James Harden traded to the Rockets

[DreDay]

And this guy is worth the max? Really? Martin could hit these shots in his sleep as well.

[Bskey]

Why are people acting like Harden is Kobe? Yes he's insanely efficient but it's hard to be featured when you're playing with Westbrook and Durant. Defenses are going to really close in on this guy now. He was perfect for his role in OKC. I don't see him as a guy that can carry a team, but we will see I guess. Rockets are really swinging for the fences this year to try and build a great team. Not really impressed with the result (only on paper, they may perform well yet). Won't fault them for trying something instead of just sitting on their thumbs like most mediocre teams do for so long though. I wouldn't mind seeing the Rockets do well, they have quite a few guys wanting/needing to prove their worth now. Could be exciting.

For OKC, you get a decent fill in with Martin and a future prospect. Picks aside (which included I say OKC "won" the deal) You get Lamb who you HOPE can live up to what Harden was doing. But once he gets to that level, with a big if involved, you'll have to pay him too. Do The Thunder hope they can just keep getting rookie SGs to groom into 6th man all-star roles and trade them away before paying them? What was the point of this... you give up current production hoping you can get it again in the future, which is unlikely given how efficient Harden was in his role. OKC shouldn't have been looking to win a trade for the future, they need to focus on the present which this fails miserably in doing. It's not about winning trades with them, it's about winning a championship. At least it should be. Do I think they can still do it without Harden? Possibly, but the way everyone from the staff, players and fans talked about Harden it certainly is going to get much more difficult. It's sad that a team so close is being hit with a money saving trade.

I think both teams could end up regretting this trade to be honest. Harden is a good player, it remains to be seen whether he can be "the" player though.

[jym85]

The Rockets would look pretty good if they still had Scola and Dragic

[PurpleRooster]

Its comical that anyone thinks having Kevin Martin as your third or fourth best player makes you worse.

This is a perfect role for Martin to excel. Playing with Durant and Westbrook is the best thing that could of happened to his career.

This. His efficiency will skyrocket to Harden levels. It wouldn't surprise me if a "Is Kevin Martin worth the max" thread pops up.

Sad but true

[Cruel_Ruin]

James Harden is the next Joe Johnson. He's not that good. OKC won't drop off much at all.

[RutgersBJJ]

I would have traded for an offensive minded F/C if I was dead-set on trading Harden. They aren't even getting back to the WCF if Perkins is in their starting lineup. I think the day after Dwight goes 20/20 on him in the first OKC/LAL match-up the myth of him being a good defender will go away.

Hell, you clearly could have gotten Dwight Howard either for Harden or for the package that Harden just netted. Wonder why a 3 team deal with HST, OKC, and ORL never happened...

Which makes you assume that ultimately this was all about money. Funny that the luxury tax has caused no harm to any large market team (Lakers, Nets, and Knicks all committed to paying the high tax long-term this summer), but effectively just destroyed the championship window of a mid-market team. Oops...

[Sedale Threatt]

You are looking very short term. Harden, should he perform to a 20+ 5 and 5 line is now on track to be maxed for maybe 8-10 YEARS. That money adds up big time. It would never happen as a 6th man (even an important one) for OKC. Now he's gonna play 36 minutes, put up numbers, go to all star games AND maybe make 50 million more over the course of his career. And yes we really are talking 50 mil if you consider his next contract after this one. Plus i think he will still have his chance at championships. Houston has become a very astute franchise and they can attract top big man at some point (Howard maybe or Cousins down the line)

Seemed to work out OK for Manu Ginobili, who took less, won more and recently said he was more than happy with what he's made in his career. Just depends on what your priorities are.

[C-izMe]

Well I notice your criteria wouldn't include Martin. Clever.

He's just as bad as Harden but at least they got another defender in Lamb too and Kmart is really just a place holder.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

This doesn't make any sense for OKC. Kevin Martin can do nothing but score. James Harden's beast quality in my opinion was anchoring and effectively running the second unit as a point guard off the bench. Can Kevin Martin really do that? There better be a TON of good picks here otherwise I can't figure out what makes him pull off a deal like this

Trivia question: Who is Eric Maynor?

OKC has a PG who is healthy and who might make a major impact with their second unit. He won't be a superstar like Harden but if Maynor is good facilitator, good three point shooter, and clutch player he might be a Chalmers/Cole type player.

Nobody is talking about him today, but the way i see it OKC's second unit is loaded with Maynor, Lamb, Perry Jones III all very capable players and Kevin Martin being a go to scorer if both Durant and Westbrook rest.

[Ayt]

Well I notice your criteria wouldn't include Martin. Clever.

He's just as bad as Harden but at least they got another defender in Lamb too and Kmart is really just a place holder.

Lamb is a plus as a defender? What?

[fallacy]

Harden always said that he would sacrifice a little bit of money to say with this team. OKC offered 6 million dollars off of max and Harden turned it down. Everyone on this team who has signed has sacrificed some money (maybe except Durant).

Apparently Harden was all talk and lied to all of the fans, I don't blame him for lying but he did. This is how OKC and Presti are, they don't back down. Now we'll see if this way of working hurts them

[desertlakerfan]

I think people are just judging Kevin Martin straight up....regardless of how he played on the Rockets, in the context of him being your third or fourth best guy...that's great.

You aren't looking at what Harden brought to the Thunder, he was much more than just a scorer off the bench. He was a complete player, their best playmaker, and was on the court in crunch time facilitating for Westbrook and Durant. The three of them on the court together was a nightmare to defend, Westbrook Durant and Martin just don't have that same effect.

There is no way Martin is going to be able to fulfill the role Harden did for OKC, which is why it's a overall downgrade to their championship hopes for the near term.

[Guy986]

Its comical that anyone thinks having Kevin Martin as your third or fourth best player makes you worse.

This is a perfect role for Martin to excel. Playing with Durant and Westbrook is the best thing that could of happened to his career.

This. His efficiency will skyrocket to Harden levels. It wouldn't surprise me if a "Is Kevin Martin worth the max" thread pops up.

Sad but true

Martin's efficiency will obviously rise. Maybe even back to elite level. But he still wont be able to dribble the basketball playing next to Kevin Durant and Westbrook. Or defend. Or pass. Or rebound.

[StitchJones]

Some of the comparison to Joe Johnson is true, but I think Harden atacks the basket better which will make a difference. I think he's a 20 plus score and still pretty efficient. I know i'll be watching some rockets games now on league pass.

[therealbig3]

Because he's an excellent playmaker that is an elite 3pt shooter, who rarely turns the ball over, and is excellent at getting to the line (and converting his FTs).

You don't need a great midrange game to be a top 3 SG. I mean, Wade has been pretty bad from midrange (and 3) the last few years, but he was still unquestionably a top 2 SG.

We'll see if Harden's 3pt shooting holds up without a driving KD and Westbrook causing defenses to collapse into the lane. I'm also eager to see if he can handle having defenses key on him, going up against the other team's first unit most of the time. As for Wade, he's only getting away with his terrible shooting due to playing with two other likely Hall of Famers. Put him on the Rockets in Harden's place and if he didn't recover his J, he'd be in big trouble.

You took offense to comparing Harden to Ginobili offensively, but the same things you're questioning with Harden...they're the same things that I could ask of Ginobili. He's always played next to Parker and Duncan, he's never played big minutes, he's usually spent most of his time coming off the bench and playing against other 2nd units, and he's played for a way better coach than Harden probably ever will.

And look at Harden's and Ginobili's midrange shooting numbers...pretty identical, both in terms of percentages and attempts. Ginobili plays the same way, lots of 3s, lots of FTs, rarely shoots from midrange.

[TruSkool]

OKC won this trade hands down...

perry jones, jeremy lamb, serge ibaka, kevin durant, russell westbrook, and 2 first round picks next year.

thats ridiculous. james harden is very very good, but he wasn't worth all that.


and then you have kevin martin!

[DEEP3CL]

somewhere the Laker fans are smiling

I wouldn't go that far, it was going to be a different story around this time and they know it.

[Archerbro]

People are overrating harden. He is AWFUL in the finals. Martin and Lamb plus 3 picks???

Precisely. Harden isn't a #1 option.

OKC might miss out on the finals this year because of the trade, but this is a brilliant move for them for the next 5 years.

at the same time, even if they keep martin for the max (theoretically). That's a guaranteed at least 1 title over the next 5 years with westbrook harden durant.

[Neutral 123]

So no one really knew about this, I mean KD was on the OU sideline chilling, at least tell your main guy about the trade.

Yeah this is just the start. With this new move to parity. KD will leave for the Lakers, and Westbrook to the Knicks, and the Thunder will have noting to show for it.

I understand the sarcasm, but on the real tho?

Durant must be pretty pissed. That's his boy and he's been on record many times saying that Harden isn't going anywhere.

I'm sure that he will say all the right words in public, cause that's his image, but privately he's probably fuming.

It also creates a lack of trust with the org as well. They traded him in an instant. Why wouldn't anyone else think they couldn't face the same fate. There isn't much loyalty from teams, but some actually try to create that illusion. This is bad for player relations... smh.

[fallacy]

Also, Harden playing like **** in the playoffs and even worse in the preseason when they let him be "the man" without Westbrook/Durant playing didn't help his cause for max.


EDIT: AND Ibaka looked amazing in the preseason kind of made Harden expendable because they want to use Ibaka more