James Harden traded to the Rockets

inquisitive · Post #1001 » by **inquisitive** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:55 pm

John Schumann on twitter:

Total minutes played last season with neither of the other 2 on the floor – Durant: 38, Westbrook: 13, Harden: 464.

LakerFanMan · Post #1002 » by **LakerFanMan** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:58 pm

UGA Hayes wrote:I think Slick makes a good point. One wonders if OKC might have been better off with a haul of more established players instead of draft picks.

I would agree with it. The Thunder are ready to compete now. I don't know why they want to waste 3+ years of Durant/Westbrook prime. They would have been better off getting a bunch of solid role players or even adding a draft pick and getting a big star. Of course that's always assuming that was actually an option for them. Who knows what moves were available at the time.

TheToothFairy · Post #1003 » by **TheToothFairy** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:07 pm

Krodis wrote:
TheToothFairy wrote:
UGA Hayes wrote:I think Slick makes a good point. One wonders if OKC might have been better off with a haul of more established players instead of draft picks.

Established players means more payroll

They were willing to go up to $12mil + a year for Harden, I'm sure a decent player in the $8-$10 mil range would have been doable.

I am sure Presti knows what he is doing and got the best deal he could

Jadoogar · Post #1004 » by **Jadoogar** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:08 pm

VC-INJURY wrote:Have people forgotten that James Harden was absolute trash in last years playoffs? OKC is the ONLY team in recent memory to handle this type of situation properly (star player not committing to a contract extension). They said "Okay" and shipped him out for what they thought was the best deal possible.

He had one bad series (the finals). The rest of the playoffs he was great.
Against Dallas - 18.3 pts, 5.5 rbs, 4.3 asts, 50% fg, 87% ft
Against LA - 16 pts, 4.6 rbs, 2.2 ast, 36% fg, 93% ft
Against SAS - 18.5 pts, 5.5 rbs, 3.7 ast, 49% fg, 81% ft

Its not fair to judge a player based on one series. Lebron James had a bad finals series once too.

Krodis · Post #1005 » by **Krodis** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:08 pm

TheToothFairy wrote:
Krodis wrote:
TheToothFairy wrote:

Established players means more payroll

They were willing to go up to $12mil + a year for Harden, I'm sure a decent player in the $8-$10 mil range would have been doable.

I am sure Presti knows what he is doing and got the best deal he could

I am really not sure Presti knows what he's doing at this point.

Post #1006 » by **slick_watts** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:11 pm

TheToothFairy wrote:I am sure Presti knows what he is doing and got the best deal he could

GM's are not infallible, even the best ones, and everyone on this Earth is susceptible to their ego. I think egos got in the way here. Harden's ego, because I believe he felt he was already sacrificing by remaining on the bench and forgoing the 'stats' to be considered a legitimate star player. Reading Woj's article it's tough to come away without the conclusion that Presti traded Harden because he didn't make the sacrificing that he wanted him to make. It'd hard to believe that the Thunder let Harden go over such a relatively small gap in money, otherwise.

Like I've said, though, Sam Presti always acts early and decisively, for better or worse. He extended Kendrick Perkins before he played a game, swallowed up our cap space on a Nick Collison extension two months before the trade deadline, extended Ibaka before the Harden thing was taken care of. He definitely traded Harden before it was necessary, and I don't think it was all due to 'basketball reasons'.

TheToothFairy · Post #1007 » by **TheToothFairy** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:12 pm

Getting a 20ppg scorer

A young athletic skilled prospect that also plays the same position

2first rders

A high 2nd pick

Sounds like he knows exactly what he is doing

inquisitive · Post #1008 » by **inquisitive** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:14 pm

slick_watts wrote:
TheToothFairy wrote:I am sure Presti knows what he is doing and got the best deal he could

GM's are not infallible, even the best ones, and everyone on this Earth is susceptible to their ego. I think egos got in the way here. Harden's ego, because I believe he felt he was already sacrificing by remaining on the bench and forgoing the 'stats' to be considered a legitimate star player. Reading Woj's article it's tough to come away without the conclusion that Presti traded Harden because he didn't make the sacrificing that he wanted him to make. It'd hard to believe that the Thunder let Harden go over such a relatively small gap in money, otherwise.

Like I've said, though, Sam Presti always acts early and decisively, for better or worse. He extended Kendrick Perkins before he played a game, swallowed up our cap space on a Nick Collison extension two months before the trade deadline, extended Ibaka before the Harden thing was taken care of. He definitely traded Harden before it was necessary, and I don't think it was all due to 'basketball reasons'.

I was thinking the same here...very very few players will come off the bench especially with the caliber of Harden...a few million shouldn't have mattered...he just wanted to be a starter and now he has that chance.

Krodis · Post #1009 » by **Krodis** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:14 pm

Getting an injury prone one dimensional player who is a horrible defender and probably won't be around in a year.

A late lottery rookie.

2 first rounders of questionable value that may pay off down the road, except the team wants to win now

A high 2nd round pick.

Sounds like he traded away the third best player on a Finals team for prospects that may work out 4 years from now, and if they do, they might be 70% the player Harden is.

Post #1010 » by **slick_watts** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:15 pm

TheToothFairy wrote:Getting a 20ppg scorer

A young athletic skilled prospect that also plays the same position

2first rders

A high 2nd pick

Sounds like he knows exactly what he is doing

Kevin Martin's at a weird position where extending him is difficult - going to be 30, injury prone, and he could have a nice season playing next to two better players. Does OKC want to pay that guy?

I hate picks in the 11-13 range. I think that's a bad area to draft in, especially the last 10 seasons. You know who the best player is drafted in that range since 2002? Might be Thaddeus Young. Low lotto picks don't knock my socks off. I like Jeremy Lamb a bit but he'd be a nice pick at 12 if he ended up 3/4 the player Harden has been.

BaunceyChillups · Post #1011 » by **BaunceyChillups** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Glen Davis will probably be a 20 ppg scorer this year too

kodo · Post #1012 » by **kodo** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:17 pm

jnzook wrote:I feel like they could have gotten a better deal than this. Idk. Good move for rockets tho

This is a better deal than what ORL got for Dwight Howard (Afflalo, Vucevic, Harrington, crap picks).
OKC isn't going to get amazing offers for Harden because they don't have a long term contract with him. I also think a James Harden at $15M/yr is considerably less enticing to GMs than Harden at at $5M/yr.

As someone who watched his team let a 21 ppg 46%FG/41%3P shooter walk away after his rookie contract for absolutely nothing, I think Presti did a typically great job of getting assets back.

People aren't sure if Lamb and those draft picks help a contender like OKC; this is Sam Presti. I wouldn't be surprised if all those assets are sent back out again before Harden's locker room is cleaned out.

Post #1013 » by **UGA Hayes** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Well I'm excited to see how Harden does. He is one of the proverbial analytics guys that people always argue about how they would do with more minutes (along with Asik), and now we will get a chance to put it to the test.

Debaser · Post #1014 » by **Debaser** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:18 pm

Just thinking out loud but for Harden would

-GS give up Thompson?
-Bobcats give up Kidd-Gilchrist and Biyombo?
-Cavs give up Waiters and Thompson?
-Denver give up Faried?
-Detroit give up Knight and Drummond?
-Pacers give up Paul George?
-Kings give up Thornton and Robinson?
-Utah give up Kanter or Favors?

Again just thinking from the top of my head; not saying any of this would or should happen.

Krodis · Post #1015 » by **Krodis** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:19 pm

Between the nature and timing of this deal, and the fact that we went through cuts before the deal happened to free up roster space (that wouldn't have been needed if we were staying put after this deal), there HAS to be a second trade coming, right? Right?

Post #1016 » by **slick_watts** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:19 pm

UGA Hayes wrote:Well I'm excited to see how Harden does. He is one of the proverbial analytics guys that people always argue about how they would do with more minutes (along with Asik), and now we will get a chance to put it to the test.

I'll be following the Rockets closely. Harden was my guy on the Thunder. Gonna miss him.

LakerFanMan · Post #1017 » by **LakerFanMan** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:19 pm

Harden should be great for the Rockets, more scoring and a slight drop in fg%. I can see him putting up like 22ppg on 45% or something along those lines. He's the Rockets main scoring option at this point.

TONY_YAYO · Post #1018 » by **TONY_YAYO** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:22 pm

OKC got more for Harden than Magic got for Dwight SMH

Krodis · Post #1019 » by **Krodis** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:23 pm

The only thing at all I like about the deal is I get to see Harden do his thing as a first option. But I don't like it for the Thunder at all unless there's some sort of big second trade coming.

Post #1020 » by **dockingsched** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:25 pm

TONY_YAYO wrote:OKC got more for Harden than Magic got for Dwight SMH

even if thats the case, it shouldn't surprise anyone. harden is a young, healthy, premiere shooting guard in the league who as long as u want to pay him, will be locked up for yrs. howard was a one yr rental who was open about not wanting to stay anywhere but his hand picked destinations.