Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVII "Training Camp" Ed.)

[NickAnderson]

JRich tore it up tonight. 23pts 6ast 7rbd 2st 1blk 2to +18 which was +11 than any other player on the team. He is a horrible player.

You can thank Stan for turning him into a spot up shooter like he did to everyone else you came here.

[Def Swami]

JRich tore it up tonight. 23pts 6ast 7rbd 2st 1blk 2to +18 which was +11 than any other player on the team. He is a horrible player.

You can thank Stan for turning him into a spot up shooter like he did to everyone else you came here.

He had similar games here. His problem is he's not consistent. You can never depend on him to do it night in and night out.

[ADRajX]

JRich tore it up tonight. 23pts 6ast 7rbd 2st 1blk 2to +18 which was +11 than any other player on the team. He is a horrible player.

You can thank Stan for turning him into a spot up shooter like he did to everyone else you came here.

He had similar games here. His problem is he's not consistent. You can never depend on him to do it night in and night out.

+1 exactly

Preseason Game 1 (@Orlando)
24min 1/5fg 0/3 three 3pts 1asts 2to -9 +/-

Preseason Game 2 (vs Boston)
17min 3/8fg 1/3 three 8pts 2asts 2rbs 1st 1to 0 +/-

Preseason Game 3 (vs Brooklyn)
DNP

Preseason Game 4 (vs Cleveland)
DNP

Preseason Game 5 (@Brooklyn)
32min 4/7fg 2/5 three 13pts 2asts 6rbs 3stls 4to +5 +/-

Preseason Game 6 (@Boston)
24min 3/9fg 2/6 three 8pts 3asts 3rbs 1blk 1to +5 +/-

Preseason Game 7 (vs New York)
34min 8/17fg 6/12 three 23pts 6asts 7rbs 2stls 1blk 2to +18 +/-

He's not going to be putting up scoring numbers like that consistently. He's aging (athletically) and he doesn't have very good off-the-dribble moves/handles to go to. He relies on off-the-ball screens too much, and his consistency with scoring will depend on his nightly match-ups, volume of shots, accuracy/shot selection, and back-to-back(-to-back) situations (he tends to not play well on the tail end of those). And I doubt his defense will improve at this stage in his career. Yeah Stan did turn him into a spot-up shooter, but J-Rich just doesn't have a lot of offensive versatility outside of transition/fast break opportunities, spot-up shooting, and off-screen sets... he can't create for himself.

[FFBlitzace]

The first time Duhon puts up double digits (may take awhile), BMP will surely spin it into some kind of anti-Hennigan way.

[Bensational]

You can thank Stan for turning him into a spot up shooter like he did to everyone else you came here.

He had similar games here. His problem is he's not consistent. You can never depend on him to do it night in and night out.

+1 exactly

Preseason Game 1 (@Orlando)
24min 1/5fg 0/3 three 3pts 1asts 2to -9 +/-

Preseason Game 2 (vs Boston)
17min 3/8fg 1/3 three 8pts 2asts 2rbs 1st 1to 0 +/-

Preseason Game 3 (vs Brooklyn)
DNP

Preseason Game 4 (vs Cleveland)
DNP

Preseason Game 5 (@Brooklyn)
32min 4/7fg 2/5 three 13pts 2asts 6rbs 3stls 4to +5 +/-

Preseason Game 6 (@Boston)
24min 3/9fg 2/6 three 8pts 3asts 3rbs 1blk 1to +5 +/-

Preseason Game 7 (vs New York)
34min 8/17fg 6/12 three 23pts 6asts 7rbs 2stls 1blk 2to +18 +/-

He's not going to be putting up scoring numbers like that consistently. He's aging (athletically) and he doesn't have very good off-the-dribble moves/handles to go to. He relies on off-the-ball screens too much, and his consistency with scoring will depend on his nightly match-ups, volume of shots, accuracy/shot selection, and back-to-back(-to-back) situations (he tends to not play well on the tail end of those). And I doubt his defense will improve at this stage in his career. Yeah Stan did turn him into a spot-up shooter, but J-Rich just doesn't have a lot of offensive versatility outside of transition/fast break opportunities, spot-up shooting, and off-screen sets... he can't create for himself.

J-Rich may not have much versatility, but the fact that he's a career 17.5ppg scorer flies in the face of the idea he's not consistent, and shows that other teams have been able to get much better performances out of him than we/Stan did.

in fact, he was averaging near 20ppg on 47% with Phoenix just before he was traded to us. once he played in Stan's system, he dropped to 13.9ppg on 43% that same season, and 11 on 40% the following season.

our team never pushed the break enough, which was one of JRich's strengths. it also never provided the opportunity for high volume shooters/scorers to take over a game, because FGAs were distributed evenly across the board.

Stan did what he could with the roster, and since he never had a bonafide 2nd scorer next to Dwight he never pushed anyone into that role. but guys like JRich and Vince were capable of doing much more on that front, we just didn't use them to their capacity. Stan may not have encouraged his players to become the lazy 3pt bombers that they became, but there's no denying that he created and enforced the system that lead a lot of players down that path.

[arsenal6106]

Hey DJ,

Is this the last Spec thread for the year? Or are we continuing it throughout the season?

[arsenal6106]

Megan Clementi no longer with Fox Sports Florida? Didn't see her part of the telecast for the Spurs game.

Plus, I keep hearing her voice with these Real GM ads for college football highlights.

[MagicStarwipe]

Please, J-Rich was getting blocked by the rim on multiple occasions last season. We didn't have the good version of J-Rich by any means.

[ADRajX]

+1 exactly

Preseason Game 1 (@Orlando)
24min 1/5fg 0/3 three 3pts 1asts 2to -9 +/-

Preseason Game 2 (vs Boston)
17min 3/8fg 1/3 three 8pts 2asts 2rbs 1st 1to 0 +/-

Preseason Game 3 (vs Brooklyn)
DNP

Preseason Game 4 (vs Cleveland)
DNP

Preseason Game 5 (@Brooklyn)
32min 4/7fg 2/5 three 13pts 2asts 6rbs 3stls 4to +5 +/-

Preseason Game 6 (@Boston)
24min 3/9fg 2/6 three 8pts 3asts 3rbs 1blk 1to +5 +/-

Preseason Game 7 (vs New York)
34min 8/17fg 6/12 three 23pts 6asts 7rbs 2stls 1blk 2to +18 +/-

He's not going to be putting up scoring numbers like that consistently. He's aging (athletically) and he doesn't have very good off-the-dribble moves/handles to go to. He relies on off-the-ball screens too much, and his consistency with scoring will depend on his nightly match-ups, volume of shots, accuracy/shot selection, and back-to-back(-to-back) situations (he tends to not play well on the tail end of those). And I doubt his defense will improve at this stage in his career. Yeah Stan did turn him into a spot-up shooter, but J-Rich just doesn't have a lot of offensive versatility outside of transition/fast break opportunities, spot-up shooting, and off-screen sets... he can't create for himself.

J-Rich may not have much versatility, but the fact that he's a career 17.5ppg scorer flies in the face of the idea he's not consistent, and shows that other teams have been able to get much better performances out of him than we/Stan did.

in fact, he was averaging near 20ppg on 47% with Phoenix just before he was traded to us. once he played in Stan's system, he dropped to 13.9ppg on 43% that same season, and 11 on 40% the following season.

our team never pushed the break enough, which was one of JRich's strengths. it also never provided the opportunity for high volume shooters/scorers to take over a game, because FGAs were distributed evenly across the board.

Stan did what he could with the roster, and since he never had a bonafide 2nd scorer next to Dwight he never pushed anyone into that role. but guys like JRich and Vince were capable of doing much more on that front, we just didn't use them to their capacity. Stan may not have encouraged his players to become the lazy 3pt bombers that they became, but there's no denying that he created and enforced the system that lead a lot of players down that path.

J-Rich may not have much versatility, but the fact that he's a career 17.5ppg scorer flies in the face of the idea he's not consistent, and shows that other teams have been able to get much better performances out of him than we/Stan did.


in fact, he was averaging near 20ppg on 47% with Phoenix just before he was traded to us. once he played in Stan's system, he dropped to 13.9ppg on 43% that same season, and 11 on 40% the following season.

I don't think that flies in the face of anything. Yeah he averaged ~18ppg on bad teams, and the last time he averaged consistent numbers was when he played for Steve Nash at the tail end of his 20s/prime. He can't be consistent anymore NOW because he's aging/declining and he doesn't have any other pertinent skills outside of what I stated (transition offense, off-the-ball cuts, and spot-up shooting). Anyone can up their numbers and look great when you have Steve Nash setting you up for easy buckets and high percentage looks.

our team never pushed the break enough, which was one of JRich's strengths. it also never provided the opportunity for high volume shooters/scorers to take over a game, because FGAs were distributed evenly across the board.

Stan did what he could with the roster, and since he never had a bonafide 2nd scorer next to Dwight he never pushed anyone into that role. but guys like JRich and Vince were capable of doing much more on that front, we just didn't use them to their capacity. Stan may not have encouraged his players to become the lazy 3pt bombers that they became, but there's no denying that he created and enforced the system that lead a lot of players down that path.

Yeah we didn't push the break enough, and that's mostly on Stan and his 1-in-4-out offense. Both J-Rich and Vince were aging. J-Rich showed that he couldn't drive and handle the ball to create offense for himself. Vince Carter just met father time. But you kind of made my point when you said that pushing the break was one of J-Rich's strengths. Outside of pushing the break, he's not very good at this current stage of his career. Maybe a 21 year old J-Rich had the athletic ability to make offense/something out of nothing, but now he can't rely on it anymore.

Stan's system promoted 3-point shooting, and since teams were no longer doubling or tripling Dwight (they learned from Boston), our players became inefficient jump shooters, but our players also didn't possess the ability to drive off-the-dribble and create for themselves. J-Rich had games where he put up 20+ppg and some good stats in other columns, but they were inconsistent. I guarantee you they will be inconsistent in Philly, especially when teams slow Philly's offense down.

[ADRajX]

Hey DJ,

Is this the last Spec thread for the year? Or are we continuing it throughout the season?

Just keep it going. People like to post in one area and talk. It's always 50/50 with those. Some people want to post in here and others want to create new threads. Just keep the Speculation thread going for those that like to post/discuss and read items in one place. Trades, rumors, and cuts can still occur over the season.

[Bensational]

DJ, i'm not defending JRich as a versatile scorer, just saying that with the skills he's still got, he was putting up 20ppg on better %'s in the very same season that he joined us and suddenly became inefficient and 'inconsistent'. JRich's strengths were/are to run the break, knock down open looks and to score off cuts to the basket. we didn't push the break, we never encouraged players to cut, and we had/have a PG with limited court vision and a preference to find his own shot first. JRich was misused. put him in the right offense and he'll become consistent again, BUT, as you said - he's at an age now, and he's physically declining to the point that he doesn't warrant that kind of role over a guy like Nick Young.

[ADRajX]

DJ, i'm not defending JRich as a versatile scorer, just saying that with the skills he's still got, he was putting up 20ppg on better %'s in the very same season that he joined us and suddenly became inefficient and 'inconsistent'. JRich's strengths were/are to run the break, knock down open looks and to score off cuts to the basket. we didn't push the break, we never encouraged players to cut, and we had/have a PG with limited court vision and a preference to find his own shot first. JRich was misused. put him in the right offense and he'll become consistent again, BUT, as you said - he's at an age now, and he's physically declining to the point that he doesn't warrant that kind of role over a guy like Nick Young.

I understand what you're getting at now.

Yeah the one thing that bugged me about J-Rich's (and Vince Carter's) run with us, even though both were aging, was that Stan never utilized them in the post. It's true, the minute they came here their numbers went down. Our offense was too one-dimensional with the inside-out game. It made our players lazy in a way, and I absolutely blame Stan for that (and I like Stan, I thought his detail to defense was top-notch). Both players had a decent post game against most guards, and Stan never looked to try to get switches/mismatches for them. And Stan never allowed our players to just "play freely" and push the tempo with our guards (remember our 9-game winning streak after the trade? We were just playing on instincts and pushing the tempo). I agree, J-Rich in the right offense (uptempo and transition-oriented) is still very effective at scoring. It's just a shame that we wasted opportunities with both J-Rich, and Vince Carter (and even Arenas) for different avenues of offense/scoring outside of just dumping the ball to Dwight in the low-block and having everyone stand around.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I wish all the best to jrich. I think it was a combination of the system and his age that contributed to his decline in Orlando. We'll probably see the same numbers from him in Philly with the occasional big game.

[RYgoBOOM]

Kill Stan!

[Nyce_1]

As a GM, it was Otis' job to know the strengths & weaknesses of JRich (or any player we bring in) and how those skills would fit with the team & system we had. #FAIL

[BadMofoPimp]

The first time Duhon puts up double digits (may take awhile), BMP will surely spin it into some kind of anti-Hennigan way.

Duhon Gonna Prove Ya'll Wrong!!!

[BadMofoPimp]

In defense of JRich and Vince is that Stan never gave them the ball and told them to run with it. They were used to getting 12-20 shots per game and Stan put them in a half court offense and gave them a role. These were guys who were used to being the man while taking over on offense at times. I give both of them credit for at least not complaining and trying to change their game as a team member. But, you can see how they can thrive on teams that may depend on them to take over. In defense of SVG is that his system did push the Magic to a top 3 record over 5 years.

[OrlChamps2030]

In defense of JRich and Vince is that Stan never gave them the ball and told them to run with it. They were used to getting 12-20 shots per game and Stan put them in a half court offense and gave them a role. These were guys who were used to being the man while taking over on offense at times. I give both of them credit for at least not complaining and trying to change their game as a team member. But, you can see how they can thrive on teams that may depend on them to take over. In defense of SVG is that his system did push the Magic to a top 3 record over 5 years.

I thought that Vince (although towards the end of his career) was a solid playmaker for us. Outside of a prime Hedo, he was really the only guy the Magic had in the SVG/D12 era that could put the ball on the floor in the half court.

Jason Richardson was just clearly the wrong acquisition for what the Magic needed at the time. It was painfully obvious the Magic needed a playmaker the past 2 years. J-Rich is the opposite of a playmaker. Terrible handles. Rarely looked to pass. Barely made it to the line. Barely made his FT's. However he is a good off-the-ball shooter..but he really needs a distributing PG to show any signs of life.

[BadMofoPimp]

JRich looked good with a pass first ball handler like Nash. Meer is a shoot first PG with JRich playing between Meer and Hedo with another wing in Ryno. Not to mention gimme the damn ball Dwight. So, this was not up to JRich's strengths but he tried and I liked him for that. JRich just couldn't create his own show. As for Vince, he could create his own shot and post up. But, he was getting old and had tired knees to play his game night in and night out. I liked them both, but would have liked them both when they were younger and more hungry.

[trebone]

I just couldnt stand JRich, he was terrible on D and made Doodies handle look like Pistol Pete, at this point in his career all he is just an overpaid spot up shooter. I will agree he as well as Gil and Vince were not used to their strengths and looking back on it I would have loved to see what the team could have done under a free flowing offensive coach like JV but oh well.