The size issue - We need a "Big lineup" option

[RexBoyWonder]

Very enjoyable fun game against the Nuggets, but it really emphasised an issue we've been dealing with from the start of the season, a lack of rebounding and presents around our basket.

I get the all position-less idea and it's a good one most of the time, but it won't always work. i feel we really need to devlope some kind of a "big" lineup we could throw out there at times when wer'e getting hammerd or when we want to get more physical.

Bosh is a given, since he's our best big, So lets go over our options to play next to him when we need to play "big" :


1)Sadly, our old soulation of playing UD seems to be comeing to an end. it's not only that UD still looking bad out there, the problem is that even if he get back in form (i believe he will) -and starts nailing his jumpers - he cant play Center in this leauge. he's not a real big. not anymore. he's not big or quick enough to bang down low, he doesnt protect the rim, and doesnt clog the paint. at this point in his career, unless he really, magically, turns it around - he's a backup PF and ONLY that.

2)Battier and Lewis : Battier is nice overall but not big, i like what Lewis shows offensivly so far but he's not a real big either.

3)Joel - We all know Joel is a good defensive guy and he can be used at times, but sadly his average (at best) rebounding and total lack of offense makes him a limited option.

4)This is where i get to the point im trying to make : we need to release the Jorts and give him real playing time.
Even though we didnt see that much of him - i saw enough to recognized his skillset and his motor. and i can confidently tell you that havent : Farid aint punking us like he did if Jorts is guarding him.

Jorts is Bigger then Joel, he seems to have good rebounding instincts, and he's mobile enough that with time he'll be a decent defensive player too. he just need the burn, he need to get real minutes and learn on the fly. we need to devlope him during the regular seasons so by playoffs time he'll be comfterable and could be a real rotaion guy at the times we'll need that big lineup.

offense, defense, rebounding, overall "big" presence - grades 1-10 :

Battier - 6, 7, 4, 5 = 22
Lewis - 8, 5, 5, 5 = 23
Haslem - 3, 6, 8, 6 = 23
Joel - 3, 9, 6, 8 = 26
Jorts - 7, 7, 8, 9 = 31

SPO - FREE THE JORTS !!!

[Tim_Hardawayy]

You forgot our best option (and the one that played power forward for us in the playoffs), LeBron James.

I think the real issue is LeBron's not going to bang and give 100% effort level as a 4 for 82 games in the regular season, and that's what is causing some of these issues with rebounding and protecting the rim. But he'll do it when it counts, and that is what matters.

So yeah, finding a better option for the regular season might get us a few extra wins in the long run, but ultimately its gonna be Bosh at the 5 and LeBron at the 4 when its winning time and the game matters.

[RexBoyWonder]

No doubt Tim, but like u said - we dont want LBJ getting worn down at PF unless we absolutely have to play him there. that's not the case for the next 79 games.

plus - if we get Jorts going we could have an even bigger lineup in our arsenal, just in case we'll need it :

Wade
Allen
Lebron
Bosh
Jorts

that's our biggest lineup and keeping the Lakers in mind, i want to try it out during the season.

[Ratchet_Rio]

Wade
Allen
Lebron
Bosh
Jorts

that's our biggest lineup and keeping the Lakers in mind, i want to try it out during the season.

I came in to post this very lineup, only difference is i would play Ray Allen at the "1" and utilize him the same way the Bulls did Ron Harper. At any rate, at some point I think we do need throw Harrelson in there at the 5 and slide Bosh to the 4, that way you're not sacrificing size (Battier), defense (Lewis), or offense (Joel/UD)

[caliban]

I agree Rex and I mentioned a big lineup with Jorts in the Which "5th Heatle" Makes For The Best Lineup? tread. I don't know what more to say really. It just makes sens to have it as an option and I believe Spo will test it out pretty soon.

Right now I think it's a matter of Spo wanting Haslem to get going and see what he can bring to the table this season because he's deserving of that for all that he's done for the Heat. No doubt in my mind Spo will test a bigger lineup and in the end get the most deserving "big" man minutes. Jorts makes a ton of sense to me on both sides of the court for various reasons as you stated. Harrellson just got to show in practice that he can hold on to the rope and understand that it's a process.

[xStanton27]

As long as Joel gets less and less time, im happy. He sucks.

[This IsMy House]

I dont think its really the size down low as much as it is them trapping 35 feet from the hoop and over helping which is leading to the defense scrambling around trying to catch back up to the other player.

[420]

This will be another wasted reg. season not developing a Center.

[DefenseWins]

Isn't LeBron going to play PF come playoff time?

LBJ doesn't want to play PF often right now, because it's extremely tiring. Might as well wait til the playoffs and try to work through things like this for now.

We all thought UD was done last year but he came through in select games. The thing about UD though... he has had more bad moments than good. UD at Center is so bad though. It's like the team sticks him in there hoping they can "grind" through it. He gets beat by many guards, and when his jumpshot isn't there he is literally invisible.


This seems to be going back to last year but we still won. But against a line up with REAL bigs, this will be an issue.

This team also needs to just get back on the basics of some things. LIKE DEFENSE. BOXING OUT. REBOUNDING. I really don't know what they worked on at summer camp. Their shooting? Cause the defense isn't there right now. But it will be later.

[Slot Machine]

Jorts needs minutes, I agree. Who were the inactives yesterday, Jorts and Dex? There's no reason for both Terrel and JJ to be suited up. It sucks, but the coaching staff needs to realize that if UD isn't getting it done, he needs to be replaced. Hell, I'm almost at the point where we might as well throw Dex in there with limited minutes to see if he can show anything. Trial by fire.

[diablerouge]

to me this is a non issue. when the playoffs roll around, bron grabs 10+ boards every game. okc was not able to outrebound us with all tgat size. even indiana with hibbert and dwest didnt kill us on the boards.

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[Ratchet_Rio]

You are making a big mistake if you think LeBron is gonna superman us to a championship once more, its going to take a team effort inside. "Oh, LeBron's just gonna get us 10+ boards every game" smh I hope Spo isnt thinking like some of you. Dont be spoiled by what LeBron did last year, that type of arrogance is what does Laker fans in every season

[narmerguy]

I'd also like to think that our team's strategy isn't just "We have the best player in the world, he'll make it happen." If there are ways we can be a better team, we should explore them. Nothing wrong with knowing Lebron's there, but we certainly should just stand content and not try to improve if there are real options. Plenty of games left to be played, I wouldn't worry yet as we've barely begun to see the lineup combinations that may get some burn.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

As opposed to the alternative, have faith in Dexter Pittman and Josh Harrelson to become big time players in this league? You realize that sounds far more ridiculous than "LeBron James will be playing power forward when the games count", don't you?

I don't mind giving either of those guys some minutes here and there for a different look, but I'll trust the coaching staff, the same one that put LeBron at the 4 last year and sparked a run to a championship.

Honestly, if that means less defense and intensity in the regular season and giving up a couple wins because LeBron doesn't go all out as a 4 for 82 games, I'm ok with that.

I don't see why we have to reach and scratch and claw to be traditional at the expense of our talent. That's exactly what Spo said, that his biggest regret as a coach was putting LeBron in a box that first season. And beyond that, 3 games. 3 games.

[SweetTouch]

As opposed to the alternative, have faith in Dexter Pittman and Josh Harrelson to become big time players in this league? You realize that sounds far more ridiculous than "LeBron James will be playing power forward when the games count", don't you?

I don't mind giving either of those guys some minutes here and there for a different look, but I'll trust the coaching staff, the same one that put LeBron at the 4 last year and sparked a run to a championship.

Honestly, if that means less defense and intensity in the regular season and giving up a couple wins because LeBron doesn't go all out as a 4 for 82 games, I'm ok with that.

I don't see why we have to reach and scratch and claw to be traditional at the expense of our talent. That's exactly what Spo said, that his biggest regret as a coach was putting LeBron in a box that first season. And beyond that, 3 games. 3 games.

Pretty much this

He is the KING, therefore lets let him show us once again
Btw it's funny how LBJ is almost averaging 9 rebounds in 35 MPG and I haven't even noticed because he's been chillen

Increase that to normal LBJ 42-44 MPG in important games in the playoffs you get 10+ rebounds

[diablerouge]

Guys, thats the bet we made when we started this big 3 thing. Bigs that can walk and chew gum don't go for the MLE, much less the vet min! Amir freaking Johnson is making 7 mil a year. Omer Asik just got a 40 mil deal.

[Lightning25]

I think the Heat should start to use Pittman and Anthony at Center.

Anthony doesn't average a lot of rebounds but I suspect that he is very good at boxing out his defender from getting rebounds though. Things like that don't get credit enough in the NBA or in basketball. The Heat were top 5 in rebound rate last year and Joel started most of the games. I don't think that is some coincidence.

It's too bad Miami spent most of their off-season money on more 3 point shooters. If I was Miami, I wouldn't have signed Shard because I would have simlpy given those minutes to James Jones. It's a shame how James Jones doesn't get more playing time because he could start on most teams or be lethal off the bench.

[Heat fan06]

Guys, thats the bet we made when we started this big 3 thing. Bigs that can walk and chew gum don't go for the MLE, much less the vet min! Amir freaking Johnson is making 7 mil a year. Omer Asik just got a 40 mil deal.

Yep

Would rather have the big 3.. Than size

[Mars]

You are making a big mistake if you think LeBron is gonna superman us to a championship once more, its going to take a team effort inside. "Oh, LeBron's just gonna get us 10+ boards every game" smh I hope Spo isnt thinking like some of you. Dont be spoiled by what LeBron did last year, that type of arrogance is what does Laker fans in every season

For his career LeBron's averaged 8.7 RPG during the playoffs. The past 4 seasons he's averaged 9.1 RPG during the playoffs. So it actually is pretty fair to assume he'll average in the neighborhood of 10+ RPG from here on during postseason runs; especially since he's now committed to playing most of his minutes in the power rotation.

[ricochet]

You forgot our best option (and the one that played power forward for us in the playoffs), LeBron James.

I think the real issue is LeBron's not going to bang and give 100% effort level as a 4 for 82 games in the regular season, and that's what is causing some of these issues with rebounding and protecting the rim. But he'll do it when it counts, and that is what matters.

So yeah, finding a better option for the regular season might get us a few extra wins in the long run, but ultimately its gonna be Bosh at the 5 and LeBron at the 4 when its winning time and the game matters.

ON. THE. DOT.

I'd still like having the big line-up as an option though.. I mean.. we passed on ezeli and He's turning out into a fine young big.. Someone like him would've helped us out a lot..