Chicago Bulls Medical Staff - No Progress?

[LobosJordan]

Noah, and ESPECIALLY the subsequent decision to clear him to return after that horrible ankle vs the sixers was inexcusable. Even if you allow him back in BASED on his word, anyone with eyes could see that he was not okay and that the risk of making it worse was high after only one trip down the court. And yet not only did they clear him to return, they allowed him to stay in long enough to do just that......make it much worse.....

Let me guess, you never played sports, right?

This is a classic reply from somebody who usually has lost the argument.

[Seinfeld]

Noah, and ESPECIALLY the subsequent decision to clear him to return after that horrible ankle vs the sixers was inexcusable. Even if you allow him back in BASED on his word, anyone with eyes could see that he was not okay and that the risk of making it worse was high after only one trip down the court. And yet not only did they clear him to return, they allowed him to stay in long enough to do just that......make it much worse.....

Let me guess, you never played sports, right?

This is a classic reply from somebody who usually has lost the argument.

LMAO, no I'm trying to find out if he ever went back into a game after getting hurt. JMSO, but only a wimp who never played anything would have a problem with Noah trying to get back in the game last year.

if you were a competitive athlete and wouldn't even try it, I thank God you were never my teammate.

[Seinfeld]

LOL, besides Noah walked off the court with very little limp, and Stacey and Funk both said he'll just get it retaped.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQKHkei1Ra8&feature=related[/youtube]


Some people act like he went out there with a fractured ankle and fibia?

[johnnyvann840]

Noah, and ESPECIALLY the subsequent decision to clear him to return after that horrible ankle vs the sixers was inexcusable. Even if you allow him back in BASED on his word, anyone with eyes could see that he was not okay and that the risk of making it worse was high after only one trip down the court. And yet not only did they clear him to return, they allowed him to stay in long enough to do just that......make it much worse.....

Let me guess, you never played sports, right?

Noah should not have been left in that game after watching him for 10 seconds let alone for the extent he was allowed to play. I played sports my whole life and could see that... didn't take a genius to realize it was a mistake and further aggravated the injury.

[johnnyvann840]

LOL, besides Noah walked off the court with very little limp, and Stacey and Funk both said he'll just get it retaped.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQKHkei1Ra8&feature=related[/youtube]


Some people act like he went out there with a fractured ankle and fibia?

What that vid doesn't show is him TRYING to play after he went back in. It was obvious he was hurt... seriously hurt.

[Seinfeld]

Noah, and ESPECIALLY the subsequent decision to clear him to return after that horrible ankle vs the sixers was inexcusable. Even if you allow him back in BASED on his word, anyone with eyes could see that he was not okay and that the risk of making it worse was high after only one trip down the court. And yet not only did they clear him to return, they allowed him to stay in long enough to do just that......make it much worse.....

Let me guess, you never played sports, right?

Noah should not have been left in that game after watching him for 10 seconds let alone for the extent he was allowed to play. I played sports my whole life and could see that... didn't take a genius to realize it was a mistake and further aggravated the injury.

Noah was done for the series as soon as he twitsted that ankle.

As soon as the tape came off, that ankle blew up and I would imagine wouldn't fit in a shoe for a week.

And NO, as long as they re-taped it tighter, he was going to do ZERO more damage to the ankle, as long as there wasn't a broken bone.

This was SOP, as this tread will show in due time. Just so long as anyone notes a ramdom injury story the run into, one where the doctor's actions, etc would lead to merciless criticism if the Bulls' doctors did the same thing.

[johnnyvann840]

Noah was done for the series as soon as he twitsted that ankle.

As soon as the tape came off, that ankle blew up and I would imagine wouldn't fit in a shoe for a week.

And NO, as long as they re-taped it tighter, he was going to do ZERO more damage to the ankle, as long as there wasn't a broken bone.

This was SOP, as this tread will show in due time. Just so long as anyone notes a ramdom injury story the run into, one where the doctor's actions, etc would lead to merciless criticism if the Bulls' doctors did the same thing.

Not saying it was even the doctor's actions. Combination of the coaching staff and the training/med staff. We just don't know how much more damage was done... besides, he was not helping the team at that point, at all (actually hurting them limping around like he was), and he still stayed on the floor for quite a while. Frankly, I couldn't believe it was happening.

[Seinfeld]

Noah was done for the series as soon as he twitsted that ankle.

As soon as the tape came off, that ankle blew up and I would imagine wouldn't fit in a shoe for a week.

And NO, as long as they re-taped it tighter, he was going to do ZERO more damage to the ankle, as long as there wasn't a broken bone.

This was SOP, as this tread will show in due time. Just so long as anyone notes a ramdom injury story the run into, one where the doctor's actions, etc would lead to merciless criticism if the Bulls' doctors did the same thing.

Not saying it was even the doctor's actions. Combination of the coaching staff and the training/med staff. We just don't know how much more damage was done... besides, he was not helping the team at that point, at all (actually hurting them limping around like he was), and he still stayed on the floor for quite a while. Frankly, I couldn't believe it was happening.

I guess if 2:06 is your definition of "quite a while", then yeah, he was on the floor quite a while when he came back in the fourth quarter. The Bulls got steamrolled 4-2 by the Sixers while Noah was out there in a wheelchair, and Thibs called TO and got Noah out of the game.

[johnnyvann840]

Noah was done for the series as soon as he twitsted that ankle.

As soon as the tape came off, that ankle blew up and I would imagine wouldn't fit in a shoe for a week.

And NO, as long as they re-taped it tighter, he was going to do ZERO more damage to the ankle, as long as there wasn't a broken bone.

This was SOP, as this tread will show in due time. Just so long as anyone notes a ramdom injury story the run into, one where the doctor's actions, etc would lead to merciless criticism if the Bulls' doctors did the same thing.

Not saying it was even the doctor's actions. Combination of the coaching staff and the training/med staff. We just don't know how much more damage was done... besides, he was not helping the team at that point, at all (actually hurting them limping around like he was), and he still stayed on the floor for quite a while. Frankly, I couldn't believe it was happening.

I guess if 2:06 is your definition of "quite a while", then yeah, he was on the floor quite a while when he came back in the fourth quarter. The Bulls got steamrolled 4-2 by the Sixers while Noah was out there in a wheelchair, and Thibs called TO and got Noah out of the game.

Like I said, 10 seconds was enough for me to see he shouldn't be playing and I was only watching it on TV. 2:06 of an NBA playoff game is a long time and several trips up and down the floor and plenty of starts and stops and cuts.

[bullsnewdynasty]

Noah should have never re-entered the game. There's really no excuse that can justify that kind of stupidity from the training staff. But according to a certain poster on this board, the Chicago Bulls organization can never be criticized by its fans. Everything they do is fine and dandy. They always make the right decision. You can't ever question their decisions. All fans should do is wave pom poms and foam fingers.

[Seinfeld]

Coldfish-

I want to apologize to you, I am not trying to call you out or anything, I try not to even use names when I quote responses for that very reason. I try not to care who is making a point, I just go by the point that is being made.

Again my apologies, no offense meant, and if I do it again be sure to call me out on it.

That being said, my only interest in this thread is showing that many of the things that the Bulls' staff is being accused of doing "wrong" are things that happen every day in the world of professional sports. I don't care to look at the past, but if we start paying attention to how injuries are actually handled by other organizations, I have a feeling that we'll see that the Bulls pretty much go with the Standard Operating Procedure.

The Palomalu case, for example, I haven't seen one response about the Steeler's staff for doing the same thing the Bulls are getting ripped on for.

I'm just saying that I'm going to show over time that what the Bulls staff does is nothing out of the ordinary. As we will see once anyone actually pays attention to other staffs.

Feel free to rip the Bulls organization for something legit- hell, personally I think they're idiots to make Derrick tape his ankles instead of wearing braces.

But come on, re-taping Noah's ankles and letting him give it another go- again, the future will show how ridiculous it is to bitch about it.

[transplant]

Noah was done for the series as soon as he twitsted that ankle.

As soon as the tape came off, that ankle blew up and I would imagine wouldn't fit in a shoe for a week.

And NO, as long as they re-taped it tighter, he was going to do ZERO more damage to the ankle, as long as there wasn't a broken bone.

This was SOP...

Agree with all of this. It was a bad sprain. He likely would not be able to walk on it the next day, but it truly is SOP to tightly re-tape and let the player give it a go. Further damage is unlikely and the hour or so after the injury, but before swelling makes you a cripple, is the only time in the next 10 days when that player may be able to give you something.

This said, I agree with everyone who said that, once we saw Noah return to the game, it didn't take very long for me to scream at the TV, "Thibs, get him outta there!"

[coldfish]

@seinfeld

Fair enough. Perhaps I got a little over the top with my criticism at times. That being said, I stand by my base assertion that what happened last season was outside the norm and a poor reflection on the training and medical staff. I'm not talking about specific incidents but the volume of specific incidents.

For example:
- Noah's ankle situation, taken by itself would be something that could normally happen to a team.
- Rose's back situation, taken by itself would be something that could normally happen to a team.
- Rip's hamstring situation, taken by itself would be something that could normally happen to a team.

That's a lot of events for one team in one season IMO and when you have that many issues at a time, you start going back and re-thinking things like Deng's injury.

I really don't know what happens behind the scenes and I'm not a doctor. I have no ability whatsoever to judge the competence of the medical and training staff with my knowledge and information. That being said, I do have eyes and I watch sports. I know that what happened last year, when taken in total, was not normal. My only hope is that someone on the inside who does have the knowledge and information to make a judgment looks into the situation, the competence, the practices, etc. and makes a decision that is in the best long term interest of the team.

[DaeDae]

This is a classic reply from somebody who usually has lost the argument.

LMAO, no I'm trying to find out if he ever went back into a game after getting hurt. JMSO, but only a wimp who never played anything would have a problem with Noah trying to get back in the game last year.

if you were a competitive athlete and wouldn't even try it, I thank God you were never my teammate.

LOL, I played basketball for 16 years, from the time I was 3, to competitively playing at 6, all the way up through high school and college. I went to college on an athletic scholarship. Lettered in both sports in HS (twice in basketball).

You can remove the foot from your mouth at any time.

To answer your ridiculous premise: Of course I played on bad wheels. But I didn't have doctors (did I mention I'm almost DONE with MEDICAL Training--I start my residency in as a full-fledged doctor in 8 months), who clearly know better giving me "on court advice". And as someone who has had every kind of sports injury you can imagine, in conjunction with my medical training, I could tell ALMOST IMMEDIATELY that Noah had no business out there. By his 3rd trip down the court, it was patently obvious.

Needless to say, I am so much more qualified, given my background and education to speak on this issue, than the average fan (a category that you likely belong to) that it doesn't even bear the merit of a back and forth. And with that, I end my portion of our dialogue.

[DaeDae]

The Palomalu case, for example, I haven't seen one response about the Steeler's staff for doing the same thing the Bulls are getting ripped on for.

Could it be because almost nobody here cares about the Steelers?

[DaeDae]

This said, I agree with everyone who said that, once we saw Noah return to the game, it didn't take very long for me to scream at the TV, "Thibs, get him outta there!"

This is the only part that matters for me. Nobody had a problem with him coming back in. MY problem was with him STAYING in. Two trips down and it merited a time out. Or giving a foul. Or anything. But allowing him to continue playing, was absurd.

And I disagree with the notion that you risk no "further damage" by allowing him to continue. Perhaps not to his ankle, but almost certainly, virtually every other portion of his lower body was placed at risk, as he attempted to overcompensate for a bad wheel. Now that is a risk that we all take when we play sports at anything other than 100%. But to say there was NO risks is not factually accurate.

[Seinfeld]

LMAO, no I'm trying to find out if he ever went back into a game after getting hurt. JMSO, but only a wimp who never played anything would have a problem with Noah trying to get back in the game last year.

if you were a competitive athlete and wouldn't even try it, I thank God you were never my teammate.

LOL, I played basketball for 16 years, from the time I was 3, to competitively playing at 6, all the way up through high school and college. I went to college on an athletic scholarship. Lettered in both sports in HS (twice in basketball).

You can remove the foot from your mouth at any time.

Why would I remove my foot, since it was never in my mouth? I asked a simple question.

To answer your ridiculous premise: Of course I played on bad wheels. But I didn't have doctors (did I mention I'm almost DONE with MEDICAL Training--I start my residency in as a full-fledged doctor in 8 months), who clearly know better giving me "on court advice".

Wow, we're all very impressed. I didn't know that DeVry offered medical degrees online, but good for you.

I would think someone who is 'nearly a doctor' would know that what happened with Noah is Standard Operating Procedure. They did an x-ray and saw that there wasn't a break, so they taped it tighter and let him try to go. Like any reputable doctor from a real medical school would have done.

And you still haven't denied that any professional trainer/doctor would have done the same thing. Maybe before your next class, you can email your "professor" and he can tell you the same thing.

And as someone who has had every kind of sports injury you can imagine, in conjunction with my medical training, I could tell ALMOST IMMEDIATELY that Noah had no business out there. By his 3rd trip down the court, it was patently obvious.

By his 3rd trip down the court? You mean how he made three trips down the floor, and after the third one Thib called a TO to get him out of the game? Yeah we all noticed, and we're not even almost doctors.

Needless to say, I am so much more qualified, given my background and education to speak on this issue, than the average fan (a category that you likely belong to) that it doesn't even bear the merit of a back and forth. And with that, I end my portion of our dialogue.

Yet even with all of your "qualifications", you apparently can't figure out that any professional trainer in any sport would have done the same thing.

[Seinfeld]

Like I said, 10 seconds was enough for me to see he shouldn't be playing and I was only watching it on TV. 2:06 of an NBA playoff game is a long time and several trips up and down the floor and plenty of starts and stops and cuts.

Uhhhhh, no.

Let's try THREE trips.
The Bulls had the ball when Noah came back (and HE SCORED on that trip, FWIW).
The Bulls went back on defense.
The Bulls came back on offense.
The Bulls went back on defense. Philly scored on that trip, and Thibs called TO immediately and took Noah out of the game.

[johnnyvann840]

Like I said, 10 seconds was enough for me to see he shouldn't be playing and I was only watching it on TV. 2:06 of an NBA playoff game is a long time and several trips up and down the floor and plenty of starts and stops and cuts.

Uhhhhh, no.

Let's try THREE trips.
The Bulls had the ball when Noah came back (and HE SCORED on that trip, FWIW).
The Bulls went back on defense.
The Bulls came back on offense.
The Bulls went back on defense. Philly scored on that trip, and Thibs called TO immediately and took Noah out of the game.

Uhhhhh,

sev·er·al/ˈsev(ə)rəl/
Adjective:
a : more than one <several pleas>
b : more than two but fewer than many <moved several inches>

[Seinfeld]

The Palomalu case, for example, I haven't seen one response about the Steeler's staff for doing the same thing the Bulls are getting ripped on for.

Could it be because almost nobody here cares about the Steelers?

Could it be that the Bulls aren't the only medical staff in professional sports that clears a player, only to see him get hurt almost immediately after being cleared, causing him to miss even more time?

It's much easier to rip on the Bulls' staff if you ignore the reality of what happens in the rest of the world.

But this is America, it's certainly your right to completely ignore any facts that would contradict your side of the agrumdntl'''