2012 Debate: Jefferson or Millsap

[StocktonShorts]

I think this will be a major storyline this year until the Jazz resolve it: which guy will the franchise look to keep after this season?

I'd like your thoughts on a question I haven't seen frequently discussed:

Who will provide better value on his next contract, Millsap or Jefferson?

I think the answer may be Jefferson. It's very possible that both players will get similar deals (within 10%) and I feel like he still has things in his game he can improve on mentally whereas Millsap has reached his potential and is bounded by his physical limitations (he's the second-shortest guy in the Jazz's starting lineup).

[SoCalJazzFan]

100 "experts" think you might be right.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/nba ... -utah-jazz

Favors seems to be more defensively inclined and lacks offense, which one would think would compliment Al's lack of defense but great offense. However, I've seen stats that suggest that the combined defense of Favors and Sap is the best combo. I am surprised that we are not seeing more minutes of Favors combined with Sap or Al to get a better feel for it during preseason. Maybe they've already made up their minds??

[QuantumMacgyver]

I think this will be a major storyline this year until the Jazz resolve it: which guy will the franchise look to keep after this season?

I'd like your thoughts on a question I haven't seen frequently discussed:

Who will provide better value on his next contract, Millsap or Jefferson?

I think the answer may be Jefferson. It's very possible that both players will get similar deals (within 10%) and I feel like he still has things in his game he can improve on mentally whereas Millsap has reached his potential and is bounded by his physical limitations (he's the second-shortest guy in the Jazz's starting lineup).

He's shorter than both Mo AND Hayward?

[red4hf]

I think which-ever of the two plays better with Favors should stay.......

[StocktonShorts]

I think this will be a major storyline this year until the Jazz resolve it: which guy will the franchise look to keep after this season?

I'd like your thoughts on a question I haven't seen frequently discussed:

Who will provide better value on his next contract, Millsap or Jefferson?

I think the answer may be Jefferson. It's very possible that both players will get similar deals (within 10%) and I feel like he still has things in his game he can improve on mentally whereas Millsap has reached his potential and is bounded by his physical limitations (he's the second-shortest guy in the Jazz's starting lineup).

He's shorter than both Mo AND Hayward?

He's shorter than Hayward, Marvin and Jefferson. Taller than Mo williams. Hence "second-shortest"

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

I think Jefferson gives you more because of his size, length and ability to score in the post consistently... but I'm not sure if we re-sign either of them. Millsap could be the better value guy for the Jazz if he's willing to come off the bench for the rest of his career... but how much money he's going to want is going to be a big issue.

[erudite23]

I think the two are actually quite similar in terms of overall value, but the fact that Jefferson doesn't have the dreaded 'undersized' label on his resume makes a huge difference. Also, Jefferson is a volume scorer, which almost always results in a guy being overpaid and overvalued in the market place.

I think Millsap gets a 10m/per deal. I think Jefferson gets about 15. To me, this is an easy question. You keep Millsap because he is a better value and fits in better with Kanter and Favors. He's also a great leader, an incredibly hard worker, and just the kind of guy you want on your team. Jefferson is none of those things.

If things play out just right, the Jazz could parlay Al Jefferson into a real asset at the trade deadline. Then over the summer, bundle cap relief, picks, and players to get a legitimate stud. If we are able to rope a guy like James Harden, Stephen Curry, or Ty Lawson in, or turn the assets into a shot at Shabaz in the draft, it could be the difference between becoming a playoff contender versus a championship contender down the line.

To me, the move is and always has been Jefferson. I think the Jazz tipped their hand when they engaged Sap in extension conversations, as well. It will likely come down to market conditions at the deadline. If the right situation plays out, maybe we get really lucky.

[QuantumMacgyver]

I think this will be a major storyline this year until the Jazz resolve it: which guy will the franchise look to keep after this season?

I'd like your thoughts on a question I haven't seen frequently discussed:

Who will provide better value on his next contract, Millsap or Jefferson?

I think the answer may be Jefferson. It's very possible that both players will get similar deals (within 10%) and I feel like he still has things in his game he can improve on mentally whereas Millsap has reached his potential and is bounded by his physical limitations (he's the second-shortest guy in the Jazz's starting lineup).

He's shorter than both Mo AND Hayward?

He's shorter than Hayward, Marvin and Jefferson. Taller than Mo williams. Hence "second-shortest"

I understand what "second-shortest" means. I was genuinely asking if he was indeed shorter than Hayward.

[StocktonShorts]

He's shorter than both Mo AND Hayward?

He's shorter than Hayward, Marvin and Jefferson. Taller than Mo williams. Hence "second-shortest"

I understand what "second-shortest" means. I was genuinely asking if he was indeed shorter than Hayward.

You asked if he was shorter than Hayward AND Mo, which would imply he's the shortest. But if really your question is "WTF? He's shorter than Hayward?" then the answer appears to be "yes, if you trust draft combine measurements."

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Paul-Millsap-299/

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Gor ... ward-5514/

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Marvin-Williams-59/

21-year-old Paul Millsap measure 6'6.25" w/o shoes.
20-year-old Gordon Hayward measured 6'6.75" w/o shoes.
19-year-old Marvin Williams measured 6'7" w/o shoes.

[StocktonShorts]

I think Millsap gets a 10m/per deal. I think Jefferson gets about 15. To me, this is an easy question. You keep Millsap because he is a better value and fits in better with Kanter and Favors.

If those are the numbers then I think it's a pretty good call to keep Millsap. But what if it's $12M and $14M? Do you keep either? What if you could have either one for $10M?

[erudite23]

Well, if Millsap is going for 12m, you need to start thinking about moving him. I think he's worth it on the right team, but paying players like him that kind of coin is what relegates a lot of teams to mediocrity. Jefferson is more valuable in some aspects. You can build your offense around him and have it work, sort of. I mean, you'll never be a real threat to win anything significant, but he can at least pull it off. Millsap can never be a #1 option. That's why some people think that Jefferson is the better player by a mile.

My point of view is that it doesn't matter if he can be a #1 if he can't be one for a contender.

But I digress. I would not pay Millsap more than 12m per, but I'm certain that Jefferson will get more than that. If its those numbers, maybe you look to move both of them. If both were somehow available for 10, I think maybe you keep Jefferson, because he would yield more on the trade market given that kind of contract. I still think his best use is as a 3rd option on a team that has two lethal shooters/scorers on the wings. Boston would be a GREAT fit. I also think he'd be dynamite in Toronto. If you had him for 10m a season on a team like that, he would be deadly and an amazing value.

But the chances of him getting less than 13 are so long (barring injury) that its not really even worth discussing. Millsap, though, being as undervalued as he is, presents a great investment.

[Inigo Montoya]

Millsap, though, being as undervalued as he is, presents a great investment.

well, since he declined 8M per season, he is not going to be undervalued anymore because he is looking for more than that (assuming he'll get it). Above 8M, he is no longer undervalued, and less of a bargain. is he going to be underpaid at 10M+ ?

[HolyToledo]

Neither as they sign Dwight Howard and CP3!

[Luigi]

I think all 4 of the bigs are fighting for a future with the Jazz, and I like it that way.

If Al works out with all the three-point shooters this year, and he doesn't ask much on the market, we should keep him.
If Millsap continues to bruise other players and again gets underpaid, we should probably keep him.
If Favors doesn't show improvement, and it comes time to extend his contract, we should probably let him go.
If Kanter continues to add moves in the low post, we should probably keep him.

Hopefully next summer we'll end up with 2 or 3 of those guys at the right price and development. But I think management has and should continue to put all four in the competition.

[The59Sound]

Favors ain't goin' nowhere.

[Luigi]

Favors ain't goin' nowhere.

If he ends up being the worst of the 4, would you still want to keep him?

[Neon Black]

Got to agree with @erudite on all counts.

[The59Sound]

Favors ain't goin' nowhere.

If he ends up being the worst of the 4, would you still want to keep him?

He won't end up being the worst of the four. In fact, his defense is already the best of the four by a hundred miles, so even if he failed to develop offensively, which he won't, he'd still be a keeper.

[roll]

It's very possible that both players will get similar deals (within 10%)

I don't think so. Difference will be 15-25m on full contract. Millsap, 27-28, is great supporting player. He is 50/5 guy at this age. Some desperately needing in low-post threat team (Bulls-Buzer case) can give much more to Big Al.

[reapaman]

Well as players, its clear imo that Jefferson is better player by a mile simply due to him being a more suitable #1 option (although its true we all want a better #1 but he is what we got).

And I wouldn't be able to stomach Millsap at 10 mil +. Most people believe Millsap is best suited as a backup and you don't pay backups 10 mil + unless they are manu.

As for jefferson, yea he could be paid alot more money than we are willing to give but don't forget we are utah jazz fans and not laker fans. Star players don't fall into our lap and we don't have another surefire #1 option on the roster. If you have someone somewhat close to a #1 option then you keep them until you find something better. I mean you don't wanna finacially staggle hold yourself but at the same time guys who are better than Jefferson don't regulary come here so we should not be too tight with our money with Jefferson either.

Plus lets remember this is the same guy who turned down a max contract offer from the wolves soley because he didn't felt he deserved it yet. While he may be offered around 15 mil and I do believe many player go where the money is, its not set in stone. The guy wants to be loved and appreciated after not getting it with the wolves/celtics so utah should show it to them and who knows, he may give us a huge discount.

As for Favors and Kanter (well one or the other), they should not be given major minutues by taking away Millsap/Jefferson, they gotta earn them during regular season and especially post season play.