OFFICIAL - Amare Must Go Thread (all hate here) #TRADESTAT

[GONYK]

The way Kevin Martin gets bandied about, I really wonder when is the last time people have seen him play

[knicksosmoove]

The way Kevin Martin gets bandied about, I really wonder when is the last time people have seen him play

he had a bad season last year but he was his usual self the year before ... he looked real nice in one of the preseason games

I'm not saying martin's a star, but he'd be a real nice fit at the 2 on a d'antoni team.

[GONYK]

Are we rooting for the Knicks or are we rooting for Amare here? Because you saying Amare can't work as a second option means you think we should have built a team around him?' No team with Amare as its 1st option is going anywhere. No team. Nash was option 1 and 2 in Phoenix.

You mentioned CP3 and Derron. Those guys would have been option 1 also. I don't get your point.

I think we EASILY could have built a team better than the one we have now with Amar'e as more or less the best player or at least the guy who scored the most points ... heck, that 2010 team had as good a record as the post-melo trade knicks have had and that team had plenty of room for improvement.

I think a team like
Lowry
Martin
Landry
Gallo
Amar'e

would have been a very, very good team. there are plenty of other similar teams you could build.

I know you are just posing an example, but that team doesn't make the playoffs in either conference.

It would get absolutely MAULED on defense and on the boards.

I'm not sure how that roster is any better than the one we have now.

[21shumpshumpst]

Are we rooting for the Knicks or are we rooting for Amare here? Because you saying Amare can't work as a second option means you think we should have built a team around him?' No team with Amare as its 1st option is going anywhere. No team. Nash was option 1 and 2 in Phoenix.

You mentioned CP3 and Derron. Those guys would have been option 1 also. I don't get your point.

I think we EASILY could have built a team better than the one we have now with Amar'e as more or less the best player or at least the guy who scored the most points ... heck, that 2010 team had as good a record as the post-melo trade knicks have had and that team had plenty of room for improvement.

I think a team like
Lowry
Martin
Landry
Gallo
Amar'e

would have been a very, very good team. there are plenty of other similar teams you could build.

Kevin Martin sucks. Watch him play. Talk to Rockets fans. Go to a bunch of Rockets fans boards and start the thread "What do you think of Kevin Martin?" and watch them bash him to their little heart's desires.

Do you guys that talk about him as a great player ever watch him play? Seriously.

Landry? I hope you are talking about Carl Landry. Not Fields. Because that team you put there sucks. Would get outrebounded and would have 0 defense.

That 2010 team was fully healthy and still had to go on a 8-0 streak just to get back to .500. That team was not very good.

We have yet to have a fully healthy season with melo. How can you even compare the two?

[GONYK]

The way Kevin Martin gets bandied about, I really wonder when is the last time people have seen him play

he had a bad season last year but he was his usual self the year before ... he looked real nice in one of the preseason games

I'm not saying martin's a star, but he'd be a real nice fit at the 2 on a d'antoni team.

His usual self is still terrible. He only shot 43% 2 seasons ago.

He plays no defense, has no impact on games, and needs all his offense created for him at this stage in his career, since he has a real weak handle. He's a TS% wet dream, but that doesn't really mean much when the games are actually played.

He's hated in Houston.

[knicksosmoove]

I think we EASILY could have built a team better than the one we have now with Amar'e as more or less the best player or at least the guy who scored the most points ... heck, that 2010 team had as good a record as the post-melo trade knicks have had and that team had plenty of room for improvement.

I think a team like
Lowry
Martin
Landry
Gallo
Amar'e

would have been a very, very good team. there are plenty of other similar teams you could build.

I know you are just posing an example, but that team doesn't make the playoffs in either conference.

It would get absolutely MAULED on defense and on the boards.

I'm not sure how that roster is any better than the one we have now.

how does it not make the playoffs? I think it's clearly a better team than the felton/landry/chandler/gallo/amar'e team and that team was a 6th seed.

it'd be a great d'antoni team. the parts would fit beautifully. they wouldn't be defensive stalwarts but I think they'd be good enough ...

[21shumpshumpst]

The way Kevin Martin gets bandied about, I really wonder when is the last time people have seen him play

he had a bad season last year but he was his usual self the year before ... he looked real nice in one of the preseason games

I'm not saying martin's a star, but he'd be a real nice fit at the 2 on a d'antoni team.

His usual self is still terrible. He only shot 43% 2 seasons ago.

He plays no defense, has no impact on games, and needs all his offense created for him at this stage in his career, since he has a real weak handle. He's a TS% wet dream, but that doesn't really mean much when the games are actually played.

He's hated in Houston.

Haha so freaking true. I don't know what he and TKF are smoking talking about Kevin Martin being a good player. They absolutely hate him in Houston.

[GONYK]

I think we EASILY could have built a team better than the one we have now with Amar'e as more or less the best player or at least the guy who scored the most points ... heck, that 2010 team had as good a record as the post-melo trade knicks have had and that team had plenty of room for improvement.

I think a team like
Lowry
Martin
Landry
Gallo
Amar'e

would have been a very, very good team. there are plenty of other similar teams you could build.

I know you are just posing an example, but that team doesn't make the playoffs in either conference.

It would get absolutely MAULED on defense and on the boards.

I'm not sure how that roster is any better than the one we have now.

how does it not make the playoffs? I think it's clearly a better team than the felton/landry/chandler/gallo/amar'e team and that team was a 6th seed.

it'd be a great d'antoni team. the parts would fit beautifully. they wouldn't be defensive stalwarts but I think they'd be good enough ...

I'm not sure that's accurate.

That NYK team was on pace to miss the playoffs. We were in a complete tailspin when we traded for Melo.

[knicksosmoove]

The way Kevin Martin gets bandied about, I really wonder when is the last time people have seen him play

he had a bad season last year but he was his usual self the year before ... he looked real nice in one of the preseason games

I'm not saying martin's a star, but he'd be a real nice fit at the 2 on a d'antoni team.

His usual self is still terrible. He only shot 43% 2 seasons ago.

He plays no defense, has no impact on games, and needs all his offense created for him at this stage in his career, since he has a real weak handle. He's a TS% wet dream, but that doesn't really mean much when the games are actually played.

He's hated in Houston.

I don't know how they feel about Kevin Martin in Houston. If they hate him, I think it'd be because he represents the post-Yao Rocket's inability to clinch a playoff berth. He's not nearly a bad enough player to warrant any hate.

I think he'd be a good piece is all. we wouldn't be asking him to drag us to the playoffs. Amar'e would be the first option. then between Martin, Lowry, and Gallo you'd have three guys more than capable of helping carry the load. a guy who is a low maintenance shooter like martin would fit in really well.

I mean, come one. look at that team and compare it to our current team. now that amar'e's injured, we're going to be depending on raymond felton and j.r. smith behind melo for the scoring. I know I'd wayyyyyy rather depend on Gallo, Lowry, and Martin than those two.

and first-option amar'e scored as many point as carmelo on better efficiency. I know he can't do all the things melo can do, but on a mike d'antoni type team, amar'e is a machine.

[blumatic]

Im gonna pray for the guy. Not to offend anyone. I just believe in it.

Dear Lord,

I know there may be better things to pray for, but you are almighty and all powerful, so no prayer is too trivial for you. God, bless Amar'e Stoudemire. I dont know him personally, but he seems like a genuine guy and I wish the best for him. Like most Knick fans he has a desire to improve and get better and give New York a great season. They are many Knicks fans who are unemployed and going through other difficulties in their personal lives and watch Knick games for temporary refuge. Amar'e has started a good thing here in New York and we ask that you heal his body and keep it healthy for another 7-8 years at least to continue and improve on the good times that seems to be budding at the Garden. Please give him health, please give our beloved Knicks health. We enjoy this team and we just want to have a good year and we know Amar'e has to be a part of that. May God Bless STAT and may God bless the New York Knicksbockers.

Amen

[knicksosmoove]

I'm not sure that's accurate.

That NYK team was on pace to miss the playoffs. We were in a complete tailspin when we traded for Melo.

come on, GONYK. you know that's no an accurate representation of reality. they were not in a "tailspin." they were in a bit of a rough patch in the middle of february but by the time the all star game came around, they were already getting back on track. I remember the last pre-melo game. it was a game against the hawks. all the starters played well.

[GONYK]

I don't know how they feel about Kevin Martin in Houston. If they hate him, I think it'd be because he represents the post-Yao Rocket's inability to clinch a playoff berth. He's not nearly a bad enough player to warrant any hate.

I think he'd be a good piece is all. we wouldn't be asking him to drag us to the playoffs. Amar'e would be the first option. then between Martin, Lowry, and Gallo you'd have three guys more than capable of helping carry the load. a guy who is a low maintenance shooter like martin would fit in really well.

I'm a Rockets season ticket holder. I can tell you that Martin is hated because he sucks.

I mean, come one. look at that team and compare it to our current team. now that amar'e's injured, we're going to be depending on raymond felton and j.r. smith behind melo for the scoring. I know I'd wayyyyyy rather depend on Gallo, Lowry, and Martin than those two.

and first-option amar'e scored as many point as carmelo on better efficiency. I know he can't do all the things melo can do, but on a mike d'antoni type team, amar'e is a machine.

Neither team is as good as one with Melo, Amare, and Tyson

[GONYK]

I'm not sure that's accurate.

That NYK team was on pace to miss the playoffs. We were in a complete tailspin when we traded for Melo.

come on, GONYK. you know that's no an accurate representation of reality. they were not in a "tailspin." they were in a bit of a rough patch in the middle of february but by the time the all star game came around, they were already getting back on track. I remember the last pre-melo game. it was a game against the hawks. all the starters played well.

I'm not sure how to find out this info, but can someone find out what our record was for the previous 10 games before the trade?

[knicksosmoove]

I don't know how they feel about Kevin Martin in Houston. If they hate him, I think it'd be because he represents the post-Yao Rocket's inability to clinch a playoff berth. He's not nearly a bad enough player to warrant any hate.

I think he'd be a good piece is all. we wouldn't be asking him to drag us to the playoffs. Amar'e would be the first option. then between Martin, Lowry, and Gallo you'd have three guys more than capable of helping carry the load. a guy who is a low maintenance shooter like martin would fit in really well.

I'm a Rockets season ticket holder. I can tell you that Martin is hated because he sucks.

I mean, come one. look at that team and compare it to our current team. now that amar'e's injured, we're going to be depending on raymond felton and j.r. smith behind melo for the scoring. I know I'd wayyyyyy rather depend on Gallo, Lowry, and Martin than those two.

and first-option amar'e scored as many point as carmelo on better efficiency. I know he can't do all the things melo can do, but on a mike d'antoni type team, amar'e is a machine.

Neither team is as good as one with Melo, Amare, and Tyson

mannnn I dunno if we're going to see eye-to-eye about this. I don't think kevin martin sucks. I think he's a good player as long as you don't put stupid expectations on him. he's a scorer who can pour it efficiently (yes, efficiently, TS% is clearly a superior measure of efficiency than fg%) without demanding the ball. that's what he is, and I think if you put him on the right team, he's very useful. he ain't lebron james. he won't drag your team to the western conference finals. but with the right group of players, I'd want him on my team. I think if houston fans think he sucks then they're wrong.

and where has the great melo/amar'e/tyson trio led this team? they were on their way to missing the playoffs before jeremy lin saved their butts. then they scraped by as a 7th seed (remember: the old team was a 6th seed and I think it's easy to say that lowry/martin are upgrades from felton/chandler) and got their butts handed to them by miami. I need RESULTS before I can talk about how wonderful it is that we have melo, amar'e, and chandler all at once. until then, they're just names on paper.

[knicksosmoove]

I'm not sure that's accurate.

That NYK team was on pace to miss the playoffs. We were in a complete tailspin when we traded for Melo.

come on, GONYK. you know that's no an accurate representation of reality. they were not in a "tailspin." they were in a bit of a rough patch in the middle of february but by the time the all star game came around, they were already getting back on track. I remember the last pre-melo game. it was a game against the hawks. all the starters played well.

I'm not sure how to find out this info, but can someone find out what our record was for the previous 10 games before the trade?

it's on basketball reference.

2-16 versus Hawks: W
2-12 versus Nets: W (good game, I don't think Amar'e played)
2-11 versus Lakers: L (no shame in that but people overreacted)
2-9 versus Clippers: L (that one made me mad)
2-6 versus 76ers: W
2-4 versus 76ers: L (don't remember)
2-2 versus Mavericks: L (no shame in that whatsoever)
1-30 versus Pistons: W (the MOZGOD game)
1-28 versus Hawks: L
1-27 versus Heat: W (BIG TIME GAME FROM LANDRY FIELDS AND DANILO GALLINARI)

sooooo 5-5. not great. not a tailspin.

[GONYK]

mannnn I dunno if we're going to see eye-to-eye about this. I don't think kevin martin sucks. I think he's a good player as long as you don't put stupid expectations on him. he's a scorer who can pour it efficiently (yes, efficiently, TS% is clearly a superior measure of efficiency than fg%) without demanding the ball. that's what he is, and I think if you put him on the right team, he's very useful. he ain't lebron james. he won't drag your team to the western conference finals. but with the right group of players, I'd want him on my team. I think if houston fans think he sucks then they're wrong.

I think you're remembering Sacto Kevin Martin. Houston's Kevin Martin is a near liability on both ends. His offense might look good on paper, but he has 0 impact on games.

He's known as the Invisible Man here.

and where has the great melo/amar'e/tyson trio led this team? they were on their way to missing the playoffs before jeremy lin saved their butts. then they scraped by as a 7th seed (remember: the old team was a 6th seed and I think it's easy to say that lowry/martin are upgrades from felton/chandler) and got their butts handed to them by miami. I need RESULTS before I can talk about how wonderful it is that we have melo, amar'e, and chandler all at once. until then, they're just names on paper.

This team needs a PG. That's undeniable. But this team rebounds and plays defense. Something the team you put together does not.

[knicksosmoove]

mannnn I dunno if we're going to see eye-to-eye about this. I don't think kevin martin sucks. I think he's a good player as long as you don't put stupid expectations on him. he's a scorer who can pour it efficiently (yes, efficiently, TS% is clearly a superior measure of efficiency than fg%) without demanding the ball. that's what he is, and I think if you put him on the right team, he's very useful. he ain't lebron james. he won't drag your team to the western conference finals. but with the right group of players, I'd want him on my team. I think if houston fans think he sucks then they're wrong.

I think you're remembering Sacto Kevin Martin. Houston's Kevin Martin is a near liability on both ends. His offense might look good on paper, but he has 0 impact on games.

He's known as the Invisible Man here.

and where has the great melo/amar'e/tyson trio led this team? they were on their way to missing the playoffs before jeremy lin saved their butts. then they scraped by as a 7th seed (remember: the old team was a 6th seed and I think it's easy to say that lowry/martin are upgrades from felton/chandler) and got their butts handed to them by miami. I need RESULTS before I can talk about how wonderful it is that we have melo, amar'e, and chandler all at once. until then, they're just names on paper.

This team needs a PG. That's undeniable. But this team rebounds and plays defense. Something the team you put together does not.

okay, our team played good defense. they were not a good rebounding team. they were by all measures mediocre (hollinger had them at 16 in rebounding) ... but more importantly, they didn't win! who cares if they're good at defense if it's not leading to w's?

I don't care how it gets done, I just want W's. there are more than 1 ways to skin a cat. I think my theoretical team is a team that has an identity--it's a good fit under the d'antoni model. I don't know what model our current team fits under ... the chuck and duck model I guess

[knicksosmoove]

and say what you will about the d'antoni model ... we've seen it work before with the suns. we saw it work for us for 2010 and linsanity. it's the model that would have made the most sense given that we handed amar'e stoudemire a max contract. that's how you get some bang for your buck there.

[GONYK]

it's on basketball reference.

2-16 versus Hawks: W
2-12 versus Nets: W (good game, I don't think Amar'e played)
2-11 versus Lakers: L (no shame in that but people overreacted)
2-9 versus Clippers: L (that one made me mad)
2-6 versus 76ers: W
2-4 versus 76ers: L (don't remember)
2-2 versus Mavericks: L (no shame in that whatsoever)
1-30 versus Pistons: W (the MOZGOD game)
1-28 versus Hawks: L
1-27 versus Heat: W (BIG TIME GAME FROM LANDRY FIELDS AND DANILO GALLINARI)

sooooo 5-5. not great. not a tailspin.

Thanks for the source. Let me correct myself. Here are the 20 games before the trade.

2-16 versus Hawks: W
2-12 versus Nets: W
2-11 versus Lakers: L
2-9 versus Clippers: L
2-6 versus 76ers: W
2-4 versus 76ers: L
2-2 versus Mavericks: L
1-30 versus Pistons: W
1-28 versus Hawks: L
1-27 versus Heat: W
1-24 versus Washington W
1-22 versus OKC L
1-21 versus San Antonio L
1-19 versus Houston L
1-17 versus Phoenix L
1-14 versus Sacto L
1-12 versus Utah L
1-11 versus Portland W
1-9 versus LAL L
1-7 versus Phoenix W

8-11, with some very bad losses.

Perhaps you're correct. Not a tailspin as a I remember it. But I do remember feeling like the team was trending downward.

[jeremylin17]

Are we rooting for the Knicks or are we rooting for Amare here? Because you saying Amare can't work as a second option means you think we should have built a team around him?' No team with Amare as its 1st option is going anywhere. No team. Nash was option 1 and 2 in Phoenix.

You mentioned CP3 and Derron. Those guys would have been option 1 also. I don't get your point.

LOL a first option is your best scorer. And amare is their scorer. Dirk had nash too yet amare/nash duo had achieved the same so please we really havent seen a team built around amare. All I know is the guy was near the finish line multiple times so its stupid to think that amare as its number 1 option is going anywhere. I think youre confusing melo with amare LOL. The guy whos competing for the worst playoff record. And we couldve gotten nash easily as what the lakers did. He was the mvp of the league before melo while I dont think melo has even been considered the mvp of the league at one time.