James Harden traded to the Rockets

franktony · Post #941 » by **franktony** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:47 am

Sasaki wrote:About the only thing I'm confused by is that why didn't OKC ask for one of the PFs? Houston has lots of them and OKC's big rotation outside Perkins/Ibaka looks pretty weak now.

Collison is very solid and the rotation of Ibaka/Perkins/Collison is the only that plays in the playoffs anyway. I don't think they need another PF prospect. They just got Perry Jones III in the draft.

JustOneFix · Post #942 » by **JustOneFix** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:54 am

That's some cold blooded s*** right there.

"Alright, we offer you this"
"No. I want more"
"Ok, you're traded"

Not sure who got the best of it, but if Raptors pick is included, OKC is a clear winner, cause that's lotto pick. Raptors are a lotto team, they always will be.

TwentyOne920 · Post #943 » by **TwentyOne920** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:00 pm

franktony wrote:
Sasaki wrote:About the only thing I'm confused by is that why didn't OKC ask for one of the PFs? Houston has lots of them and OKC's big rotation outside Perkins/Ibaka looks pretty weak now.

Collison is very solid and the rotation of Ibaka/Perkins/Collison is the only that plays in the playoffs anyway. I don't think they need another PF prospect. They just got Perry Jones III in the draft.

I think long term they want to see a situation where Durant, Jones, and Ibaka are the close-out frontcourt. Perkins has a big fat contract and has no use apart from, well, attempting to stop post players. If you're relying on him to be a defensive anchor you have to look for better long-term options.

red_n_black95 · Post #944 » by **red_n_black95** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:01 pm

H-town wrote:i like the deal, now trade for Paul Millsap

It's time to update your sig(which is hilarious).

9abovetherim · Post #945 » by **9abovetherim** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:17 pm

I predict he will average at least 20ppg

TwentyOne920 · Post #946 » by **TwentyOne920** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:17 pm

H-Town's sig just reminded me that Morey must have been after Harden all along. :lol:

Scraptor · Post #947 » by **Scraptor** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:21 pm

Although I think Harden is a very good player, and still has room to improve, I thought this data might clarify just how much time Harden spent with another superstar on the floor.

I was able to quickly punch in data for about 1800 of Harden's 1942 minutes last year. Of those 1800 minutes:
63% were played with both Westbrook and Durant.
12% were played with Durant (but not Westbrook).
3% were played with Westbrook (but not Durant).
22% were played with neither Westbrook nor Durant.

So 78% of the time he had at least one other superstar to share the floor with. And that 22% of the time he wasn't with them? He was likely playing with the second unit against the other team's second unit.

He's certainly a talent, but this season is going to be a real test of whether Morey's advanced metrics have fully taken into account the effects of Harden's teammates, or whether the models are garbage in/garbage out.

Debaser · Post #948 » by **Debaser** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:46 pm

I think the Lakers are reasonable for this trade. If Dwight wasn't on their team now, OKC could've used the amnesty on Perkins and gave Harden the contract he wanted. But now they need Perkins if they want to beat the Lakers.

OKC is the defending WC Champs and Harden was at least their third best player. Martin can replace the scoring but not the efficiency and most importantly he can't facilitate the offense like Harden which is important since Westbrook is a score first PG.

I saw a few Rockets game and Lamb looks lost out there. He got chewed out a few times because of his defense and didn't do much on offense besides standing at the corner three. I thought both he and White should spend some time in the D-League this year. He has the tool to become a solid player, but it will probably take a couple of years.

Solid trade for the Rockets since the last thing they needed were more draft picks. It's a good haul for the Thunder but they are a weaker team today than they were yesterday.

Post #949 » by **UGA Hayes** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:48 pm

Damn Housto's backcoutyn is going to be shooting a lot of FT this year. One of the more fascinating trades in a while and a great way to kick off the season.

H-town · Post #950 » by **H-town** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:49 pm

TwentyOne920 wrote:H-Town's sig just reminded me that Morey must have been after Harden all along.

update sig

who is next Gerald Henderson or Griffin ? :lol:

TwentyOne920 · Post #951 » by **TwentyOne920** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:50 pm

UGA Hayes wrote:Damn Housto's backcoutyn is going to be shooting a lot of FT this year. One of the more fascinating trades in a while and a great way to kick off the season.

One way to score points when your shot isn't falling is to get to the line.

Houston looks like a League Pass team now.

Post #952 » by **tsherkin** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:50 pm

624 wrote:What? Lamb is an excellent shooter, including from 3, off the dribble and spot-ups. He turned 20 in May.

Got the age wrong, not the shooting. At least during his year in college. It's to be expected though, he isolated a lot, and unassisted jumpers are noticeably less efficient than those with assist support, so his raw percentages are probably not indicative of what he might do in a better team setting. He certainly didn't have a great team context at UConn. Meantime, my comment about his age was just to establish lack of physical development; he's young, he's skinny and he's going to have some trouble physically as a rook, which is hardly unusual.

The shot, though... he looked a little better off of the ball last year, but he was hardly elite in that respect, particularly considering that he wasn't firing from NBA 3pt range. His step-back is really nice, I'll give you that, but yeah, I'm not really thrilled with him as a scoring threat right from the word "go," not just yet. We'll see. He feels a little like a sane, settled Jamal Crawford to me. More athletic, wicked wingspan, very young and malleable (which will probably go over well where he's ending up), but he's not really shown truly elite shooting yet. If you look at guys like Stephen Curry, Steve Nash, Ray Allen, etc, they evidenced superior shooting in college compared to Lamb. He'll be good, of that I think there is no doubt, but you shouldn't toss around the word "elite" in reference to his shooting ability so casually. He'll contribute, for sure, and he's got potential, but I think he's got potential in other areas. The best thing will be if he can milk the PnR in OKC at even a third of the level that Harden did.

NYKBaller · Post #953 » by **NYKBaller** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:53 pm

tyreke evans is next, OBVIOUSLY looking at H-town's sig

Post #954 » by **UGA Hayes** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:55 pm

Also getting Cole Aldrich could end up being an underrated move, His D-league numbers have been really good and he wasn't too bad last year in the league. Defensively Houston could be really good at the 5. Plus after watching Houston in the preseason it was hard not to come away thinking they needed more offense and this really addresses that need. Finally sort of surprising that the deal didn't involve any of Houstons PFs

TwentyOne920 · Post #955 » by **TwentyOne920** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:57 pm

Cole Aldrich is a guy advanced stats fans love. The puzzling thing is his lack of PT, really.

Tave · Post #956 » by **Tave** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:01 pm

This is a head scratcher for sure. OKC won't resign Martin, and Lamb and the picks might never pan out. It's a worthless trade and Harden puts them in contention now. Just wait out the year and give yourself another shot at the Finals and let him walk if you don't want to pay him.

Post #957 » by **Next Coming** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:04 pm

They'll miss his playmaking more than his scoring off the bench. Probably forces Brooks to play Maynor and Westbrook together more often. Good trade for both sides.

Heat/Lakers Finals looking more likely now.

GP2 · Post #958 » by **GP2** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:08 pm

He declined 6 mil under the max. That's 6 mil over 4 years to go from OKC to Houston. I don't get it.

bringinhinkie · Post #959 » by **bringinhinkie** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:16 pm

-6th in the ENTIRE nba in winshares
-2nd in the ENTIRE nba in true shooting % (66%) and EFG% (58%)
-3rd in the ENTIRE nba in offensive rating (125)
-8th in freethrows made
-great production on low usage percentage (21%).. Durant and Westbrook were > 31%
-http://www.82games.com/1112/1112OKC.HTM
-23yo

obviously the shooting numbers are inflated due to being on the court with 2 studs, but off the charts nonetheless..

very curious to see what he can do as a first option/higher usage %.. he already gets to the line a ton as a third option while playing with 2 true first options

should have just paid the man or at least dealt ibaka instead

Wooderson · Post #960 » by **Wooderson** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:24 pm

Scraptor wrote:Although I think Harden is a very good player, and still has room to improve, I thought this data might clarify just how much time Harden spent with another superstar on the floor.

I was able to quickly punch in data for about 1800 of Harden's 1942 minutes last year. Of those 1800 minutes:
63% were played with both Westbrook and Durant.
12% were played with Durant (but not Westbrook).
3% were played with Westbrook (but not Durant).
22% were played with neither Westbrook nor Durant.

So 78% of the time he had at least one other superstar to share the floor with. And that 22% of the time he wasn't with them? He was likely playing with the second unit against the other team's second unit.

He's certainly a talent, but this season is going to be a real test of whether Morey's advanced metrics have fully taken into account the effects of Harden's teammates, or whether the models are garbage in/garbage out.

Take a look at WB/Durant's #s with Harden on the bench. He clearly had a positive impact on their games imo. Lin's performance, moreso than Harden, will determine how well this Rockets team can play.