standpoint, Lin's contract is much more attractive since it's shorter... and Lin at 14ppg (that included 9 early garbage minutes games) in his second season is a much more attractive talent return than 15ppg from Afflalo in his 5th season.


We definitely would have needed a third team since we can't offer any youth or picks. What would we have given that team?

We can dangle Amare since DH12 coming in would mean we don't need him. Some lottery teams who would like veterans who can produce to lift them to playoffs (e.g. Wizards trading McGee for actually a worse player in Nene) could be a part of this trade.
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1452 » by GONYK » Wed Oct 3, 2012 2:44 am

GettinitDone wrote:
Who are our fillers?

Who the heck cares about our fillers. We're talking about Dwight Howard, top 3 player. For the next 8 years!!! At least.


I bet Orlando would

Who says Orlando wants to risk paying Lin $13M?

Lin's salary on another team would be distributed evenly, $8m, $8m, $8m. Arron Afflalo's salary? $28mil over 4 years (with player option in 4th year that he surely is going to opt in, unless he somehow becomes an All Star). From salary standpoint, Lin's contract is much more attractive since it's shorter... and Lin at 14ppg (that included 9 early garbage minutes games) in his second season is a much more attractive talent return than 15ppg from Afflalo in his 5th season.


In a trade for Dwight Howard or anyone, Jeremy Lin's contract would only count as $5M outgoing for us, but count as $8M incoming for Orlando. A legal trade can only be accomplished if both teams add additional salary to the transaction, making it nearly impossible for us to complete, or if they include a third team that is able to absorb excess salary.


We definitely would have needed a third team since we can't offer any youth or picks. What would we have given that team?

We can dangle Amare since DH12 coming in would mean we don't need him. Some lottery teams who would like veterans who can produce to lift them to playoffs (e.g. Wizards trading McGee for actually a worse player in Nene) could be a part of this trade.


:lol:

Nobody is taking Amare off our hands for free
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1453 » by GettinitDone » Wed Oct 3, 2012 3:15 am

GONYK wrote:
GettinitDone wrote:Who are our fillers?

Who the heck cares about our fillers. We're talking about Dwight Howard, top 3 player. For the next 8 years!!! At least.


I bet Orlando would


Orlando got Moe Harkless (a rookie), Al Harrington (one of the worst contracts in the L), Nikola Vucevic, Josh McRoberts (scrub), Christian Eyenga (scrub).

Jeremy Lin alone trumps AA + this scrub package. Whatever that comes along with Lin doesn't matter, as long as salaries match. Orlando made this trade exclusively to rid DH12 and get AA as the "ultimate character guy" to change their culture and build around. Well, Lin has a better character than AA (he elbowed a kid) and has a much better talent to be legitimately build around.

Joe Johnson, Al Harrington were traded this offseason. I'm sure Amare who can easily still average 20ppg as the first/ second option can be traded. Amare would fetch us better than Moe Harkless and scrubs, presenting a more attractive package for Orlando.



GONYK wrote:
Who says Orlando wants to risk paying Lin $13M?

Lin's salary on another team would be distributed evenly, $8m, $8m, $8m. Arron Afflalo's salary? $28mil over 4 years (with player option in 4th year that he surely is going to opt in, unless he somehow becomes an All Star). From salary standpoint, Lin's contract is much more attractive since it's shorter... and Lin at 14ppg (that included 9 early garbage minutes games) in his second season is a much more attractive talent return than 15ppg from Afflalo in his 5th season.


In a trade for Dwight Howard or anyone, Jeremy Lin's contract would only count as $5M outgoing for us, but count as $8M incoming for Orlando. A legal trade can only be accomplished if both teams add additional salary to the transaction, making it nearly impossible for us to complete, or if they include a third team that is able to absorb excess salary.


Which is better, because $8mil incoming for Orlando means less fillers we have to put together. A third and even fourth team would be definitely needed. We trade Amare.


GONYK wrote:
We definitely would have needed a third team since we can't offer any youth or picks. What would we have given that team?

We can dangle Amare since DH12 coming in would mean we don't need him. Some lottery teams who would like veterans who can produce to lift them to playoffs (e.g. Wizards trading McGee for actually a worse player in Nene) could be a part of this trade.


:lol:

Nobody is taking Amare off our hands for free


Again, Joe Johnson, Al Harrington were traded this offseason. I'm sure Amare who can easily still average 20ppg as the first/ second option can be traded.
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1454 » by GONYK » Wed Oct 3, 2012 3:17 am

If you say so man. You're on an island alone (where Jeremy Lin makes all things possible) on this one.
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1455 » by GettinitDone » Wed Oct 3, 2012 3:34 am

He is an asset because:
- he is young
- he oozes talent
- he works and plays hard/ smart
- other teams taking him would have $8M, $8M, $8M (no poison pill)

It's not hard to see it (I guess it's hard for Dolan to see it with his emotions).

"Yeahhh we did the smart thing financially by not matching" <------ what Dolan wants you to believe and you ate it all up. Knicks arguably the richest team in the L (even if we're sporting Eddy Curry, Jerome James, Fields, Douglas this season, this team would still make profits, it's just how insanely loss-proof financial entity the Knicks are) worry about $13M and that $40+M tax in the third year? :lol: We've all been DUPED big time by Dolan and we ate it all up :lol:

Financial concern? It's more like they made a mistake because the dumb owner made a business decision based on emotions and they tried to cover it up by conveniently point to the poison pill 3rd year as an excuse for not matching.
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1456 » by GONYK » Wed Oct 3, 2012 3:35 am

GettinitDone wrote:He is an asset because:
- he is young
- he oozes talent
- he works and plays hard/ smart
- other teams taking him would have $8M, $8M, $8M (no poison pill)

It's not hard to see it (I guess it's hard for Dolan to see it with his emotions).

"Yeahhh we did the smart thing financially by not matching" <------ what Dolan wants you to believe and you ate it all up. Knicks arguably the richest team in the L (even if we're sporting Eddy Curry, Jerome James, Fields, Douglas this season, this team would still make profits, it's just how insanely loss-proof financial entity the Knicks are) worry about $13M and that $40+M in the third year? :lol: We've all been DUPED big time by Dolan and we ate it all up :lol:


Nobody denies Lin is an asset. He's just not getting you Dwight.
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1457 » by GettinitDone » Wed Oct 3, 2012 3:46 am

Because all the Magic asked was superstar Arron Afflalo and all star package (Harkless, Vucevic, Harrington, Eyenga, McRoberts) for Dwight?

Like aforementioned in my post, the Magic went into this trade process with the mindset of acquiring "character" over "talent". They viewed AA as that "character guy". The reason why I am sure Lin would be a better offer is because Lin is a better character guy than AA.
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1458 » by GONYK » Wed Oct 3, 2012 3:52 am

GettinitDone wrote:Because all the Magic asked was superstar Arron Afflalo and all star package (Harkless, Vucevic, Harrington, Eyenga, McRoberts) for Dwight?

Like aforementioned in my post, the Magic went into this trade process with the mindset of acquiring "character" over "talent". They viewed AA as that "character guy". The reason why I am sure Lin would be a better offer is because Lin is a better character guy than AA.


It has nothing to do with each player's character, and everything to do with the constraints of the collective bargaining agreement.

Orlando isn't giving up on picks just because Jeremy Lin is a Christian with no tattoos

Some random team with capspace isn't going to just hand over their picks for the privilege of Amare's uninsured contract and the bragging rights of facilitating a Dwight trade

And this is completely ignoring that we showed no interest in Dwight before.
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1459 » by GettinitDone » Wed Oct 3, 2012 4:10 am

You're creating your own theory why Orlando made this deal. Please read the SI article below from Rob Hennigan himself why he as Magic GM made this trade.


Orlando was roundly criticized for not getting enough for Howard and accused of bypassing potentially better deals with Brooklyn and Houston.

Afflalo, 26, is the centerpiece of Orlando's haul of six players and five draft picks.

"We love his mindset, love his toughness, love his penchant to compete every day," Hennigan said. "We really feel that he's someone who can set the tone for the organization and help set the tone for the culture and the kind of work ethic and mindset that we want the players to embody. I just really like his makeup."


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... index.html


Again, their emphasis was on changing culture from me-me players like Howard to team players like Afflalo (or Lin).
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Re: OFFICIAL:I **** HATE DOLAN, THIS ORG, MELO, JR, ETC THRE 

Post#1460 » by GONYK » Wed Oct 3, 2012 4:17 am

GettinitDone wrote:You're creating your own theory why Orlando made this deal. Please read the SI article below from Rob Hennigan himself why he as Magic GM made this trade.


Orlando was roundly criticized for not getting enough for Howard and accused of bypassing potentially better deals with Brooklyn and Houston.

Afflalo, 26, is the centerpiece of Orlando's haul of six players and five draft picks.

"We love his mindset, love his toughness, love his penchant to compete every day," Hennigan said. "We really feel that he's someone who can set the tone for the organization and help set the tone for the culture and the kind of work ethic and mindset that we want the players to embody. I just really like his makeup."


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... index.html


Again, their emphasis was on changing culture from me-me players like Howard to team players like Afflalo (or Lin).


No, you're reading waaaaaay too much into a GM making a pretty generic statement that rationalizes a terrible deal that he was more or less forced into, and then thinking that that general sentiment outweighs every single logistic that goes into a trade.

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