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Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" Ed.)

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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1241 » by Bensational » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:00 am

thelead wrote:
Bensational wrote:that's where i think the analytics will really come into play. i think we'll see some very smart basketball from the team this year, where players aren't necessarily aiming to get a complete stop, but are aiming to direct players to the most inefficient scoring positions. it might look lazy at times, and might look like we're giving them open looks, but i think it will all be by design. You don't need as much lateral quickness if you're just shepherding players, as opposed to trying to stop them individually.


Directing them where though? This is how its going to go down: opposing pg blows by jameer, bbd leaves his man to stop the ball, opposing player passes to bbd's man for an open jumpshot. If afflalo rotates, he gives up an open three. If Vuc rotates, we give up an open dunk. Jameer is not quick, afflalo isn't quick, hedo is the antithesis of quick, bbd is only quick to run to a mcdonalds, and vuc isn't the quickest either. I don't see rotations working very well.

This could all very well change is we see more of Harkless/Moore, but the very fact that we have to hope that unproven players play is very inditing to our situation.


I think the defense will be more a case of directing the opposition to particular areas, regardless of whether or not another player can rotate to cover or defend. Jameer is quick enough to keep most other PGs from getting straight to the rim, but that might mean he's giving up a lot of space by playing off his man, and what would appear to be an open look. But that open look isn't so bad if we know that player shoots significantly lower than average from that spot.

It all sounds like the basics of defense, but the difference will be that we'll have solid, quantifiable numbers to support where and why players should be allowed to shoot certain shots.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1242 » by Nyce_1 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:24 am

Oklahoma City Thunder: DeAndre Liggins the biggest surprise in Thunder camp

Through three preseason games, last year's 53rd overall pick has been the most pleasant surprise of all 19 players in Thunder camp.
“He plays defense with everything he has,” said Thunder coach Scott Brooks. “And you love guys that play with their hearts out every possession.”

“He's a workhorse, man. I love him,” said Kevin Durant. “He's just quiet, comes in and does his job and plays hard every possession. You can tell he's a guy that's tough and has been that way his whole life. You can just tell by how he plays that he's been working from the bottom to get to the top his whole life. People have counted him out, I'm sure, but he continues to keep beating the odds and he's having a really, really good preseason.”

In the meantime, Liggins has played like a man fighting to put food on his table.

Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-thunder ... z29cKqOlCM


:nonono: Happy for him though. Hope he makes the roster.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1243 » by SOUL » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:47 am

Kendrick Lamar made a song about Arron Afflalo lol, well at least his first verse.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1244 » by SOUL » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:05 am

"I used to be jealous of Arron Afflalo
I used to be jealous of Arron Afflalo..
He was the one to follow, he was the only leader for seeing brighter tomorrows
He would live in the gym, we was living in sorrow
Total envy of him
He made his dream become reality, actually making it possible to swim..
His way up out of Compton, with furthermore to accomplish
Graduate with honors, a sponsor, a basketball scholar
It's 2004 and I'm watching him score thirty
Remember vividly how them victory points had hurt me
Cause every basket was a reaction or a reminder
That we was just moving backwards, the bungalow's where you'd find us
The art of us ditching classes, headed nowhere fast
Stick my head inside the study hall, he focused on math
Determination, ambition, plus dedication and wisdom
Qualities he was given, was the **** we didn't have
Dug inside of his bookbag, and Coach Palmer asked for his finals
He had his back like a spinal, meanwhile we singin' the same old song, spinnin' the vinyl
11th graders gone wrong, he focused on the NBA, we focused on some patron
Now watch that Black Boy Fly"
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1245 » by Def Swami » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:18 am

Saint Nicolas wrote:"I used to be jealous of Arron Afflalo
I used to be jealous of Arron Afflalo..
He was the one to follow, he was the only leader for seeing brighter tomorrows
He would live in the gym, we was living in sorrow
Total envy of him
He made his dream become reality, actually making it possible to swim..
His way up out of Compton, with furthermore to accomplish
Graduate with honors, a sponsor, a basketball scholar
It's 2004 and I'm watching him score thirty
Remember vividly how them victory points had hurt me
Cause every basket was a reaction or a reminder
That we was just moving backwards, the bungalow's where you'd find us
The art of us ditching classes, headed nowhere fast
Stick my head inside the study hall, he focused on math
Determination, ambition, plus dedication and wisdom
Qualities he was given, was the **** we didn't have
Dug inside of his bookbag, and Coach Palmer asked for his finals
He had his back like a spinal, meanwhile we singin' the same old song, spinnin' the vinyl
11th graders gone wrong, he focused on the NBA, we focused on some patron
Now watch that Black Boy Fly"

Just listened to the verse, dope album so far from what I've listened to.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1246 » by RYgoBOOM » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:11 pm

Wow never seen so much butthurt just from a simple opinion.....

A lot of people have the raptors placing decent this year, I can't say the same for our team. For some reason there are a lot of you in here that somehow think we will be a 35+ to 40 win team which is laughable. Even if somehow a miracle happened and we did win 40 games I don't get how that's beneficial.......we shouldn't want 35 wins to happen at all. Which I'd hope most people understand by now?

Regardless I just feel we will be worse than most of you do...no biggie or harm done, just my opinion is all.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1247 » by Last Guardian » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:42 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:Afflalo isn't as athletic or as quick as people make him out to be without even seeing him yet. He is better than JRich and nice solid player, but he is being severely overrated here. He isn't all-star caliber but will be fundamentally sound with good chemistry.


Except of course no one made him out to be exceptionally athletic or quick. This comment pretty much came out of nowhere and makes little sense. Seems like you are just arguing with yourself, lol. Afflalo was mentioned sure but it was about his defense. No one seemed to have said he was an athletic freak all-star player.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1248 » by Cigamodnalro » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:23 pm

Maalik Wayns in beast mode. What a great backup PG he forecasts to be.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1249 » by RYgoBOOM » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:07 pm

Cigamodnalro wrote:Maalik Wayns in beast mode. What a great backup PG he forecasts to be.

This^^^^

He played great this summer too don't know why we didn't sign him!
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1250 » by BadMofoPimp » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:17 pm

Last Guardian wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:Afflalo isn't as athletic or as quick as people make him out to be without even seeing him yet. He is better than JRich and nice solid player, but he is being severely overrated here. He isn't all-star caliber but will be fundamentally sound with good chemistry.


Except of course no one made him out to be exceptionally athletic or quick. This comment pretty much came out of nowhere and makes little sense. Seems like you are just arguing with yourself, lol. Afflalo was mentioned sure but it was about his defense. No one seemed to have said he was an athletic freak all-star player.


Except, people keep making him out to be a game changer once he is inserted into the lineup. The reason he is average on defense is because of his lack of athleticism and quickness.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1251 » by ChosenSavior » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:19 pm

RYgoBOOM wrote:
Cigamodnalro wrote:Maalik Wayns in beast mode. What a great backup PG he forecasts to be.

This^^^^

He played great this summer too don't know why we didn't sign him!


He wanted to play for his hometown team, that's why. He's from Philly.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1252 » by Def Swami » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:29 pm

ChosenSavior wrote:
RYgoBOOM wrote:
Cigamodnalro wrote:Maalik Wayns in beast mode. What a great backup PG he forecasts to be.

This^^^^

He played great this summer too don't know why we didn't sign him!


He wanted to play for his hometown team, that's why. He's from Philly.

Doesn't matter! Fire Hennigan! :-x
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1253 » by ChosenSavior » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:49 pm

^^ :lol:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1254 » by RickB-Orlando » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:08 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
Last Guardian wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:Afflalo isn't as athletic or as quick as people make him out to be without even seeing him yet. He is better than JRich and nice solid player, but he is being severely overrated here. He isn't all-star caliber but will be fundamentally sound with good chemistry.


Except of course no one made him out to be exceptionally athletic or quick. This comment pretty much came out of nowhere and makes little sense. Seems like you are just arguing with yourself, lol. Afflalo was mentioned sure but it was about his defense. No one seemed to have said he was an athletic freak all-star player.


Except, people keep making him out to be a game changer once he is inserted into the lineup. The reason he is average on defense is because of his lack of athleticism and quickness.

"Game Changer" is an interesting term. He will change game results once he's healthy as he frees up JJ to move to the bench, he's a fairly efficient scorer and doesn't detract on defense. That does change games.

If you think of "Game Changer" as an all-star, then no, he probably won't be doing that. He may, however, take a significant part of the scoring load, which also changes games.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1255 » by Scottg247 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:18 pm

thelead wrote:
Bensational wrote:that's where i think the analytics will really come into play. i think we'll see some very smart basketball from the team this year, where players aren't necessarily aiming to get a complete stop, but are aiming to direct players to the most inefficient scoring positions. it might look lazy at times, and might look like we're giving them open looks, but i think it will all be by design. You don't need as much lateral quickness if you're just shepherding players, as opposed to trying to stop them individually.


Directing them where though? This is how its going to go down: opposing pg blows by jameer, bbd leaves his man to stop the ball, opposing player passes to bbd's man for an open jumpshot. If afflalo rotates, he gives up an open three. If Vuc rotates, we give up an open dunk. Jameer is not quick, afflalo isn't quick, hedo is the antithesis of quick, bbd is only quick to run to a mcdonalds, and vuc isn't the quickest either. I don't see rotations working very well.

This could all very well change is we see more of Harkless/Moore, but the very fact that we have to hope that unproven players play is very inditing to our situation.



Affalo isn't quick? From what I have seen and heard he is a great defender. He said he didn't defend as hard last year because he wasn't asked to be a lockdown defender last year. He was asked to put more effort into his offensive game. But With him and BBD and either Ayon or Vuc there is no reason we can't be a solid defensive team. Middle of the pack sure. But isn't that the point when your rebuilding? We had long stints or Ryan Anderson last year and he was a defensive liability. He is gone. Hopefully Turk plays less because his D isn't where we want it to me I am sure. But we should be a decent defensive team. Offensive is where I am looking forward to seeing what can happen. I think we could be a really hot and cold type of team. I don't see it being super consistant.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1256 » by KingRobb02 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:26 pm

Scottg247 wrote:
thelead wrote:
Bensational wrote:that's where i think the analytics will really come into play. i think we'll see some very smart basketball from the team this year, where players aren't necessarily aiming to get a complete stop, but are aiming to direct players to the most inefficient scoring positions. it might look lazy at times, and might look like we're giving them open looks, but i think it will all be by design. You don't need as much lateral quickness if you're just shepherding players, as opposed to trying to stop them individually.


Directing them where though? This is how its going to go down: opposing pg blows by jameer, bbd leaves his man to stop the ball, opposing player passes to bbd's man for an open jumpshot. If afflalo rotates, he gives up an open three. If Vuc rotates, we give up an open dunk. Jameer is not quick, afflalo isn't quick, hedo is the antithesis of quick, bbd is only quick to run to a mcdonalds, and vuc isn't the quickest either. I don't see rotations working very well.

This could all very well change is we see more of Harkless/Moore, but the very fact that we have to hope that unproven players play is very inditing to our situation.



Affalo isn't quick? From what I have seen and heard he is a great defender. He said he didn't defend as hard last year because he wasn't asked to be a lockdown defender last year. He was asked to put more effort into his offensive game. But With him and BBD and either Ayon or Vuc there is no reason we can't be a solid defensive team. Middle of the pack sure. But isn't that the point when your rebuilding? We had long stints or Ryan Anderson last year and he was a defensive liability. He is gone. Hopefully Turk plays less because his D isn't where we want it to me I am sure. But we should be a decent defensive team. Offensive is where I am looking forward to seeing what can happen. I think we could be a really hot and cold type of team. I don't see it being super consistant.

Well the numbers seem to say otherwise. Here is the defensive part of his scouting report link:

John Hollinger, ESPN.com wrote:Defensively, however, he regressed. Badly. Afflalo had a rep as a defensive stopper that helped him get a big contract the previous summer, but all his metrics last season were poor. Synergy rated him the single worst wing defender in basketball, and while his other metrics weren't that bad, none of them painted him as a net positive at the defensive end.

Afflalo again had an incredibly low rate of steals, which isn't an indictment in and of itself, but looking at lineup combinations, the Corey Brewer-Danilo Gallinari wing pair was vastly more effective (91.3 allowed points per 48 minutes) than any with Afflalo (97.3 with Gallinari, 96.8 with Rudy Fernandez, 100.9 with Brewer). Of the Nuggets' 10 most commonly used lineups, only one didn't involve Afflalo ? and that one was, by far, their most effective defensively.

Afflalo was overrated as a defender to start -- he's an average athlete and really needs to be competing all out to be a plus at this end. Last season he wasn't. He's still a valuable player because he's so efficient offensively, but I'd like him more if he rediscovered his defensive zeal.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1257 » by BadMofoPimp » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:54 pm

KingRobb02 wrote:
John Hollinger, ESPN.com wrote:Defensively, however, he regressed. Badly. Afflalo had a rep as a defensive stopper that helped him get a big contract the previous summer, but all his metrics last season were poor. Synergy rated him the single worst wing defender in basketball, and while his other metrics weren't that bad, none of them painted him as a net positive at the defensive end.

Afflalo again had an incredibly low rate of steals, which isn't an indictment in and of itself, but looking at lineup combinations, the Corey Brewer-Danilo Gallinari wing pair was vastly more effective (91.3 allowed points per 48 minutes) than any with Afflalo (97.3 with Gallinari, 96.8 with Rudy Fernandez, 100.9 with Brewer). Of the Nuggets' 10 most commonly used lineups, only one didn't involve Afflalo ? and that one was, by far, their most effective defensively.

Afflalo was overrated as a defender to start -- he's an average athlete and really needs to be competing all out to be a plus at this end. Last season he wasn't. He's still a valuable player because he's so efficient offensively, but I'd like him more if he rediscovered his defensive zeal.


Interesting. What Afflalo lacks in Athleticism or Quickness, he makes up in Basketball IQ. I think he will do fine as a team member.

Now, if it was true that Afflalo lost his "Zeal" as a player while on a good playoff caliber team, I wonder how that will translate to being traded to a lottery team. If he loses any more desire, he may end up hurting this team. This will be an interesting season nonetheless.

I would still trade Afflalo and keep JJ any minute if Afflalo has any value in this league. I just don't think he has that much value per his contract dollar amount. I am not sure we could get a 1st rounder for him. I would happily trade him for youth though.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1258 » by NickAnderson » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:37 pm

I agree with Mr. Badmofo that Afflao isn't very good. Plus we don't even have someone who can score 20ppg consistently, were aren't making the playoffs, sorry guys.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1259 » by Def Swami » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:58 pm

John Denton ‏@JohnDenton555
Hearing #Magic SG A.Afflalo is back at practice today. Not sure if he's a full go yet, but my guess is he won't play until Sun at earliest.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" E 

Post#1260 » by ChosenSavior » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:21 pm

VGOSWAMI wrote:
John Denton ‏@JohnDenton555
Hearing #Magic SG A.Afflalo is back at practice today. Not sure if he's a full go yet, but my guess is he won't play until Sun at earliest.


Good to see that he is practicing. Hopefully he'll be good to go against the Spurs on Sunday.

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