James Harden traded to the Rockets

[therealbig3]

Truly amazing that taking a 44% TS% shot from 18 feet more often than the other guy is now considered a strength, particularly for a guy that's playing off 2 guys with midrange games.

Hurrah! Kevin Martin can shoot those long 2's with the best of em!

LOL, exactly.

Seems so weird that people are going to criticize Harden for not taking the most inefficient shot in the game, while he takes and makes a ton of 3s and FTs, which are the most efficient shots in the game.

And all of the people criticizing Harden for this...seriously, how is what Manu does any different? Do you feel the same way about Manu as you do about Harden?

[AP4LIFE]

Saying that Harden is a foundational franchise player is stretching it big time, Westbrook and Durent are franchise players. Harden and Ibaka are seond tier stars, they can't carry a team by themselves. Now Harden will be the focus of everyteam playing againts Hou so will see how he adjusts to that. Rockets gave them too much.

[luckysunday20]

So the Rockets just traded 3 1st (Raps/Mavs/Lamb) a Bobcats second and Kevin Martins expiring for the right to be the team that makes Harden a max player?

Not that I think that Harden is a bad player but they should have really made OKC choose the Mavs pick or Lamb or Kmarts and his contract not give them all 3 wtf lol? I bet Presti flip Kmart for a mid to late 1st thus making this trade look like 4 1st round picks for Jame Harden...

[CBB_Fan]

I dont get why so many people are saying Harden is a proven player....

His stats have gotten better every season but he has only had ONE good season.

To many players these days are able to take advantage of one good year. I guess its what draws in the fans...

But in my opinion from what I have seen of Harden, last year was a flash in the pan.

Lamb > Harden = Martin

I have no idea how you can say that, because Lamb is Kmart Jr. Kmart is what best Lamb "might" be 3-4 years, and Harden > Kmart.

[Edrees]

One thing people fail to realize is that Martin is 29 and only going to be declining, whereas Harden can keep improving at such a young age. I don't like trading a young player for an older one unless the older one is the better player.

I don't think the dropoff from Harden to Martin is very sizable to be honest, so its not a terrible trade for the Thunder, but their core won't quite have the youth advantage it once had.'

I do think the Rockets did get the worse end of the deal, becauser Harden's not really worth the cap space. With a core of Asik, Lin, and Harden, can the rockets really be contenders? This move sounds like it makes them a perenial low playoff seed year after year.

Truly amazing that taking a 44% TS% shot from 18 feet more often than the other guy is now considered a strength, particularly for a guy that's playing off 2 guys with midrange games.

Hurrah! Kevin Martin can shoot those long 2's with the best of em!

LOL, exactly.

Seems so weird that people are going to criticize Harden for not taking the most inefficient shot in the game, while he takes and makes a ton of 3s and FTs, which are the most efficient shots in the game.

And all of the people criticizing Harden for this...seriously, how is what Manu does any different? Do you feel the same way about Manu as you do about Harden?

Manu is clutch in the finals, and steps up for his team. Harden in the finals played like ****. BIG difference. If you put Manu Ginobli instead of James Harden coming off the bench in the finals last year, you could likely say the thunder are now the champions, or at the very least it would have come down to a game 6 or 7 even if Miami still won.

[BrooklynBulls]

Truly amazing that taking a 44% TS% shot from 18 feet more often than the other guy is now considered a strength, particularly for a guy that's playing off 2 guys with midrange games.

Hurrah! Kevin Martin can shoot those long 2's with the best of em!

Name one first option without a midrange game. Don't worry, I'll wait.

Name some superb athletes and fantastic ballhandlers that could shoot fts and 3 pointers at very high percentages, but could never actually manage a serviceable midrange game.

[C-izMe]

Using greater than signs clearly proved your point.

He has a whole career. Your using a 40 game sample to override a whole career of super efficency.

[Guy986]

I'd like to know which version of Kevin Martin you guys have watched lately.

These people are under the impression that Kevin Martin has a mid range game.

How many mid range shots has he taken as a rocket?

Last year he took 6.2 total per game. Harden took 1.8.

The year before he took 6.9. Harden took 1.9.

KMart last year shot 44% from 16-23 on 3 attempts per game. Harden shot 38% on 1 a game.

I dont know where you get your stats from and i certainly dont consider shots from 3-9 feet to be mid range shots.

According to hoopdata, Martin took 4.7 shots from 10-23 feet last year, 5.4 from the year before.

Yes thats more than Harden but if you expect Martin to produce numbers from the mid range then....... you will be disappointed/

He is strictly a 3 point bomber and a FT line stalker.

[Bertrob]

John Hollinger ‏@johnhollinger

What comes around goes around: 2nd rounder OKC got was one they originally had to give Boston to compensate for Jeff Green heart ailment.

Pretty cool

[sisibilio]

Morey got his star, the question is where do they go from here? They still got like 10 PFs on the roster, cap flex even after signing Harden to a max contract and their own pick

For the Thunder, the Raptors are in the mix for the 7th and 8th seeds in the East.

If Toronto gets to the playoff the pick is delayed.

Traded Kyle Lowry to Raptors for Gary Forbes, 2013 first round pick (protected top 3 and 15-30 in 2013, top 2 and 15-30 in 2014-15, top 1 and 15-30 in 2016-17, unprotected in 2018)

[Kupchak9]

Truly amazing that taking a 44% TS% shot from 18 feet more often than the other guy is now considered a strength, particularly for a guy that's playing off 2 guys with midrange games.

Hurrah! Kevin Martin can shoot those long 2's with the best of em!

Name one first option without a midrange game. Don't worry, I'll wait.

Rose had no midrange game by the time he was an All-Star

[Dragic13]

I dont get why so many people are saying Harden is a proven player....

His stats have gotten better every season but he has only had ONE good season.

To many players these days are able to take advantage of one good year. I guess its what draws in the fans...

But in my opinion from what I have seen of Harden, last year was a flash in the pan.

Lamb > Harden = Martin

You made some solid points...and then you said that Lamb (who hasn't played a single NBA game) is better then Harden.

I knew some1 would comment on that.

But I will stick to it.

As a fan of basketball and the NBA I have become used to making predictions and following players.

Everything I said is an opinion until the season starts.

They will become fact or false in a few weeks. But if i never made any predictions I would have nothing to hang my hat on.

[LoneyROY]

It is not Harden's fault that OKC have a cheap owner!!

Conversely, it's not Clay Bennett's fault that James Harden is more concerned about money than winning a championship. I rather doubt he'll ever have the chance to compete for one again... as for OKC, with Westbrook and Durant locked up long-term, they have a better chance.

Yeah, God forbid a kid seeking the most money he can get in his first big NBA contract.

This isn't a 10 year vet here.

[DreDay]

You can see who actually understands advanced stats, by their reaction in this thread.

You can see who can't take stats into context. Martin will have no issue getting close to Harden efficiency. Harden's job is so simple and so easy due to his cast that advanced stat lovers fell in love with him. As a #1, prepared for below average league efficiency at around 22ppg. Glorified Monta Ellis.

True. All of Harden's offense was easy off the ball shots. He never initiated the offense. He certainly didn't have the ball in his hands in key moments initiating the offense in the playoffs against the Spurs and Lakers last season. That didn't happen. OKC didn't put the ball in his hands at all during the season, even though he's easilly one of the best play making guards in the entire **** NBA.



I love how people who rag on "advanced stats" don't seem to have a basic understanding of the role a player plays on his team. Can you explain Harden's role on OKC, oaklandwarrior?

He didn't take any difficult shots of course. That's great because he didn't have to. His playmaking ability is pretty overrated around these parts. I never knew 3 assists a game means you are the best playmaking guard in the NBA. Tell that to Chris Paul, or if you talk about SG's, he's not a better playmaker than most of them. Most of his shots are open 3's/freethrows. Once again, he shows BBIQ. As a number one option, or a max player, I want much more than that.

Who cares about initiating the offense? Last time I checked, they have Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook, plus Eric Maynor off the bench. I would rather them handle the ball than James Harden, but perhaps you feel differently. I hope when Kevin Martin improves his efficiency that you don't claim that he's some sort of top 5 SG.

[Bertrob]

Is the Mavs pick unprotected?

[therealbig3]

Truly amazing that taking a 44% TS% shot from 18 feet more often than the other guy is now considered a strength, particularly for a guy that's playing off 2 guys with midrange games.

Hurrah! Kevin Martin can shoot those long 2's with the best of em!

Name one first option without a midrange game. Don't worry, I'll wait.

How does he not have a midrange game? Because he chooses not to shoot from there?

Wade was a mediocre midrange shooter in 07 and 08. LeBron was a terrible midrange shooter before 09.

[SCourGe OF GoD]

That Toronto pick will be around 7th or so ..

[C-izMe]

I'm on hoopdata just like you. I love how you open up by saying IDK what site your using and then post how he's still waaaaaaay better than Harden.

Yes thats more than Harden but if you expect Martin to produce numbers from the mid range then....... you will be disappointed/

He is strictly a 3 point bomber and a FT line stalker.

You just posted the numbers proving he isn't. HARDEN is exactly what you just described so thank you for disproving your own point already.

[Sedale Threatt]

ESPN reporting that OKC's best offer was $55.5 million. So Harden basically bailed out on a potential dynasty for $4.5 million. Hope he spends that money more wisely than Antoine Walker did.

[The Hypnotoad]

I'm shocked by this trade. Thought i'd give my two cents.

I think this trade hurts OKC in the short term. And this was a team on the cusp of a championship. The reason to fear OKC was their trio were straight PUNISHING as a penetrating unit. Yes, Durant would go insane from the 3 point line some games, but it was also Westbrook and Harden going to the basket possession after possession that would straight bring teams to their knees.

Kevin Martin is not a penetrating player. He's a 3 point shooter, thats all. He's James Jones with a higher pedigree. He won't draw any fouls which Harden was great at doing. As for Lamb, the jury is out, and i'm sure he could be a good player, but thats not gonna happen in any meaningful way until at least his third year.

I think OKC's FUTURE is great, with Lamb and Perry Jones III as their "youth" movement second team. But i don't see them beating the Lakers with this lineup.