Sanchez, Nicholini, Syndergaard (dont mess it up)

number15 · Post #1 » by **number15** » Fri Oct 5, 2012 4:22 pm

The Jays have 3 ace prospects in the minor in these three guys. Unfortunately, they are all suppose to make the majors in 2015 and the Jays likely wont rush any of them after seeing ALverez and Hutchison.

AA knows how good a 3 man combo like this can be as he reportedly turned down EVERYTHING for Sanchez this past deadline. Having these three guys come up eventually, not all at the same time though would make the JAYS a true contender, compared to say trading them for vets and competing for 2-3 years at best.

This is the kind of foundation the Rays are thriving with and the JAYS are on target.

I have a feeling though this offseason, because of Baltimore's success, the Jays failure and the increase in attendance, the Jays might trade 1 or 2 of these guys depending on who they trade for. AA said he wants pitching and these days it takes top pitching prospects to get that kind of deal done.... Hell, Jays gave up 2 more than decent guys for Happ.

I hope they are patient with this 3 man monster combo.

dagger · Post #2 » by **dagger** » Fri Oct 5, 2012 4:34 pm

I agree, but I am loathe to just tie it to specific names. We have some other nice prospects. Smoral, whom we drafted in June but couldn't pitch this year, is very highly regarded. Despite his drug thing, you have to think Stroman has a good shot, sooner than 2015. We have the Latins at Vancouver. And we lack the Jays inside knowledge of these guys' strengths and weaknesses. What the organization feels is more important than what Keith Law or Jim Callis says.

We also have the 10th pick in the next draft, which isn't supposed to be great but has a strength at the top in left handed pitching.

And its hard to say that these three guys make the Jays contenders. Maybe it's Smoral, maybe Alford chooses baseball full time and becomes a better five tool guy than Anthony Gose.

The Rays thriving is not only about pitching. It's about total roster development, and good coaching (I'd take Maddon over Farrell every day of the year and so would 99.9% of the people here).

What I have advocated is focussing on signing or trading for a couple of transitional vets, while sticking to the development plan. There is no reason not to try for a wildcard while still developing good young talent. And yes, good transitional talent, if obtained in trades, might cost a top prospect or two. The key is not to trade the keepers. There was some hand-wringing when we traded Nestor Molina for Sergio Santos, but Molina didn't exactly have an overwhelming year in AA-AAA with the Sox organization. Even with Santos' injury, that doesn't seem like it was a wrong call by Anthopoulos.

number15 · Post #3 » by **number15** » Fri Oct 5, 2012 4:42 pm

dagger wrote:
What I have advocated is focussing on signing or trading for a couple of transitional vets, while sticking to the development plan. There is no reason not to try for a wildcard while still developing good young talent. And yes, good transitional talent, if obtained in trades, might cost a top prospect or two. The key is not to trade the keepers. There was some hand-wringing when we traded Nestor Molina for Sergio Santos, but Molina didn't exactly have an overwhelming year in AA-AAA with the Sox organization. Even with Santos' injury, that doesn't seem like it was a wrong call by Anthopoulos.

I know what you mean, prospects change status year to year. Example, a season earlier the Jays had 4 ace prospects, Sanchez/Nicholini/Syndargaard and Norris............. Norris has fallen off the map and the Jays now have 3 ace prospects left

Smoral and who ever could have a better career down the road.... but its better to risk keeping prospects like these rather than risk trading them.

i dunno, im nervous

Post #4 » by **YogiStewart** » Fri Oct 5, 2012 6:08 pm

Romero was an ace prospect, then he was a bust, and then he was brought to the majors and became an ace (temporarily).
no need to label guys as can't miss or ace prospects. those can't miss prospects usually end up missing.
don't be nervous. let things fall where they may.

and you can't say that Hutchison was rushed. Tommy John surgery likely wasn't due to him being rushed, and he performed really, really well in his limited time w/the Jays.

CapeCrusader · Post #5 » by **CapeCrusader** » Fri Oct 5, 2012 8:30 pm

As highly regarded prospects as they are. At the end of the day, thats all they are untill the prove themselves. As much as I would love to see these guys play and blossom with the Jays. If it takes trading two of these guys for a player like a King Felix, then we'd be stupid not to.

dagger · Post #6 » by **dagger** » Fri Oct 5, 2012 8:35 pm

CapeCrusader wrote: If it takes trading two of these guys for a player like a King Felix, then we'd be stupid not to.

If it only takes those two sign plus lesser prospects sign me up. But I don't see it from Seattle's viewpoint.

baulderdash77 · Post #7 » by **baulderdash77** » Sat Oct 6, 2012 12:22 am

In all honesty only 1 of the Lansing 3 is going to pan out, maybe possibly 2 of them. They are so far away that anything can happen. They could get injured, they could lose effectiveness, they could flame out. They are promising prospects but we can't over value them and refuse a good deal

Santoki · Post #8 » by **Santoki** » Sat Oct 6, 2012 5:07 am

YogiStewart wrote:Romero was an ace prospect, then he was a bust, and then he was brought to the majors and became an ace (temporarily).
no need to label guys as can't miss or ace prospects. those can't miss prospects usually end up missing.
don't be nervous. let things fall where they may.

and you can't say that Hutchison was rushed. Tommy John surgery likely wasn't due to him being rushed, and he performed really, really well in his limited time w/the Jays.

The devil's advocate position I've heard on this as that because he was in the bigs, he felt he needed more on his pitches or to try to do too much with them to battle against big league hitters. This extra strain probably help lead to his injury. I have no idea of the truth behind any of that, but I've heard it posited.

xAIRNESSx · Post #9 » by **xAIRNESSx** » Sat Oct 6, 2012 6:15 am

It's Nicolino. You already messed it up....

Griff83 · Post #10 » by **Griff83** » Sat Oct 6, 2012 7:09 am

I'd have no issues dealing Nicolino.
By far the lowest ceiling of the 3 and prolly profiles as a Jonathan Niese type pitcher (which is solid but nothing spectacular).

Offer ARZ Escobar, Marisnick and Nicolino for Justin Upton.

kavan · Post #11 » by **kavan** » Sun Oct 7, 2012 12:18 pm

Looking forward to the team we put on the field next year injury free!!

Raps in 4 · Post #12 » by **Raps in 4** » Sun Oct 7, 2012 1:32 pm

YogiStewart wrote:Romero was an ace prospect, then he was a bust, and then he was brought to the majors and became an ace (temporarily).
no need to label guys as can't miss or ace prospects. those can't miss prospects usually end up missing.
don't be nervous. let things fall where they may.

This.

Player development in baseball is a crapshoot.

Post #13 » by **YogiStewart** » Sun Oct 7, 2012 2:34 pm

Santoki wrote:
YogiStewart wrote:Romero was an ace prospect, then he was a bust, and then he was brought to the majors and became an ace (temporarily).
no need to label guys as can't miss or ace prospects. those can't miss prospects usually end up missing.
don't be nervous. let things fall where they may.

and you can't say that Hutchison was rushed. Tommy John surgery likely wasn't due to him being rushed, and he performed really, really well in his limited time w/the Jays.

The devil's advocate position I've heard on this as that because he was in the bigs, he felt he needed more on his pitches or to try to do too much with them to battle against big league hitters. This extra strain probably help lead to his injury. I have no idea of the truth behind any of that, but I've heard it posited.

he was upping his velocity with each start, so i can see where that's coming from. but i assume, correctly or not, that the need for TJ surgery doesn't happen overnight...or over a few starts. it would be a while of wear and tear.

dagger · Post #14 » by **dagger** » Sun Oct 7, 2012 3:29 pm

YogiStewart wrote:he was upping his velocity with each start, so i can see where that's coming from. but i assume, correctly or not, that the need for TJ surgery doesn't happen overnight...or over a few starts. it would be a while of wear and tear.

Hard to say, he was doing things he had never done before immediately prior to the injury. So whether it was a buildup that reached a cataclysmic point, or he simply started exceeding his "design capacity", it begs the question of whether it was wise to have him push it like he did. This quote is from a late-May article.

Hutchison is known as a low-90s control pitcher, but against Baltimore his four-seam fastball topped out at 95 and often hit 94. He kept the O’s off-balance with a mid-80s slider.

Manager John Farrell had never seen Hutchison throw 95.

flatjacket1 · Post #15 » by **flatjacket1** » Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:59 am

Griff83 wrote:I'd have no issues dealing Nicolino.
By far the lowest ceiling of the 3 and prolly profiles as a Jonathan Niese type pitcher (which is solid but nothing spectacular).

Offer ARZ Escobar, Marisnick and Nicolino for Justin Upton.

If this was a possibility I'm sure it would of been done. I think we wait a bit more, this next year anyways. Sign a few guys to give us a chance in case some guys carve out real seasons but nothing too crazy. I'd go all in for 2014.