Henderson Alvarez (bullpen or minors)

number15 · Post #1 » by **number15** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:03 pm

I honestly believe this guy has #2-3 in rotation talent.... AA believed he had ace potential and he's only 22...in my view he was rushed to the majors and it stunted his growth as a player. Kinda like Travis Snider a few years back.

next year the JAYS are expected to add atleast 2 starting pitchers through FA market or trade, who will likely be on the roster. Plus Morrow and Romero are guaranteed spots like AA stated.

so what to do with Alvarez..... to the bullpen or continue development in the minors?

The guy is only 22. he should have been groomed to make his first appearance in the upcoming September, not the past 2 seasons. Jays waste his talent in the bullpen unless he is the closer or key setup man. He has talent that was rushed..... even Hutchison was rushed. That guy should have been a september call up with limited action this past season.

i also hope Jays learned a lesson and dont rush other young pitchers too soon.. Sanchez, Syndergaard, Nicolini, Osuna especially.

Gibby · Post #2 » by **Gibby** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:32 pm

Well he will never be a Ace, or #2, or #3, if he never develops a strikeout pitch. He can be a good #4 or 5 if he's on

soulchild_07 · Post #3 » by **soulchild_07** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:55 pm

hopefully the jays acquire enough rotation help that Alvarez has to start the year in Buffalo that would be the best case scenario i think.

satyr9 · Post #4 » by **satyr9** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:53 pm

Well assume they're getting 1 starter no matter what. That's X plus Morrow and Romero. I think a second one is quite likely to replace what became CV's spot and Alvarez battles Happ in camp for 5/6. If Happ were to win, then I think Alvarez goes to BUF, whereas if Alvarez won, Happ would be the new CV longman in the 'pen (one of the reasons they started him in the 'pen, to see him do it), but with a quicker trigger for his bump to the rotation. I think that's why, unless Alvarez looks terribad in ST, he'll be the 5th next year and by having both they've got their butts covered in case the market makes acquiring a second SP too much (but I wouldn't bet on it, I just think it's their failsafe or leverage in negotiations).

As for potential upside, without a 5-6k/9 I'm not sure he's anything at all, but a perfect Alvarez with a strikeout pitch probably has bad2/good3 in him at best (and I'm trying to be as generous as possible with that, it's certainly not my prediction), but he's a long way from that now. A serviceable 4/5 that stays around 4.50ERA and gives you 180IP would be enough for me if they can get something else done.

I also wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he's the Volquez part of an equation to grab the first upgrade and Happ is the de facto 5th. He makes more send as a mid to back of the rotation guy with obvious need for work on a team in pure development mode.

number15 · Post #5 » by **number15** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:10 pm

early in the season Alvarez showed his true potential with some impressive games.... i think there was even talks that "if" the Jays went after Cole Hamels in a trade, Alvarez would be a starting point for the Phillys. I think it was around the time where he dominated the Angels.

then later he started to crumble and his value rite now wouldnt get you much at all...... i truely believe this guy will be a decent starter one day. he is too young and talented...... Jays rushed him

wbbfan · Post #6 » by **wbbfan** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:46 am

I think well continue to run him out as a 4/5 starter. If the only choice was pen or minors i would send him back to the minors. I think he can become a top of the rotation starter. I dont think he'll be an ace but more one of the heavily under rated no1 or no2 quality starters that pitches alot of innings and keeps the ball the on the ground. Id like to see him develop a better change as it could be a very good out pitch. He doesnt need to even put a ton of movement on it imop if he just locates it and doesnt over throw it.

dballislife · Post #7 » by **dballislife** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:20 am

1. morrow
2. signing/trade
3. romero
4. signing/trade
5. happ

to start off...then with struggles or injury alvarez, drabek and hutch will come up in that order, hopefully it wont get to drabek/hutch cus i do want them to develop more

Wo1verine · Post #8 » by **Wo1verine** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:31 am

dballislife wrote:1. morrow
2. signing/trade
3. romero
4. signing/trade
5. happ

to start off...then with struggles or injury alvarez, drabek and hutch will come up in that order, hopefully it wont get to drabek/hutch cus i do want them to develop more

Yeah, I think that would be best case scenario.

Michael Bradley · Post #9 » by **Michael Bradley** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:12 pm

If the Jays add two starters, then I don't think there is any way (outside of injury) that Alvarez is in the rotation over Happ. Not only is Happ going to make somewhere between $3-4M next season, but he is a far better starting option than Alvarez at this point. If the Jays add two capable starters and push Happ to the #5 role, that would be ideal. Let Alvarez work on a strike out pitch in Buffalo.

baulderdash77 · Post #10 » by **baulderdash77** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:52 pm

I really can't see a situation where Alvarez isn't in our starting rotation next year. He's the only legit pitching prospect that we've developed in several years and he still has great stuff. He's shown that he's durable and he can go late into games. Can you really think that he's going to get better by staying in Buffalo next year?

I say stop the Travis Snider treatment and go with him. We can't really be invested in JA Happ after the very small amount of work he's done for us. I wouldn't really be surprised if we didn't tender Happ an Arb offer. Certainly not at 3-4 million.

rdtx2005 · Post #11 » by **rdtx2005** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:14 am

i saw keep Alvarez as a starter.. he just needs an out pitch..

but he does have a good FB that can top off at 95/96

Tyrone Slothrop · Post #12 » by **Tyrone Slothrop** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:30 am

baulderdash77 wrote:I really can't see a situation where Alvarez isn't in our starting rotation next year. He's the only legit pitching prospect that we've developed in several years and he still has great stuff.

He has a nice fastball. That does not mean he has great stuff.

I would love for him to spend a year in Buffalo, but if the Jays don't make any/enough significant additions I wouldn't be completely torn up about him being in the starting rotation.