Our Bench is better than it was during 2009-2010 title runs.

[Slartibartfast]

Having a borderline all-star like 2009/2010 LO coming off the bench means a lot more than the relative sucktitude of Hill vs. Powell. Lamar allowed for tremendous line-up flexibility, helping the Lakers get the most out of two post-oriented big men on both ends of the court. The drop-off to Jamison's corpse is enormous.

[Kilroy]

Lamar was a borderline all-star for one season. He was inconsistent as hell for most of his time as a Laker and was prone to take playoff series off...

Jamison has the potential to be everything Lamar was for us... I think everyone is playing tentative right now because of the system, Brown's rotations, and the pressure of playing for a struggling Lakers team. When that gets sorted, Jamison will come back online...
Lamar wasn't good with pressure either... He thrived when his contributions were icing on the cake so to speak. Not when the team was counting on him.

[The Skyhook]

I don't think Jamison can give us what Lamar brought to this team during its two championship runs. Lamar had a huge impact on this team and Jamison is nowhere close to playing at that level. I don't see it happening even if Jamison becomes comfortable playing within the system.

[Kilroy]

I don't think Jamison can give us what Lamar brought to this team during its two championship runs. Lamar had a huge impact on this team and Jamison is nowhere close to playing at that level. I don't see it happening even if Jamison becomes comfortable playing within the system.

Last season, Jamison averaged 17pts/6boards/2ast and basical a block and steal a game...
At his best, playing with pau and bynum, Lamar averaged about 14pts/9boards/3ast and a block and a steal...
But with Hill on this team along with Pau and Dwight, we don't need Lamar's timely rebounds which were his most significant contribution in my mind.

So unless Jamison just hit a wall this season... He might actually be a better fit for us and do more than LO.

[Slartibartfast]

I don't think Jamison can give us what Lamar brought to this team during its two championship runs. Lamar had a huge impact on this team and Jamison is nowhere close to playing at that level. I don't see it happening even if Jamison becomes comfortable playing within the system.

Last season, Jamison averaged 17pts/6boards/2ast and basical a block and steal a game...
At his best, playing with pau and bynum, Lamar averaged about 14pts/9boards/3ast and a block and a steal...
But with Hill on this team along with Pau and Dwight, we don't need Lamar's timely rebounds which were his most significant contribution in my mind.

So unless Jamison just hit a wall this season... He might actually be a better fit for us and do more than LO.

Did you bother to take a peek behind Jamison's numbers? He shot 40% from the field (.48 TS%) and he grabbed a pathetic 6.8 boards per 36 as a power forward. He was also one of the worst defensive players in the league.

Lamar at his peak was a guy who could guard 3 positions at a high level, play excellent team D, score at decent efficiency, create for his teammates, and rebound the heck out of the ball.

[Kilroy]

Yes I did... Did you notice that even your own analysis heavily weights rebounding? Which we don't need now...

Jamison's 40% from the field is actually better to me than Lamar's 46-53 average because most of that was around the basket... Put-backs, dunks, tip-ins, and garbage time... Jamison, as a shooter, is better/more consistent than LO. And we have a much greater need for shooters now.

You're over-rating Lamar's D significantly and most of his defensive rep comes from his rebounding. Just like every player in the league though, there are certain matchups he just owned. But Lamar even at his best, would look lost on D for large stretches of games...

And we don't need Jamison to defend or rebound with 4s... He just needs to defend 3s... Which he is admittedly, probably too slow for. Really, all we need him to do is provide scoring off the bench... But he's also showing some passing touch as well which is a bonus.

And add to that the obvious fact... Lamar Odom is a head case and looks just about done.

[LAKESHOW]

Folks, its not the bench. ITS THE ROTATIONS!! Browns rotations are constantly changing and hard to figure out . . . THEREFORE . . . how can our players gain cohesiveness, confidence and chemistry playin together. He keeps changin the rotation!

[Kilroy]

That's actually my point... It got a little lost in all the LO vs Jamison stuff... But my point is:

A: LO was great but even in his prime wouldn't be that big of an improvement over Jamison for THIS team.
B: Our bench isn't really the problem and Farmar/Sasha/Brown/LO, isn't better than Jamison/Hill/Blake/Sacre/Meeks

But something needs to be done about the rotations... And I'd like to get MWP out of the starting lineup somehow.

[Slartibartfast]

Yes I did... Did you notice that even your own analysis heavily weights rebounding? Which we don't need now...

Jamison's 40% from the field is actually better to me than Lamar's 46-53 average because most of that was around the basket... Put-backs, dunks, tip-ins, and garbage time... Jamison, as a shooter, is better/more consistent than LO. And we have a much greater need for shooters now.

You're over-rating Lamar's D significantly and most of his defensive rep comes from his rebounding. Just like every player in the league though, there are certain matchups he just owned. But Lamar even at his best, would look lost on D for large stretches of games...

And we don't need Jamison to defend or rebound with 4s... He just needs to defend 3s... Which he is admittedly, probably too slow for. Really, all we need him to do is provide scoring off the bench... But he's also showing some passing touch as well which is a bonus.

And add to that the obvious fact... Lamar Odom is a head case and looks just about done.

I'm not arguing for the current version of LO - just talking about the decline in Laker bench play since he left (the Lakers did well to dump Odom before he melted down, but that doesn't refute the argument that they haven't found a replacement for him). And rebounding is absolutely important - it allowed the Lakers to play LO at the 4 or 5 without getting hurt on the boards and getting the match-up advantage of a quick ball-handler/playmaker with some shooting ability against other team's plodding bench guys (or a quick big who could dominate undersized bench bigs on the glass). Now they play guys like Hill and Sacre at the 4/5 who offer almost nothing in the way of match-up advantages.

I'm not saying LO' was an All-NBA defender, but he was waaaay better than Jamison is now. Very versatile, a good pick and roll defender, a guy who could defend the post and switch on to a wing. Jamison is a guy who is bad at guarding 4s, atrocious at guarding 3s, and a weak team defender.

He's also only moderately better at shooting 3s than Odom was, and he loses a lot of his already diminished offensive value when you play him at the 3, where his floor spacing is nothing special.

He's a horrible defender and an inefficient volume shooter playing out of position. I'm amazed that anyone would consider him on par with the 2009/2010 LO.

[popo85]

The problem started when they signed that Trash Blake, he had 1 good game vs Fisher in 2010 then boom he gets 16 mill. He can't play D nor hit a shot, no ability to drive to the basket he's been completely useless.

[Sedale Threatt]

He's a horrible defender and an inefficient volume shooter playing out of position. I'm amazed that anyone would consider him on par with the 2009/2010 LO.

Co-sign. Lamar would be mana from heaven right now. Jamison looks like a corpse.

[kblo247]

Lamar's 1 man abilities are greatly overlooked.

He could rebound and push it himself without waiting for a guard or needing to make an outlet.
He could handle the ball late in games and feed Kobe or Pau versus pressure.
He was by far the best mobile rebounder on the team.


But the one thing Lamar provided was he stopped Pau from beign raped at PF by speed, athleticism, or switches. Lamar could keep a pg in front of him off a switch, he could show hard and high then rotate over to a shooter then to his guy and then the glass all fluidly, and he was able to funnel properly by knowing when and how to use the baseline as another defender or trap unlike Pau who becomes anyone's bitch when they run a baseline pnr at him. His team defense is greater than out bench solely because, well just look at game 7 when he checks in with us down in the third and you see a Red On Round Ball, Rodmanesque clinic on how you play defense on your guy and the team concept to get stops

It's why if I had my choice of Lamar Odom playing at his level before his left next to Dwight or Pau and Dwight, I'd choose Lamar and Dwight every day, and also why Mike looks so **** stupid trying to use Hill and Pau at PF on D like they can do what Odom could there on the perimeter to tilt the floor in our favor like Varejao did for the Cavs

[LAKESHOW]

The problem started when they signed that Trash Blake, he had 1 good game vs Fisher in 2010 then boom he gets 16 mill. He can't play D nor hit a shot, no ability to drive to the basket he's been completely useless.

TRUE! Ive told folks around before we got the dude. But you shoulda read those threads in those days. Blake is fantastic this . . . Blake is gonna be great at that . . . Blake is such a major upgrade . . . blah blah blah. oh well. Its one of those things you hate being right, because our team is hurting when it comes to guarding and defending drbble penetration.

[GAME TIME]

Antawn Jamison has looked like Troy Murphy part 2.. Doesn't play defense, rebound or knock down his shots from the perimeter. I hope he starts to pick it up, because he is the real problem on the bench right now