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NcGinn's rating of Jags game

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NcGinn's rating of Jags game 

Post#1 » by xTitan » Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:06 pm

I just thought McGinn's take on the O-line and and RB position would be a good read....

OFFENSIVE LINE (1½)

NT Terrance Knighton and Tyson Alualu dominated the run inside. T.J. Lang's punch and power has been diminished because of a damaged right elbow that forces him to play with a brace. It's a huge factor why the run game went nowhere. On the outside, Marshall Newhouse seems satisfied with stalemates blocking for the run. There is little semblance of finish or sustain in his game. He just doesn't give the extra effort. Jeff Saturday battled. He tries to cover up bigger men but doesn't get much movement and was brushed aside by Knighton at times. His glaring lack of speed also shows up in the screen game. Bryan Bulaga got pushed back by Alualu on a failed third-and-1 and, when the Packers were trying to run out the clock, was shoved 4 yards deep by DE George Selvie and the carry was for no gain. The most physical blockers were Josh Sitton and Evan Dietrich-Smith, who played two snaps in the backfield and two at TE. Sitton was most able to match the high-intensity level of the Jacksonville D-line. He tried to punish people. His only bad play was the sack by DE Jeremy Mincey on a spin move. Dietrich-Smith caved in Selvie on a successful third-and-1 and came across to trap NT C.J. Mosley on an 8-yard burst. Given Dietrich-Smith's youth and robust nature, it would be surprising if the coaches weren't at least talking about giving him at least some of Saturday's snaps. Newhouse was partially responsible for the other sack by being bulled back by DE John Chick, a hard-charging free agent. He allowed a team-high four pressures.


RUNNING BACKS (1½)

There continue to be positives in the fledgling career of Alex Green. His effort and technique in pass protection generally are excellent. Regarded by some scouts as a fumbler out of Hawaii, he has shown no signs of that in 2012. And he doesn't hesitate in the least pounding into heavy-contact areas inside. At the same time, Green hasn't been able to make himself skinny, change a course, avoid a pile and bleed a 2-yard run into a gain of 6 or 7. More natural and experienced runners do that all the time, making their coaches and linemen all look better. McCarthy finally decided enough was enough, having gone five games in a row without handing the ball off on third and 1. Green converted two of three. He burst for 6 on the first, but with only S Dawan Landry standing between him and a long gain he was cut right down. Partially because Green was too impatient on slower developing runs the past two weeks, the Packers ran him more straight ahead Sunday. Let's face it. There wasn't much there. But Green also didn't help himself by slipping and tripping a few times. Look for James Starks to get a legitimate shot this week. It was hard to tell anything about him in seven snaps.


Not a huge fan of EDS, but I believe Saturday is completely awful and would like to see that change made at center. Green has done nothing to distinguish himself by any means, but this offensive line is really bad and no aging RB is going to change that.
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Re: NcGinn's rating of Jags game 

Post#2 » by Newz » Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:07 pm

Yeah... the left side of our line is the poops.
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Re: NcGinn's rating of Jags game 

Post#3 » by SpursNBucks » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:04 pm

xTitan wrote:Not a huge fan of EDS, but I believe Saturday is completely awful and would like to see that change made at center. Green has done nothing to distinguish himself by any means, but this offensive line is really bad and no aging RB is going to change that.


No one can argue this O-Line is not a good overall unit. Clearly need upgrades at LT and C, but that isn't going to happen right now.

Benson made a difference with this O-line, and I think Steven Jackson is a clear improvement over him. So if the price is right and you can possibly attain a compensatory pick in the same range if he leaves = why not? RBs can come right in without much time in a team's system and have an impact. Had TT pulled the trigger on Lynch that year we wouldn't be having this discussion now- They also probably wouldn't have Green on the roster.
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Re: NcGinn's rating of Jags game 

Post#4 » by Newz » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:09 pm

SpursNBucks wrote:
xTitan wrote:Not a huge fan of EDS, but I believe Saturday is completely awful and would like to see that change made at center. Green has done nothing to distinguish himself by any means, but this offensive line is really bad and no aging RB is going to change that.


No one can argue this O-Line is not a good overall unit. Clearly need upgrades at LT and C, but that isn't going to happen right now.

Benson made a difference with this O-line, and I think Steven Jackson is a clear improvement over him. So if the price is right and you can possibly attain a compensatory pick in the same range if he leaves = why not? RBs can come right in without much time in a team's system and have an impact. Had TT pulled the trigger on Lynch that year we wouldn't be having this discussion now- They also probably wouldn't have Green on the roster.


My guess is most people would say that the Lynch trade was a bust because he'd be averaging 3.5-3.8 YPC like he was behind that poop offensive line in Buffalo.
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Re: NcGinn's rating of Jags game 

Post#5 » by LUKE23 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:25 pm

No one can argue this O-Line is not a good overall unit. Clearly need upgrades at LT and C, but that isn't going to happen right now.


I can. I think 3 of the 5 guys (Newhouse, Lang, Saturday) aren't starters on at least half the OL's in the NFL.

This line isn't very good. I'd rank it about average (maybe slightly below) in pass protection and probably bottom 5 in run blocking.

Saturday is a bigger step down from Wells than I thought, and Lang and Newhouse are just guys.
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Re: NcGinn's rating of Jags game 

Post#6 » by askdavescat » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:27 pm

Newz wrote:
SpursNBucks wrote:
xTitan wrote:Not a huge fan of EDS, but I believe Saturday is completely awful and would like to see that change made at center. Green has done nothing to distinguish himself by any means, but this offensive line is really bad and no aging RB is going to change that.


No one can argue this O-Line is not a good overall unit. Clearly need upgrades at LT and C, but that isn't going to happen right now.

Benson made a difference with this O-line, and I think Steven Jackson is a clear improvement over him. So if the price is right and you can possibly attain a compensatory pick in the same range if he leaves = why not? RBs can come right in without much time in a team's system and have an impact. Had TT pulled the trigger on Lynch that year we wouldn't be having this discussion now- They also probably wouldn't have Green on the roster.


My guess is most people would say that the Lynch trade was a bust because he'd be averaging 3.5-3.8 YPC like he was behind that poop offensive line in Buffalo.


Agreed.

This is seven years and counting where GB's running game has ( with the exception of a couple of short stretches ) been very sub-standard. I think TT / MM need to start looking at this the way they viewed the defense's collapse five years ago, when they started over with Caper's 3-4 defense. I think they need to abandon the ZBS, and get a new OL coach after this season is over.
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Re: NcGinn's rating of Jags game 

Post#7 » by Newz » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:28 pm

Yup.

Sitton is a stud and Bulaga is very good at RT. We need to hope that next year Sherrod is healthy and is at least a serviceable starter. We need Lang to continue to be a solid player at LG and we need to find a legit starter at C in the draft or free agency.

Newhouse is an ideal back-up lineman and Saturday is just old. Lang I think is a serviceable starter when he is healthy... but he is banged up and it is making him play like the poops.
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Re: NcGinn's rating of Jags game 

Post#8 » by Newz » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:42 pm

askdavescat wrote:I think TT / MM need to start looking at this the way they viewed the defense's collapse five years ago, when they started over with Caper's 3-4 defense. I think they need to abandon the ZBS, and get a new OL coach after this season is over.


I definitely wouldn't mind this.
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Re: NcGinn's rating of Jags game 

Post#9 » by SpursNBucks » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:51 pm

Newz wrote:
SpursNBucks wrote:
xTitan wrote:Not a huge fan of EDS, but I believe Saturday is completely awful and would like to see that change made at center. Green has done nothing to distinguish himself by any means, but this offensive line is really bad and no aging RB is going to change that.


No one can argue this O-Line is not a good overall unit. Clearly need upgrades at LT and C, but that isn't going to happen right now.

Benson made a difference with this O-line, and I think Steven Jackson is a clear improvement over him. So if the price is right and you can possibly attain a compensatory pick in the same range if he leaves = why not? RBs can come right in without much time in a team's system and have an impact. Had TT pulled the trigger on Lynch that year we wouldn't be having this discussion now- They also probably wouldn't have Green on the roster.


My guess is most people would say that the Lynch trade was a bust because he'd be averaging 3.5-3.8 YPC like he was behind that poop offensive line in Buffalo.


Well he was actually averaging 4.4/carry on that "poop" line before he went to SEA where he went down to 3.5/carry. He since has averaged 4.2/ and 4.8/ because the S-Hawks have opened it up a little more on offense. It's not always about having great O-Lines- you also have to take into account what other offense you have around you. That is where the Packers have a strength they have so many weapons teams just can't sit in the box and guard for the run- the pass actually opens up the run in GB. If you have a fairly decent RB he should put up good #'s in GB simply because he is not the focus of the defense.
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Re: NcGinn's rating of Jags game 

Post#10 » by SpursNBucks » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:02 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
No one can argue this O-Line is not a good overall unit. Clearly need upgrades at LT and C, but that isn't going to happen right now.


I can. I think 3 of the 5 guys (Newhouse, Lang, Saturday) aren't starters on at least half the OL's in the NFL.

This line isn't very good. I'd rank it about average (maybe slightly below) in pass protection and probably bottom 5 in run blocking.

Saturday is a bigger step down from Wells than I thought, and Lang and Newhouse are just guys.


We agree 100% on Saturday and Newhouse- Not only aren't they not starters, they probably wouldn't even make 1/2 the team's rosters, and Newhouse has actually improved a little since last year.

Lang has been playing a little hurt. That said I couldn't believe that contract TT signed him for- TT has made a few mistakes resigning his own - Chillar, Hawk, and Lang. This version of Woodson is WAY over-paid. They def need to trim some fat in the off-season Hawk, (ask Woodson to take a cut), and then extend AR, Clay, and Raji. I don't see any other super stars who I would give the big bucks to- I would consider moving Jennings for a pick or two. I think you could possibly get a 1st and a 4th- I think he would have gotten more, but his recent injuries are going to bother teams.
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Re: NcGinn's rating of Jags game 

Post#11 » by Run-MKE 311 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:02 pm

Thoughtful article, per usual from McGinn.

Our line sucks right now and I believe it is time to give Starks a shot. I am not taking these trade talks to seriously and would like to see what James still has.

Alex Green has not performed well enough to merit the shot against the Cards. As long as our line is this bad, Starks can pound and get physical for yards that Green simply cannot.
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Re: NcGinn's rating of Jags game 

Post#12 » by askdavescat » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:22 pm

[quote="SpursNBucks
Well he was actually averaging 4.4/carry on that "poop" line before he went to SEA where he went down to 3.5/carry. He since has averaged 4.2/ and 4.8/ because the S-Hawks have opened it up a little more on offense. It's not always about having great O-Lines- you also have to take into account what other offense you have around you. That is where the Packers have a strength they have so many weapons teams just can't sit in the box and guard for the run- the pass actually opens up the run in GB. If you have a fairly decent RB he should put up good #'s in GB simply because he is not the focus of the defense.[/quote]

This speaks to how poorly GB's OL really is performing. For the most part, defenses have been dropping seven ( and sometimes eight ) into pass coverage on virtually every play. Still, on many of GB's runs, the defense is getting penetration and hitting GB's running back in the backfield, or at least making the RB have to juke a defender. There's no @#%^& reason five O-linemen ( six if they're keeping a TE in as a blocker ) shouldn't be able to drive 4 defensive linemen back off the line of scrimmage.

I'm not saying Alex Green or Starks are anything special, but when a running back has to be dodging defenders the moment he receives the ball, unless he's Barry Sanders, they're not going to have much success.
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Re: NcGinn's rating of Jags game 

Post#13 » by El Duderino » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:26 pm

Newz wrote:Yup.

Sitton is a stud and Bulaga is very good at RT. We need to hope that next year Sherrod is healthy and is at least a serviceable starter. We need Lang to continue to be a solid player at LG and we need to find a legit starter at C in the draft or free agency.

Newhouse is an ideal back-up lineman and Saturday is just old. Lang I think is a serviceable starter when he is healthy... but he is banged up and it is making him play like the poops.


Sitton hasn't played like a stud guard since the Super Bowl season.
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Re: NcGinn's rating of Jags game 

Post#14 » by trwi7 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:29 pm

I wouldn't call Bulaga a very good RT either.
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Re: NcGinn's rating of Jags game 

Post#15 » by packrback » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:44 pm

We have gone through so many different O-Lineman that haven't seemed to work out. You almost have to think that it is the system more than the players itself that is dissapointing.
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