Wilt vs. Duncan?

MJ7 · Post #1 » by **MJ7** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:42 am

On your all time list, who's higher? I'm torn on it.

-Kees- · Post #2 » by **-Kees-** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:42 am

I'll take Duncan. Through and through, he was a winner.

ardee · Post #3 » by **ardee** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:18 am

Wilt.

Better scorer, better rebounder, better passer, and though he was a worse defender for some of his career, when he decided to concentrate on D, like '64, '68 and '72, he was just as good as Duncan.

Unlike Duncan, Wilt didn't get drafted onto a team with another top 20 player. Unlike Duncan, Wilt didn't have a HoF coach right from the start.

They both faced multiple losses to all-time great dynasties led by their main rivals, and both had their day in crushing those rivals in '03 and '67.

Wilt peaked a fair bit higher, and he was a top five player in the league from his rookie year until retirement. Duncan's prime was relatively shorter, only from '99 to '07.

Wilt was better, in every way possible.

JordansBulls · Post #4 » by **JordansBulls** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:30 pm

Duncan. He was able to take an organization that never won anything prior to him arriving to multiple titles whereas Wilt had to be traded twice in order to win.

RayBan-Sematra · Post #5 » by **RayBan-Sematra** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:35 pm

Tim Duncan is higher on my ATList as is O'neal.

ardee · Post #6 » by **ardee** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:43 pm

I'm not seeing people's case for Duncan here.

Wilt had a better peak as well as better longevity. To whoever is picking Duncan over him, do you have any reason other then 'he was a winner'?

primecougar · Post #7 » by **primecougar** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:18 pm

JordansBulls wrote:Duncan. He was able to take an organization that never won anything prior to him arriving to multiple titles whereas Wilt had to be traded twice in order to win.

This is the worst arguement ever and you always say this.

Ps: you also used to say the same about losing with HCA but you dropped that the second your boy Derrick rose got bounced in the playoffs with HCA

ushvinder88 · Post #8 » by **ushvinder88** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:42 pm

Duncan is the better defender throughout thier careers, won more rings and a better team player. I want banners raised, not empty stats.

ardee · Post #9 » by **ardee** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:52 pm

ushvinder88 wrote:Duncan is the better defender throughout thier careers, won more rings and a better team player. I want banners raised, not empty stats.

And if you paired Wilt with a top 6-8 all time player at his position from the get-go, banners is what you'll get.

And Wilt's stats were ANYTHING but empty. He lifted fairly average teams to near-dynasty toppling levels, and when his team-mates improved, he headlined GOAT teams.

ushvinder88 · Post #10 » by **ushvinder88** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:59 pm

ardee wrote:
ushvinder88 wrote:Duncan is the better defender throughout thier careers, won more rings and a better team player. I want banners raised, not empty stats.

And if you paired Wilt with a top 6-8 all time player at his position from the get-go, banners is what you'll get.

And Wilt's stats were ANYTHING but empty. He lifted fairly average teams to near-dynasty toppling levels, and when his team-mates improved, he headlined GOAT teams.

Look pal, i rank players based on what they actually accomplished. Duncan played with d-rob when he was old, jerry west was having the best years of his career when wilt was playing with him. Wilt had one of the most epic choke jobs ever in nba history when he had both west and baylor with him. Duncan's spurs teams from 2001-2003 were hardly elite, as a matter of fact wilt's teams were easily better than those teams.

Lets ignore that in the 1960's, duncan would get to play in a 8-10 team league rather than 29-30 teams. Lets also ignore that the amount of players that were 6'10 or taller from 1960-1966 can be counted on 1 hand. Wilt was 3-5 inches taller than everybody and most defenders back then were slower and unathletic.

sportjames23 · Post #11 » by **sportjames23** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:13 pm

LOL, this is Wilt easily.

"Easily" posts are considered post padding. If you have an opinion, support it. rrravenred

ardee · Post #12 » by **ardee** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:19 pm

ushvinder88 wrote:
ardee wrote:
ushvinder88 wrote:Duncan is the better defender throughout thier careers, won more rings and a better team player. I want banners raised, not empty stats.

And if you paired Wilt with a top 6-8 all time player at his position from the get-go, banners is what you'll get.

And Wilt's stats were ANYTHING but empty. He lifted fairly average teams to near-dynasty toppling levels, and when his team-mates improved, he headlined GOAT teams.

Look pal, i rank players based on what they actually accomplished. Duncan played with d-rob when he was old, jerry west was having the best years of his career when wilt was playing with him. Wilt had one of the most epic choke jobs ever in nba history when he had both west and baylor with him. Duncan's spurs teams from 2001-2003 were hardly elite, as a matter of fact wilt's teams were easily better than those teams.

Lets ignore that in the 1960's, duncan would get to play in a 8-10 team league rather than 29-30 teams. Lets also ignore that the amount of players that were 6'10 or taller from 1960-1966 can be counted on 1 hand. Wilt was 3-5 inches taller than everybody and most defenders back then were slower and unathletic.

OMFG, THAT 'argument' :lol:

?

List of NBA players from '60-'72 who were 6'11 or taller:

Kareem Abdul Jabbar: 7'2"
Dennis Awtrey: 6'11"
Walt Bellamy: 6'11"
Tom Boerwinkle: 7'0"
Nate Bowmen: 6'11"
Mel Counts: 7'0"
Walter Dukes: 7'0"
Jim Eakins: 6'11"
Ray Felix: 6'11"
Hank Finkel: 7'0"
Artis Gilmore: 7'2"
Swede Halbrook: 7'3"
Reggie Harding: 7'0"
Bob Lanier: 6'11"
Jim McDaniels: 6'11"
Otto Moore: 6'11"
Dave Newmark: 7'0"
Rich Niemann: 7'0"
Billy Paultz: 6'11"
Craig Raymond: 6'11"
Elmore Smith: 7'0"
Chuck Share: 6'11"
Ronald Taylor: 7'1"
Nate Thurmond: 6'11"
Walt Wesley: 6'11"

Please research things before posting stuff like that.

ahonui06 · Post #13 » by **ahonui06** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:28 pm

Check your PM. - rrravenred

nikomCH · Post #14 » by **nikomCH** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:34 pm

I have Duncan #5 and Wilt at #8

ushvinder88 · Post #15 » by **ushvinder88** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:39 pm

Actually i did my research. Notice how your criteria is 1960-1972, rather than individual seasons. Why dont you go ahead and name all the players from 1960-1968, that were 6'10 or taller and were playing a minimum of 2000 minutes per season. Ouch that list would get much smaller.

Nba players that were 6'10 or taller from 1960-1968, criteria is minimum of 2000 minutes played.

1960- 1962: Wilt chamberlain, walter dukes, phil jordon
1963 and 1964: Wilt chamberlain, walt bellamy
1965: Wilt, walt bellamy, nate thurmond, leroy ellies, reggie harding, gene wiley
1966: Wilt, walt bellamy, nate thurmond, leroy ellis, joe strawder
1967: Wilt, walt bellamy, nate thurmond, leroy ellis, darrel imhoff, joe strawder
1968: same as 1967 but also includes the mighty legend clyde lee

So essentially wilt was being guarded by walt bellamy, nate thurmond, 6'9 russell and a bunch of scrubs.

ardee · Post #16 » by **ardee** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:54 pm

ushvinder88 wrote:Actually i did my research. Notice how your criteria is 1960-1972, rather than individual seasons. Why dont you go ahead and name all the players from 1960-1968, that were 6'10 or taller and were playing a minimum of 2000 minutes per season. Ouch that list would get much smaller.

Nba players that were 6'10 or taller from 1960-1968, criteria is minimum of 2000 minutes played.

1960- 1962: Wilt chamberlain, walter dukes, phil jordon
1963 and 1964: Wilt chamberlain, walt bellamy
1965: Wilt, walt bellamy, nate thurmond, leroy ellies, reggie harding, gene wiley
1966: Wilt, walt bellamy, nate thurmond, leroy ellis, joe strawder

Because that's the extent of Wilt's career as a star?

If height is so important to you, look at today's NBA. How many star players would be taller then Wilt's 7'1?

Go ahead, check.

I'm waiting, it's cool.

Yeah, the answer is 0. Bynum, Marc, Pau and Nowitzki are all 7'0. Howard and Garnett are 6'11. Love is 6'10.

So even in today's NBA, Wilt would be facing players mostly shorter then him. So it's not just in the 60s.

ushvinder88 · Post #17 » by **ushvinder88** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:59 pm

ardee wrote:
ushvinder88 wrote:Actually i did my research. Notice how your criteria is 1960-1972, rather than individual seasons. Why dont you go ahead and name all the players from 1960-1968, that were 6'10 or taller and were playing a minimum of 2000 minutes per season. Ouch that list would get much smaller.

Nba players that were 6'10 or taller from 1960-1968, criteria is minimum of 2000 minutes played.

1960- 1962: Wilt chamberlain, walter dukes, phil jordon
1963 and 1964: Wilt chamberlain, walt bellamy
1965: Wilt, walt bellamy, nate thurmond, leroy ellies, reggie harding, gene wiley
1966: Wilt, walt bellamy, nate thurmond, leroy ellis, joe strawder

Because that's the extent of Wilt's career as a star?

If height is so important to you, look at today's NBA. How many star players would be taller then Wilt's 7'1?

Go ahead, check.

I'm waiting, it's cool.

Yeah, the answer is 0. Bynum, Marc, Pau and Nowitzki are all 7'0. Howard and Garnett are 6'11. Love is 6'10.

So even in today's NBA, Wilt would be facing players mostly shorter then him. So it's not just in the 60s.

There are alot of players nowadays that are 6'10 and over, from 1960 to 1968 it can literally be counted on 1 hand. Almost every starting center and power forward these days is 6'10 to 7 feet. In wilt's era, most were 6'7 to 6'9. Why dont u go ahead and name all nba players these days that are 6'11 and taller than compare it to wilt's era.

Tim Duncan throughout his career from 1998-2010 had to play against shaq, garnett, dirk, dwight, alonzo, d-rob, amare, pau, yao ming, c-webb, lamarcus aldrige, dikembe mutombo, carlos boozer chris bosh. All 6'10 or taller. Wilt had nate thurmond, walt bellammy and 6'9 russell from 1960 to 1969, yeah such a comparable group, lol.

Raaccoonn · Post #18 » by **Raaccoonn** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:09 pm

When Wilt was a high scorer his competition was pitiful.

His only real competition was a defensive specialist and most of the other guys didn't even play heavy minutes which means Wilt (who played 48mpg) would often be beating up on even lower quality backups.

Not to mention he had a good 30-70lbs on most of his opponents.

Wilt looked incredibly awkward dribbling the ball with his back to the basket and his footwork wasn't very good.
Reports that I have read from back then show he was stripped quite frequently.

His skill in the post was also very limited compared to guys like Hakeem, Shaq and Kareem.

He was effective mostly due to his length/size/athletic advantages which would not be nearly as potent in other eras.
Even with those advantages he was held below 50% in his first 3 years in the playoffs where he couldn't pad his stats against the worst competition... pitiful.

Wilt was posting empty stats for most of his early career and his only big impact seasons came towards the end of his career.
He only won on ultra stacked teams and in a limited offensive role.

Most overrated player of All-Time imo.

Duncan's career value is so much greater then Wilt's I dont see how you could possibly not rank him higher.

thizznation · Post #19 » by **thizznation** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:15 pm

On RealGM in 2006, Wilt was the GOAT. Two years later he starts getting discussed with Kareem and Bill Russell. Now Wilt is getting compared with Shaq and Duncan. I'm guessing around 2014 is when we will be seeing our first Wilt vs Patrick Ewing discussions.

C-izMe · Post #20 » by **C-izMe** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm

Duncan easily. He's won more with worse teams, wasn't a cancer, and isn't a failure.