The OFFICIAL Rookie impressions thread

[SaiCLE]

Ehh, my position hasn't changed on Waiters and Beal. I still think Waiters is a reach and Beal will be a very good player if short of star status.

Remember, Kyrie Irving got shut down by Jose Calderon last year on opening night.

Smh, some of you people on here have no shame. Stop being so bias

I have a hard time actually agreeing that Calderon could actually shut down Kyrie, but the fact remains that Kyrie had his 2 worst games of the year (by far) against Toronto.

"Ehh, my position hasn't changed on Waiters and Beal. I still think Waiters is a reach and Beal will be a very good player if short of star status."
I was responding to this part of his comment, Due to the fact that comment seemed rather ignorant to me.

Other than that I'm not at all phased by that kyrie/jose comment, It was completely not needed even though i get what he is saying.

[Hendrix]

I'm not sure why someone would be bias becuase they wern't willing to change their opionion's of 2 players after 1 game, lol. It's 1 game. There's plenty of time for the rookies to change people's opinons. I'de much rather someone not flip flop on their opinions every game someone puts up 8 or 17 points.

[SaiCLE]

Sad that people have to put in a mostly inaccurate "but....." instead of just just giving Dion props, while in the same post making excuses for Beal.

Beals problem is that he's "passive"? Ok so how can he be more aggressive? he's not a guy that can do things with the ball like Waiters, or rise up over people and nail jumpers in their face.

I just can't help but notice..., If Dion was outplayed yesterday and Beal out shined him there would have been a bash fest.

People are calling him inefficient, fat, bust and everything else in the book, even when he plays great. "Sh*t on these haters, ball hard D Waiters"~Meek Mill

[SaiCLE]

I'm not sure why someone would be bias becuase they wern't willing to change their opionion's of 2 players after 1 game, lol. It's 1 game. There's plenty of time for the rookies to change people's opinons. I'de much rather someone not flip flop on their opinions every game.

Bro I wasn't in no way, shape or form trying to suggest that.

[Hendrix]

I'm not sure what your issue with his comment is then. He's a Raptors fan, so I doubt he has any real bias towards either Beal or Dion.

[GhostsOfGil]

Beals problem is that he's "passive"? Ok so how can he be more aggressive? he's not a guy that can do things with the ball like Waiters, or rise up over people and nail jumpers in their face.

Yes he is. He was very agressive during the preseason and had a ton of success going to the line. Is he the isolation player Waiters is? No but he's plenty capable of creating offense. However he never demands the ball or really asserts himself as a focal point of the offense.

That said, I thought Waiters clearly outplay Beal last night, although neither was impressive IMO.

[HurricaneKid]

I watched the Cavs game in chunks. So I admit I missed plenty. But I thought Waiters looked like an inefficient chucker. He took some HORRIBLE shots. At least he was comfortable out on the floor; I don't even think you can say that about Beal. Color me unimpressed on both.

Didn't he shoot like 43%?

With a 1 game sample I'm more concerned about the shot selection than if they went in or not. 43% isn't great and a few bad shots fell. I think if he had the same shots again next game EV would be ~5/14 which isn't good. I do remember him making some tough shots in college but the quality of his shots has to improve if he is going to be a net positive on the offensive side of the ball. Defensively who knows. The Wiz barely have NBA quality players in their back court in Wall's absence.

[GhostsOfGil]

I just can't help but notice..., If Dion was outplayed yesterday and Beal out shined him there would have been a bash fest.

People are calling him inefficient, fat, bust and everything else in the book, even when he plays great. "Sh*t on these haters, ball hard D Waiters"~Meek Mill

I think Waiters gets a lot of heat because he was considered a reach at 4. When he showed up to training camp slightly over weight he was an easy target for lazy criticisms. But dont get carried away, he WAS inefficient both during SL and preseason. And although Beal had a bad season opener, Waiters was far from great as you put it. In 28 minutes he took 14 shots to get 17 points, had his shot blocked twice and committed 3 turnovers with 0 assists. No doubt a SOLID debut game but short of great.

[SaiCLE]

I just can't help but notice..., If Dion was outplayed yesterday and Beal out shined him there would have been a bash fest.

People are calling him inefficient, fat, bust and everything else in the book, even when he plays great. "Sh*t on these haters, ball hard D Waiters"~Meek Mill

I think Waiters gets a lot of heat because he was considered a reach at 4. When he showed up to training camp slightly over weight he was an easy target for lazy assumptions. But dont get carried away, he WAS inefficient both during SL and preseason. And although Beal had a bad season opener, Waiters was far from great as you put it. In 28 minutes he took 14 shots to get 17 points, had his shot blocked twice and committed 3 turnovers with 0 assists. No doubt a SOLID debut game but short of great.

Two of his turnovers came from jump ball situations, Don't believe me watch the game. He would have 4 assists if some of the players he passed to actually made their shots, He got blocked so what? He attacked the rim like crazy that game and missed a few easy bunnies that should have been fouls, No problem he's a rookie he'll get better....what else?

[GhostsOfGil]

Two of his turnovers came from jump ball situations, Don't believe me watch the game. He would have 4 assists if some of the players he passed to actually made their shots, He got blocked so what? He attacked the rim like crazy that game and missed a few easy bunnies that should have been fouls, No problem he's a rookie he'll get better....what else?

They were turnovers because 1, he allowed a jump ball and 2 he lost it. Are you saying a jump ball situation isn't a legit turnover because if you are, you are wrong.

Also your assist argument is hilarious.. I watched the game. Waiters made some ok passes but for the most part he was looking for his shot first. He finished with 0 assists wether you make excuses for him or not.

Agreed about his aggressiveness. He was very good at burning Beal on PnR situations and was very successful at getting to the rim.

Lastly no where did I deny his potential as a rookie. But like I said earlier, he had a solid debut, but it was far from a great game.

[The Moose]

Andre Drummond will be the ROY

[mrmsix6]

Two of the turnovers were jump balls - one after grabbing a rebound over several guys and going to the ground and one with like 5 seconds left at the end of the game (when it was clearly out of reach) when the Wizards inexplicably trapped him as he crossed half court.

So no, what were technically 3 turnovers isn't really much of a knock considering how they happened.

Waiters played about as well as could have reasonably been expected for his first NBA game ever.

[Left Side Drive]

Dion Waiters was solid much better than I thought he would play. Obviously he will make a ton of mistakes, but you have to look at what he can be and that's a solid second option for the Cavs behind Irving.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Two of his turnovers came from jump ball situations, Don't believe me watch the game. He would have 4 assists if some of the players he passed to actually made their shots, He got blocked so what? He attacked the rim like crazy that game and missed a few easy bunnies that should have been fouls, No problem he's a rookie he'll get better....what else?

Not to take anything away from Waiters, but I think these excuses are cop outs.

Take, for example, the assist argument. I hear this one quite often, but it is absolutely meaningless. Every single NBA player has to deal with other players missing shots. If every player made every shot they were assisted on, then most NBA players would easily average 3-4 assists a game, if not more, and PG's would be getting like 15-20. It is part of the game that players miss shots, and you cannot arbitrarily add IMAGINARY assists to a favorite player and use that number to compare against REAL assist numbers.

We can expand this same argument to your claim about missed shots and turnovers. If you subtract a couple turnovers from Waiters total, because they were silly, you cannot compare that new value against real turnover results, because all players are charged with silly turnovers from time to time. It is part of the game. All players sometimes miss a shot because of an uncalled foul, it is part of the game. To compare players, you have to judge them by the same metrics.

Particularly, I have seen similar arguments advanced among other Blazer fans. Several times they have said "Lillard would have X number of assists if his teammates shots were falling". Well again, just like with Waiters, that X value is completely meaningless, because if that metric was used for all other PG's, his actual assist total would remain unremarkable. Maybe Lillard (or Waiters) didn't find his teammates in as good as position as a player actually averaging X assists, so to compare the two is a cop out.

Now, again, I want to stress I am not trying to say Waiters had a bad game. I did not see, but to have a rookie attack the basket and find success, even with some lumps thrown in, is very promising. Those lumps are expected of rookies, and it is entirely fair to argue that certain numbers will improve. However, I do see these type of excuses pretty often, and it is intellectually dishonest.

[SaiCLE]

Two of his turnovers came from jump ball situations, Don't believe me watch the game. He would have 4 assists if some of the players he passed to actually made their shots, He got blocked so what? He attacked the rim like crazy that game and missed a few easy bunnies that should have been fouls, No problem he's a rookie he'll get better....what else?

Not to take anything away from Waiters, but I think these excuses are cop outs.

Take, for example, the assist argument. I hear this one quite often, but it is absolutely meaningless. Every single NBA player has to deal with other players missing shots. If every player made every shot they were assisted on, then most NBA players would easily average 3-4 assists a game, if not more, and PG's would be getting like 15-20. It is part of the game that players miss shots, and you cannot arbitrarily add IMAGINARY assists to a favorite player and use that number to compare against REAL assist numbers.

We can expand this same argument to your claim about missed shots and turnovers. If you subtract a couple turnovers from Waiters total, because they were silly, you cannot compare that new value against real turnover results, because all players are charged with silly turnovers from time to time. It is part of the game. All players sometimes miss a shot because of an uncalled foul, it is part of the game. To compare players, you have to judge them by the same metrics.

Particularly, I have seen similar arguments advanced among other Blazer fans. Several times they have said "Lillard would have X number of assists if his teammates shots were falling". Well again, just like with Waiters, that X value is completely meaningless, because if that metric was used for all other PG's, his actual assist total would remain unremarkable. Maybe Lillard (or Waiters) didn't find his teammates in as good as position as a player actually averaging X assists, so to compare the two is a cop out.

Now, again, I want to stress I am not trying to say Waiters had a bad game. I did not see, but to have a rookie attack the basket and find success, even with some lumps thrown in, is very promising. Those lumps are expected of rookies, and it is entirely fair to argue that certain numbers will improve. However, I do see these type of excuses pretty often, and it is intellectually dishonest.

I respect you're opinion but it's not a cop out. The only thing I'm going to do is ask you to watch that game.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Two of his turnovers came from jump ball situations, Don't believe me watch the game. He would have 4 assists if some of the players he passed to actually made their shots, He got blocked so what? He attacked the rim like crazy that game and missed a few easy bunnies that should have been fouls, No problem he's a rookie he'll get better....what else?

They were turnovers because 1, he allowed a jump ball and 2 he lost it. Are you saying a jump ball situation isn't a legit turnover because if you are, you are wrong.

Also your assist argument is hilarious.. I watched the game. Waiters made some ok passes but for the most part he was looking for his shot first. He finished with 0 assists wether you make excuses for him or not.

Agreed about his aggressiveness. He was very good at burning Beal on PnR situations and was very successful at getting to the rim.

Lastly no where did I deny his potential as a rookie. But like I said earlier, he had a solid debut, but it was far from a great game.

Yeah one of those jump ball turnovers came when the typical bushleague wizards came up and tied him up while he was running the clock out.

Anderson Varejao, and Tristian Thompson had 9 and 5 assists respectively. So was that because that are such amazing passers or was it from Waiters and Irving hockey assists under the basket?

also you can say Waiters won't shot like that again, but if you know anything what smaller rookie slashers (Irving and Wall come to mind), their finishing ability dramiticaly improves as the season rolls on. So he'll make a lot more of those layups.

Waiters potential looked much greater thans Beals, thats all i'm saying.

[penquin11]

Waiters potential doesn't look better than Beal- certainly not after just one game, especially if you consider that Waiters isn't as athletic.

[JunkYardSubs]

Val already with a double double

[RipCity71252]

Seems like he's rebounding a lot of his own misses. 15 shots in 18min with 6 offensive rebounds.

Excited to watch him this year. Good fundamentals along with a motor is a great base for a young big.

[SirHuey]

Val is ROY