ImageImageImageImageImage

Preseason Game 5: Philadelphia vs Brooklyn - 7:30pm on YES

Moderators: Rich Rane, NyCeEvO

User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 75,911
And1: 52,648
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
       

Re: Preseason Game 5: Philadelphia vs Brooklyn - 7:30pm on Y 

Post#81 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:54 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:MrDB, what's up man? To what do we owe this triumphant return, ND have you foaming at the mouth after all the knee jerk doomers and homers going into wild manic swings the last couple weeks lol?


Sup bud....yeah pretty much, I spoke my piece about some of the crap going on and went too far I guess, gmjigga spazzed on and booted me for good. No hard feelings though, he was right.

And I agree with your thoughts above 100% re: Avery and Brook

What? You got kicked off ND for good?

I think you kept 80% of that board from going insane from January through July by assuring them that D-Will was coming back lol.

They should've temp banned you. Glad to have you here though.


Thanks....Lmao...they didn't wanna believe me about Deron...but I was so happy for everyone that day.

Eh...it's ok, those guys are good folks. Thanks! I haven't been here in ages but the discussion has been good
Please consider donating blood: https://www.nybc.org/

2025-2026 Indiana Pacers

C: J. Valanciunas/
PF: K. Kuzma/J. Robinson-Earl
SF: C. Williams/J. Howard
SG: G. Allen/
PG: B. Simmons/C. Payne
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 75,911
And1: 52,648
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
       

Re: Preseason Game 5: Philadelphia vs Brooklyn - 7:30pm on Y 

Post#82 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:08 pm

PetroNet wrote:I agree that i think avery is the biggest issue. this team has no leadership, no intensity, no direction, no offensive scheme, its a rudderless ship.


The offense looks like a bloody mess.

I want the Nets to get off to a good start, but if a baf start gives Avery enough rope to hang himself, awesome.
Please consider donating blood: https://www.nybc.org/

2025-2026 Indiana Pacers

C: J. Valanciunas/
PF: K. Kuzma/J. Robinson-Earl
SF: C. Williams/J. Howard
SG: G. Allen/
PG: B. Simmons/C. Payne
DarkXaero
RealGM
Posts: 14,220
And1: 5,763
Joined: Mar 25, 2011
   

Re: Preseason Game 5: Philadelphia vs Brooklyn - 7:30pm on Y 

Post#83 » by DarkXaero » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:12 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
624 wrote:Brook isn't a great passer out of double teams, but he shouldn't see as many doubles this season with actual players around him.


Plus, he's never had an issue with turnovers despite the amount we've asked him to have the ball.

He only had 2.15 topg in his 3rd season at a pretty damn high usage rate and receiving double/triple teams every night with trash around him.


It will be easy for the opponent to double him because the offense requires everyone to stand like statues once the ball leaves their hands.

It is no coincidence that Mirza looks lost, either.

Get rid of Johnson, please.
Agreed. Look at the player movement when Brook is getting doubled and it's not hard to see why it would be difficult for Brook to pass out of double teams. Not saying that Brook isn't at fault either for some of his decisions/passes but the coaching has to get some of the blame too.
maljanNBAfan
Sophomore
Posts: 105
And1: 2
Joined: Oct 16, 2012
Contact:

Re: Preseason Game 5: Philadelphia vs Brooklyn - 7:30pm on Y 

Post#84 » by maljanNBAfan » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:27 pm

DarkXaero wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
624 wrote:Brook isn't a great passer out of double teams, but he shouldn't see as many doubles this season with actual players around him.


Plus, he's never had an issue with turnovers despite the amount we've asked him to have the ball.

He only had 2.15 topg in his 3rd season at a pretty damn high usage rate and receiving double/triple teams every night with trash around him.


It will be easy for the opponent to double him because the offense requires everyone to stand like statues once the ball leaves their hands.

It is no coincidence that Mirza looks lost, either.

Get rid of Johnson, please.
Agreed. Look at the player movement when Brook is getting doubled and it's not hard to see why it would be difficult for Brook to pass out of double teams. Not saying that Brook isn't at fault either for some of his decisions/passes but the coaching has to get some of the blame too.


I agree. The coaching needs a little tweaking and to be stepped up quite a bit.
Paradise
Nets Forum: Asst. To The RM
Posts: 39,016
And1: 11,965
Joined: Aug 16, 2012
Location: NYC
     

Re: Preseason Game 5: Philadelphia vs Brooklyn - 7:30pm on Y 

Post#85 » by Paradise » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:00 pm

I'm trying to find the quote and article but apparently, Bogans is going to be the first guard off the bench. Not, Marshon in Avery's rotation. Marshon may not play until the 3rd/4th quarters.


WTF!
User avatar
NyCeEvO
Forum Mod - Nets
Forum Mod - Nets
Posts: 22,057
And1: 6,082
Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Re: Preseason Game 5: Philadelphia vs Brooklyn - 7:30pm on Y 

Post#86 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:22 pm

Yup, I read about that too smh...
therealbig3
RealGM
Posts: 29,474
And1: 16,062
Joined: Jul 31, 2010

Re: Preseason Game 5: Philadelphia vs Brooklyn - 7:30pm on Y 

Post#87 » by therealbig3 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:05 am

Because Lopez can't pass out of double teams, I want him to be the clear 3rd option on offense behind Deron and JJ, not the 1st or 2nd option he's been used as during the preseason so far. He's just not good enough to be that guy. He should be used as a guy we use to get us efficient points against single coverage in the post. That's it. None of this nonsense of running the offense through him when Deron and/or JJ are on the court, makes no sense to go to Lopez when two clearly superior offensive players are out there. In fact, Brook should primarily be used as a PnR/PnP finisher, with a few touches in the post.

This all comes back to the coaching...Avery is a total dumbass, I would kill to have one of the Van Gundys coach this team. Defensive-minded coaching is nice, but we don't really have the personnel to be a strong defensive team, and we're going to win games primarily because of our offense. Which means we should maximize our offensive efficacy...which Avery apparently can't do, because his idea of offense is to iso a player and have everyone else stand around...I'm sure JJ loves that, but it's a crap offensive system.
User avatar
624
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,603
And1: 277
Joined: Sep 25, 2010

Re: Preseason Game 5: Philadelphia vs Brooklyn - 7:30pm on Y 

Post#88 » by 624 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:25 am

Paradise wrote:I'm trying to find the quote and article but apparently, Bogans is going to be the first guard off the bench. Not, Marshon in Avery's rotation. Marshon may not play until the 3rd/4th quarters.


WTF!


I was so excited about finally watching a team without a scrub in the main rotation for Avery to fall in love with.....and then he finds a scrub hidden at the bottom of the roster to fall for.
deepblueday
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,361
And1: 48
Joined: Feb 17, 2011

Re: Preseason Game 5: Philadelphia vs Brooklyn - 7:30pm on Y 

Post#89 » by deepblueday » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:39 am

therealbig3 wrote:Because Lopez can't pass out of double teams, I want him to be the clear 3rd option on offense behind Deron and JJ, not the 1st or 2nd option he's been used as during the preseason so far. He's just not good enough to be that guy. He should be used as a guy we use to get us efficient points against single coverage in the post. That's it. None of this nonsense of running the offense through him when Deron and/or JJ are on the court, makes no sense to go to Lopez when two clearly superior offensive players are out there. In fact, Brook should primarily be used as a PnR/PnP finisher, with a few touches in the post.


agreed. also, when you play brook with the ball, you can't get him shots in finishing oppurtunities. theres no reason brook shouldn't be catching lobs and dunks off penetration, and getting wide open 15 foot set shots. he's had very few catch and finish looks thus far.

ill say this re the whole "move wallace to the 4" debate... we're not going to be a good defensive team. we sag off shooters in the half court for absolutely no reason. we don't make any effort whatsoever to match up with shooters in transition. our bigs are slow in every sense of the word, they move like theyre stuck in quick sand and they have **** reaction times. our guards are too big and slow to get over screens consistently and our bigs aren't capable of showing on them. i mean, brook lopez's man can have a wide open 15 footer any time he wants it... you don't even need to put him in a pick and roll, brook will just sag and give it to him. rim protection is pretty much nonexistent. wallace at the 4 solves very few of these problems, creates a few new ones, and does not allow us to play our most effective offensive game, which should be the focus at this point. crash is a 3 who can switch onto 4s. that's what makes him an effective defensive piece. let him play his game at his position.

teletovic with the starters, in my opinion, is the most impactful shift we can make at this point. in the long run, i don't see him as meaningfully worse than hump as a defender, who has just been abysmal. as a rebounder, sure, but I want avery to show me it isn't viable. even given that he hasn't played particularly well, i see a player in teletovic. he can shoot the lights out from deep, he can pump fake and pull up, he can pass, and he gets out in transition. were a 6-0 run waiting to happen with him on the court. i dunno, i really just think he's been terribly misused thus far, given all his burn alongside backups, with aveyr in his ear every second, "i don't ever want to see you passing up any "open" shots" on these **** middling, contested looks. see what happens when you play teletovic on the strong side with deron and brook... guess how much more difficult it is to double any of our playmakers. how often does the opposing 4 simply lose him in transition? i dunno, i guess i feel like we should bet on mirza early, because I think him turning into an adequate defender and rebounder, along with what he can provide offensively, maxes out the current team's potential.
Paradise
Nets Forum: Asst. To The RM
Posts: 39,016
And1: 11,965
Joined: Aug 16, 2012
Location: NYC
     

Re: Preseason Game 5: Philadelphia vs Brooklyn - 7:30pm on Y 

Post#90 » by Paradise » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:04 am

therealbig3 wrote:Because Lopez can't pass out of double teams, I want him to be the clear 3rd option on offense behind Deron and JJ, not the 1st or 2nd option he's been used as during the preseason so far. He's just not good enough to be that guy. He should be used as a guy we use to get us efficient points against single coverage in the post. That's it. None of this nonsense of running the offense through him when Deron and/or JJ are on the court, makes no sense to go to Lopez when two clearly superior offensive players are out there. In fact, Brook should primarily be used as a PnR/PnP finisher, with a few touches in the post.

This all comes back to the coaching...Avery is a total dumbass, I would kill to have one of the Van Gundys coach this team. Defensive-minded coaching is nice, but we don't really have the personnel to be a strong defensive team, and we're going to win games primarily because of our offense. Which means we should maximize our offensive efficacy...which Avery apparently can't do, because his idea of offense is to iso a player and have everyone else stand around...I'm sure JJ loves that, but it's a crap offensive system.


You know what's funny? The fact, in every game thus far when Lopez gets the ball and they clear out the offense looks worse. When Joe and Deron handle the ball and Lopez doesn't get post ups every single time, the offense was way more efficient and Lopez/Humphries got more rebounding opportunities.

Deron/Joe need to dominate touches like they are expected to do since both showed they could pass to open big men which will get Wallace involved instead of standing on the 3 point line every damn time, Humphries will be involved more and Lopez can get easier shots and he could get offensive rebounds which he is showing vast improvement on.

Hell, he could even run a lineup of Deron, Marshon, Johnson to maximize offense. But wait...Marshon is now behind BOGANS in the rotation.

Now, he's going on a media rampage about "hit first or get hit" meanwhile, he doesn't understand his offense is the problem.

He's too clueless on defense at times himself for a "defensive" coach, there was a play on Friday where Joe forced his man baseline and Lopez didn't slide over to cut off the rim and Richardson got an easy layup, Joe looks at Lopez and Avery calls at timeout to yell at Joe for the play when clearly it was Lopez even the announcers called him out on it.

That right there is stuff you cannot blame on a team. I honestly don't even see Avery lasting beyond next season.
User avatar
NyCeEvO
Forum Mod - Nets
Forum Mod - Nets
Posts: 22,057
And1: 6,082
Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Re: Preseason Game 5: Philadelphia vs Brooklyn - 7:30pm on Y 

Post#91 » by NyCeEvO » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:13 am

Well, it's a good thing Avery's contract is up at the end of the season.

He's got one season to prove himself and right now he's looking like he'll be fired by mid-season lol.
Paradise
Nets Forum: Asst. To The RM
Posts: 39,016
And1: 11,965
Joined: Aug 16, 2012
Location: NYC
     

Re: Preseason Game 5: Philadelphia vs Brooklyn - 7:30pm on Y 

Post#92 » by Paradise » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:52 am

I really don't get it and I get it's preseason but after reading what they were working on, seeing clips and watching these preseason games over and over...I don't get it. This team should be playing exactly like last year's Clippers offensively, Paul dominating the ball, Billups coming off screens getting wide open looks, Butler cutting to the rim and getting open looks, Blake getting pick and rolls and easy looks from Chris Paul.

All of that is capable with Deron, Joe, Gerald, Brook, Kris but instead all four get ISOs and they clear out lol then the "ball movement" has zero spacing. Gerald and Kris run into each other more times than I can count in the Wizards, Celtics and Sixers game.

Now, to top it off...Bogans is the SG off the bench not Brooks and instead of using Childress who proved his worth to be a defensive energy Forward...He would rather overuse Joe instead of using Brooks in the same damn role.

Once Nov 1st hits, I will give him a clean open minded slate but I swear to god, If the first few weeks of the regular season they are not running anything different and I don't see this "fast pace" offense he kept claiming to be excited for then I will be calling for his head. This team won't win a damn thing without offense efficency and consistency, It's a lost cause to get them to be defensive stoppers. Atleast be good at offense.
djsunyc
RealGM
Posts: 99,556
And1: 73,329
Joined: Dec 28, 2003

Re: Preseason Game 5: Philadelphia vs Brooklyn - 7:30pm on Y 

Post#93 » by djsunyc » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:55 pm

deron had issues with jerry sloan of all people. a bad start is not going to bode well for avery. but he's not the right guy for the job anyway. you're better off with 2 years of svg before he's run out of town as well.
User avatar
vincecarter4pres
RealGM
Posts: 51,064
And1: 3,840
Joined: May 30, 2005
Location: New Jeruz
Contact:
     

Re: Preseason Game 5: Philadelphia vs Brooklyn - 7:30pm on Y 

Post#94 » by vincecarter4pres » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:01 pm

djsunyc wrote:deron had issues with jerry sloan of all people.

I don't get the "of all people" comment, like Sloan is some happy go lucky jokester player's coach.

He's a notorious control freak and douche bag who always thought he was bigger then his players with an a-holish I'm bigger then the game or the team smugness.

Great coach, but I don't get the context here.
Image
Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
therealbig3
RealGM
Posts: 29,474
And1: 16,062
Joined: Jul 31, 2010

Re: Preseason Game 5: Philadelphia vs Brooklyn - 7:30pm on Y 

Post#95 » by therealbig3 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:38 pm

Honestly, I think Sloan was an overrated coach too...he was a very good coach, but how many coaches stick around after that many unsuccessful seasons? How many coaches still have a job after his team gets upset in the playoffs that many times? He had K. Malone and J. Stockton for their entire primes together, and they never won anything. Wasn't even just 97 and 98 when they lost to the Bulls...they had 13 other seasons to win, and they never did, and lost to some pretty average teams along the way.

Sloan is one of those guys who is revered more because he was around for a really long time, not because he was all that great of a coach. It's no real surprise he never won a COY.
User avatar
NyCeEvO
Forum Mod - Nets
Forum Mod - Nets
Posts: 22,057
And1: 6,082
Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Re: Preseason Game 5: Philadelphia vs Brooklyn - 7:30pm on Y 

Post#96 » by NyCeEvO » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:45 pm

If we got SVG, I'd be thrilled!

Return to Brooklyn Nets