ImageImageImageImageImage

Our Projected Depth Chart

Moderators: nate33, montestewart, LyricalRico

User avatar
SUPERBALLMAN
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,817
And1: 862
Joined: Aug 08, 2006
     

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#361 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:49 pm

nuposse04 wrote:Didn't randy say the best guy would play? Anybody with half a brain would see that Webster should be starting. I know you shouldn't look into preseason too much, but he's really been a nice surprise out there.

Price/Mack
Beal/JC
Webster/Singleton/Ariza
Booker/Singleton/Jan
Okafor/Seraphin/Jan

is how I think it should look opening day assuming Nene will miss the opener.



On top of that, once healthy (with Wall and Nene), I like what Webster brings to the starting lineup. I like a starting 5 of Wall, Beal, Webster, Nene, Okafor... Wall running the offense with 2 inside threats (Okafor/Nene) and 2 perimeter threats with Webster and Beal. IMO Webster adds much needed balance to the starting unit.

Starters:
Okafor, Nene, Webster, Beal, Wall

Top reserves:
Seraphin, Booker/Singleton/Ariza, Crawford, Price
"I love it when a plan comes together" - Colonel John "Hannibal" Smith
MikeTheKid
Head Coach
Posts: 6,725
And1: 4,213
Joined: Jan 24, 2012
Location: DC/MD/VA
         

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#362 » by MikeTheKid » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:17 am

When all are healthy:

Wall/Price/Mack
Beal/JC/Martin
Webster/Singleton/Ariza
Nene/Booker/Ves/Singleton
Okafor/Seraphin/Ves
hands11
Banned User
Posts: 31,171
And1: 2,444
Joined: May 16, 2005

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#363 » by hands11 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:45 am

nuposse04 wrote:Didn't randy say the best guy would play? Anybody with half a brain would see that Webster should be starting. I know you shouldn't look into preseason too much, but he's really been a nice surprise out there.

Price/Mack
Beal/JC
Webster/Singleton/Ariza
Booker/Singleton/Jan
Okafor/Seraphin/Jan

is how I think it should look opening day assuming Nene will miss the opener.


Price/Mack/JC
Beal/JC/Webster
Webster/Singleton/Ariza
Booker/Jan/Singleton
Okafor/Seraphin/Jan/Cook

Or maybe something like this. I think that would be more likely from Randy. Or maybe

Price/Mack/JC
Beal/JC/Webster
Webster/Ariza/Singleton
Booker/Singleton/Jan
Okafor/Seraphin/Jan/Cook

It may not be what we want, but it just seems hard to see TA not at least being a back up to start the season. Then if he still sucks, he would become third string.

Anything is possible with this roster. Only real clear starter is Wall when healthy. But it will get worked out. I'm not to worried. I trust Randy to get it done. Anyway, it doesn't matter so much who starts. They will most lightly go 10 deep at 20-25 minutes.
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 66,783
And1: 19,069
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#364 » by nate33 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:10 pm

MikeTheKid wrote:When all are healthy:

Wall/Price/Mack
Beal/JC/Martin
Webster/Singleton/Ariza
Nene/Booker/Ves/Singleton
Okafor/Seraphin/Ves

With the way Beal and Webster are playing (like legit NBA starters), that team is a definite playoff team if healthy. The question is, how healthy will Wall and Nene be?
User avatar
Nivek
Head Coach
Posts: 7,406
And1: 959
Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Contact:
         

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#365 » by Nivek » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:23 pm

Webster isn't just playing like a legit starter -- his overall production in the preseason rates about the same as what Lebron James did last season. Much of it on outlandishly good efficiency (138 ortg). Hard to imagine him keeping up anything close to that.
"A lot of what we call talent is the desire to practice."
-- Malcolm Gladwell

Check out my blog about the Wizards, movies, writing, music, TV, sports, and whatever else comes to mind.
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 52,609
And1: 8,968
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#366 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:23 pm

Wow, I knew Webster was playing well but not THAT well.

Edited out my question after I pressed the link ...
Bye bye Beal.
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 52,609
And1: 8,968
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#367 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:30 pm

I never would have advised Vesely to gain weight. Quickness, leaping ability, and shooting are what I would have asked him to work on. I don't think he's out of shape.

I wonder if he and Wall got hurt trying to bulk up too much too soon. I cannot substantiate those assertions, but they seem plausible. Guys can injure themselves by carrying more weight, by lifting improperly, by putting too much stress on a giving joint or ligament, and by not stretching sufficiently before and after doing heavy lifting.

Bulk can obviously take away explosiveness, and that is what is happening with Vesely IMO.
Bye bye Beal.
User avatar
dandridge 10
Veteran
Posts: 2,500
And1: 537
Joined: Feb 16, 2005

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#368 » by dandridge 10 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:10 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I never would have advised Vesely to gain weight. Quickness, leaping ability, and shooting are what I would have asked him to work on. I don't think he's out of shape.

I wonder if he and Wall got hurt trying to bulk up too much too soon. I cannot substantiate those assertions, but they seem plausible. Guys can injure themselves by carrying more weight, by lifting improperly, by putting too much stress on a giving joint or ligament, and by not stretching sufficiently before and after doing heavy lifting.

Bulk can obviously take away explosiveness, and that is what is happening with Vesely IMO.


It would be hard for me to believe that a professional athlete does not know how to lift properly or stretch sufficiently. I also don't see much added bulk on Vesely. He looked slightly fatter during summer league, but he seems about the same size now than he was last year. IMO, I think Vesely's biggest problem is between his ears. He doesn't seem to possess much confidence when it comes to handling or shooting the ball. He also needs to work on his shooting mechanics more because he often releases the ball on the way down.
Zonkerbl
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 8,186
And1: 4,154
Joined: Mar 24, 2010
       

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#369 » by Zonkerbl » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:17 pm

No, he definitely looks thicker to me. May just be the natural thickening that happens in your early twenties, but that usually tends to be muscle.
I've been taught all my life to value service to the weak and powerless.
hands11
Banned User
Posts: 31,171
And1: 2,444
Joined: May 16, 2005

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#370 » by hands11 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:17 pm

nate33 wrote:
MikeTheKid wrote:When all are healthy:

Wall/Price/Mack
Beal/JC/Martin
Webster/Singleton/Ariza
Nene/Booker/Ves/Singleton
Okafor/Seraphin/Ves

With the way Beal and Webster are playing (like legit NBA starters), that team is a definite playoff team if healthy. The question is, how healthy will Wall and Nene be?


You go Nate. That's what I'm talking about.
hands11
Banned User
Posts: 31,171
And1: 2,444
Joined: May 16, 2005

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#371 » by hands11 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:27 pm

dandridge 10 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I never would have advised Vesely to gain weight. Quickness, leaping ability, and shooting are what I would have asked him to work on. I don't think he's out of shape.

I wonder if he and Wall got hurt trying to bulk up too much too soon. I cannot substantiate those assertions, but they seem plausible. Guys can injure themselves by carrying more weight, by lifting improperly, by putting too much stress on a giving joint or ligament, and by not stretching sufficiently before and after doing heavy lifting.

Bulk can obviously take away explosiveness, and that is what is happening with Vesely IMO.


It would be hard for me to believe that a professional athlete does not know how to lift properly or stretch sufficiently. I also don't see much added bulk on Vesely. He looked slightly fatter during summer league, but he seems about the same size now than he was last year. IMO, I think Vesely's biggest problem is between his ears. He doesn't seem to possess much confidence when it comes to handling or shooting the ball. He also needs to work on his shooting mechanics more because he often releases the ball on the way down.


I remember reading a post from an international Ves fan that said it was not unusual for Ves to come into camp not in peak shape but then to play himself into it.

As for his confidence. I see him shooting more. I wouldn't worry to much. Obviously this is a process given he wouldn't shoot from outside at all last year. I wouldn't worry. He is clearly making progress.
hands11
Banned User
Posts: 31,171
And1: 2,444
Joined: May 16, 2005

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#372 » by hands11 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:14 am

Cuts are going to be tough.

Wall, Price
Beal, Crawford
Webster, Singleton, Trevor A
Nene, Booker, Ves
Okafor, Kevin

Thats 12 you know they are keeping and they can have 13 active with 15 total.

But here is what they will have opening day.

Price
Beal, Crawford
Webster, Singleton, Trevor A
Booker, Ves
Okafor

====

Mack and Pargo are on partials contracts
Mack is never going to get any quicker so I fear he is just a waste of time at PG.
Pargo is no PG, but he can shoot from range and they need shooters.

Martin has not been impressive at all. I so wish they keep Mason. I believe Martin is due 915K.

Barron has made a case for himself. Specially if we are injured up front. Nene and Kevin out
Cook would be best if all the bigs are healthy because he is a big that can shoot the 3 and a vet
Barron is more a post standard center. Cook more the extra piece you add that fills a special need.

====

Here is what I would do. Keep Pargo, Barron and Cook. That 15 but correct me if I am wrong, non of these plays would get full contract unless they play well into the season so you can always let them go later if need to open a spot. Short term they want Barron. Longer term they want Cook. But until the front court is healthy, they need both.

Price, Pargo
Beal, Crawford
Webster, Singleton, Trevor A
Booker, Ves
Okafor, Barron, Cook

PG I would start Price with Beal. When Pargo comes in, I would let Crawford run the PG in half court just like he has been doing when he is out there with Mack. Let Mack go. He is neither quick enough, tall enough or a good enough shooter to keep around. If they want him later when Wall returns, I'm sure he will be available. Crawford and Beal can help start the offense in half court and the whole team just needs to pass it around. Booker and Ves are good interior passers so that helps.

SG if I needed something extra, I would move Webster there and let Singleton and Trevor A fill SF while he is at SG

SF You have it cover with 3 players

PF Booker and Ves can get it done and you can slide Singleton there if needed.

C You have it cover with Baron backing up Oak until Kevin is 100% and ready to roll. Plus Cook can play some minutes and add professional level play.

When the front line get healthy, you can slide a Barron to the D League and keep him around until you know Nene and Kevin are truly healthy. When they get there, they can cut Barron if they want to audition other players or if something they like comes available. Maybe we get Singleton back again after the China season is over. Seems to be his thing. Maybe Mason comes free.

This would be my preference but it would cost Ted about 1M to do. Not sure they are willing to do that. If they decide that want to keep Martin, they I have to decide between Cook and Barron which is a tough call while the front court is injured.
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 52,609
And1: 8,968
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#373 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:52 am

Martin is a goner for sure. I think Shelvin is, too. Personally, i would cut Pargo because Shelvin can run the offense without turning the ball over. Between Cook and Barron, I think they'll keep Cook.
Bye bye Beal.
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 21,928
And1: 7,855
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#374 » by payitforward » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:44 pm

Hands -- Don't know whether any of the non-guaranteed contracts have a "gel" date past the season's start. Not even sure what the new CBA allows in this regard.

I disagree w/ some of your preferred cuts/keeps:

Martin's shot has not been dropping, but he's proven to be a good enough shooter that I'm not worried about it. He has a guaranteed contract; I can't imagine him being cut or see any reason to cut him.

Cutting Mack... no. His overall salary is cheap, and we owed him some part of it anyway. And we have an option on him for next year. He should get a year to demonstrate what kind of player he can be. He was not all that bad last year. Below average to be sure, but he did some good things and has again this pre-season.

A lot of people liked Barron when he was young -- for an undrafted guy with size, I mean. But, he never got anything done anywhere and he's 31. He played well last night. That's not a reason to sign him. Cook is the better player, if we do need to keep a marginal big.
Breaking News: In a shocking development, Wizards owner Ted Leonsis has sold the NBA franchise to a consortium of participants in a discussion board devoted to the team on realgm.com. Details to follow....
hands11
Banned User
Posts: 31,171
And1: 2,444
Joined: May 16, 2005

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#375 » by hands11 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:33 pm

payitforward wrote:Hands -- Don't know whether any of the non-guaranteed contracts have a "gel" date past the season's start. Not even sure what the new CBA allows in this regard.

I disagree w/ some of your preferred cuts/keeps:

Martin's shot has not been dropping, but he's proven to be a good enough shooter that I'm not worried about it. He has a guaranteed contract; I can't imagine him being cut or see any reason to cut him.

Cutting Mack... no. His overall salary is cheap, and we owed him some part of it anyway. And we have an option on him for next year. He should get a year to demonstrate what kind of player he can be. He was not all that bad last year. Below average to be sure, but he did some good things and has again this pre-season.

A lot of people liked Barron when he was young -- for an undrafted guy with size, I mean. But, he never got anything done anywhere and he's 31. He played well last night. That's not a reason to sign him. Cook is the better player, if we do need to keep a marginal big.


I had heard something about I think Livingston where his date for full contract wasn't until next year.

As for Martin and Mack. I just don't see either as having a future here so I have no loyalty to either. That said, I would be surprised if they cut Martin since they did make a choice to keep him via the contract and letting Mason walk. They will likely ride it out but longer term, I don't see him here.

As for Barron. He played well in more then just last nights game and given our front court health, he will be considered.

I laid out the pros and cons and the situation they are in. I think it was balance and objective. I gave my personal preference and then said what they would likely decide. They probably keep Martin. Given that, they have to choose between Mack or Pargo and Cook or Barron. Its easy to see them keeping Martin, Mack and Cook. But I don't think that would yield the best results. I would keep Pargo, Barron and Cook.

Keeping Martin forces them to make other chooses that I don't think is best for them. Specially since Martin is just a fringe player who may not even be here next year. I say take your medicine now. Eat the 1M. They really don't need him since Webster has shown so well but they need the front court help and insurance policy until our regulars show they are healthy.
User avatar
PerkinsFor3
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,833
And1: 1,973
Joined: Nov 10, 2004
Contact:

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#376 » by PerkinsFor3 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:39 pm

I was wondering, with Serpahin playing really well late last year and Okafor being quite limited, wouldn't it be smarter to play Serpahin with the starters? I'd assume he's the future at C and you want to 'evolve' him as a player rather than Giving Okafor most of the minutes? Okafor has got one year left so whether he plays or not: he'll be very interesting as a expiring contract next year. Plus, wouldn't the combination of Nene and Serpahin provide more front court scoring?
User avatar
SUPERBALLMAN
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,817
And1: 862
Joined: Aug 08, 2006
     

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#377 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:06 am

Agree final cuts are gonna be tough and very unpredictable right now.

Definites are Okafor, Seraphin, Nene, Vesely, Booker, Singleton, Ariza, Webster, Beal, Crawford, Price, Wall.

That leaves a max of 3 spots between Barron, Cook, Martin, Pargo, Mack.

Martin I think is the surest keeper of the group due to lack of depth at his position and lack of his skill (outside shooting) on the roster. He has also proven himself in the regular season for this coaching staff, accepts his role, works hard with good attitude and low salary.

Barron is suddenly a wild card. He played really well last night against Duncan. For a team with a bunch of injury issues in the frontcourt (Nene, Okafor, Seraphin, Booker), he could provide valuable depth. Also, for a team not loaded with size he would be the team's only 7 footer. Also I assume he got the starting opp last night based on playing good in practice, and he delivered. Call me crazy, but to me that performance was enough to beat out Cook for a spot at the end of our bench.

The Mack vs Pargo choice is tough. I think they have played pretty evenly. Mack IMO may get the edge due to more upside/youth (this being his 1st training camp), and has shown excellent work ethic and attitude since coming here. Pargo could get the spot though with management's fondness for adding vets, as well as his outside shooting. I keep expecting Mack to shoot better than he does, I seemed to think of him as a good shooter in college and in fact more of a SG than PG, so I do think he still has the potential to improve in that regard. Personally, of the two I would keep Mack.

So that's what I've got... them going to a full roster of 15 with Martin, Barron, and Mack. We'll soon see what they actually do.
"I love it when a plan comes together" - Colonel John "Hannibal" Smith
User avatar
Nivek
Head Coach
Posts: 7,406
And1: 959
Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Contact:
         

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#378 » by Nivek » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:18 am

I agree with your definites, although Crawford SHOULD be on the cut list. I don't see the cuts as difficult, though.

Mack over Pargo.

Cook over Barron.

Martin makes the team despite poor preseason play because of what he's done the past couple years and his guaranteed contract.

Barron and Pargo have both been bad in the preseason. Mack and Cook have been at least okay. Easy choices, in my view.

That said, I'd be perfectly willing to cut Barron, Cook, Pargo and Crawford and go shopping for other minimum salary bench filler. I think the Wiz could find street free agents who would do a better job than anyone in that group.
"A lot of what we call talent is the desire to practice."
-- Malcolm Gladwell

Check out my blog about the Wizards, movies, writing, music, TV, sports, and whatever else comes to mind.
hands11
Banned User
Posts: 31,171
And1: 2,444
Joined: May 16, 2005

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#379 » by hands11 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:11 am

loot wrote:I was wondering, with Serpahin playing really well late last year and Okafor being quite limited, wouldn't it be smarter to play Serpahin with the starters? I'd assume he's the future at C and you want to 'evolve' him as a player rather than Giving Okafor most of the minutes? Okafor has got one year left so whether he plays or not: he'll be very interesting as a expiring contract next year. Plus, wouldn't the combination of Nene and Serpahin provide more front court scoring?


If we have that problem, then everyone is healthy.

Those ideas has been posted plenty of times in the past. But again, who starts isn't going to be all that important since Randy will play 10 men deep and they will all be getting 20-25 minutes.

Nene, Okafor with Booker, Kevin
Nene, Kevin with Booker, Okafor

There will be Ves combinations as well.

They should all work. One good things is that both Nene and Booker are good passers. That's going to help. Hell, Kevin and Ves are good passers as well. The interior passing should be fun to watch this year.
User avatar
PerkinsFor3
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,833
And1: 1,973
Joined: Nov 10, 2004
Contact:

Re: Our Projected Depth Chart 

Post#380 » by PerkinsFor3 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:48 am

Thanks for the insights Hands. I've been hoping for major minutes for Kevin since he was drafted, like him a lot as a starter!

Return to Washington Wizards