Should Bryan Colangelo be Fired

[StMikes31]

This thread should be brought up mid way of the season, not after the team starts 1-4.


We are only 5 games in, if the team continues to play poorly and have a bad record come january/february, then I'm all for getting rid of him.

That's what people say every year though.

Last year it ws "he's finally learned and doing a proper rebuild just give him time". What did that "rebuild" look like a mad chase after Nash and Fields. Now he's in "accelerated" rebuild mode which is codespeak for CMA and save my job. He's essentially a lame duck now with the very real possibility he goes into the trade market again to pull off one of his "correct his mistakes" trades with Fields. Those trades usually involve us giving up more future assets to correct the mistake.

The longer he stays the worse it will be for the next GM.

Could MLSE really be that inept that they haven't at least looked at possible candidates if there was even a chance they would not extend BC? They should have a list ready just in case,put an interm GM in and tie his hands (figuratively) and be able to complete a GM search very quickly.

The past 2 years we were rebuilding, this is the year he is going to get judged in terms of wins and losses. At least that's what I think. If the team continues to play poor and their record suggests it, I'm all for change but it is still early, I give it at least another 30 games.

[Morris_Shatford]

I guess we do differ in the way we view the game, based on Bargnani's performance (except for the most recent one) I think he should be coming off the bench because Amir and Ed are way to redundant and it seems like Bargnani just isn't a good fit with Lowry playing up tempo offence, any good coach would recognize that and if he did have the cajonas he would've had Andrea come off the bench (if guys like Harden and Manu can come off the bench then so can Andrea). Another thing that confused the hell out of me which you forgot to mentioned is Landry continuing to start even after having a craptastic pre season, I don't even know what made Casey think Landry had the starters role to begin with when he's done nothing in his career to prove to be a better candidate than Kleiza or hell even Anderson, this seems more like a "yes man" type of move by him due to Colangalo's hold on the team. And lastly, the continuous usage of the dual pg in the lineup when it clearly fails time and time again just to feed Jose's ego, Casey just seems to favour veterans and players who have higher salaries on the team (which is my main beef with him).

I think the problem is that in a starting rotation of Val/Bargnani/Fields/DD/Lowry, Bargnani is your second best shooter and slotting Amir or Davis certainly helps you defensively you ultimately get stuck with three guys who score close to the basket (PF/Val/DD crashes), one who doesn't score at all (Fields) and Lowry.

Your second unit has the opposite problem, Jose, Anderson, Ross, and to an extent Lucas can all shoot.

If Bargnani was traded for an honest to goodness 1A scoring option at the three, then by all means start Davis or Amir at the four, but as long as we have a starting line-up where Bargnani is our second best offensive player its hard for me to get on Casey too much about starting him.

Manu and Harden came off the bench with much different line-ups;
I think Bargnani would be worse off the bench with the second unit, and I think Casey is just don't what he can to mitigate damage.

[icoholic]

It's not BC's fault he hasn't had a chance at drafting a superstar (Maybe Val can approach that, but he's probably a #2), and you can't trade for one unless you're in one of those desireable 4-5 cities. One of which is what is required to be an above mediocre team in the NBA. This league is the worst in professional sports for balance.

Coleangelo knows more about basketball than anyone on this board. As much as that will pain the negative folks around here.

Draft the next Durant.... then we might actually be good again.

[SDM]

Coleangelo knows more about basketball than anyone on this board. As much as that will pain the negative folks around here.

On paper he does. On paper he also puts together losing teams that many posters here have accurately predicted would be poor performing. I don't think there's anything in the last 7 years that indicates he's more effective than some posters here would be.

[dTox]

I guess we do differ in the way we view the game, based on Bargnani's performance (except for the most recent one) I think he should be coming off the bench because Amir and Ed are way to redundant and it seems like Bargnani just isn't a good fit with Lowry playing up tempo offence, any good coach would recognize that and if he did have the cajonas he would've had Andrea come off the bench (if guys like Harden and Manu can come off the bench then so can Andrea). Another thing that confused the hell out of me which you forgot to mentioned is Landry continuing to start even after having a craptastic pre season, I don't even know what made Casey think Landry had the starters role to begin with when he's done nothing in his career to prove to be a better candidate than Kleiza or hell even Anderson, this seems more like a "yes man" type of move by him due to Colangalo's hold on the team. And lastly, the continuous usage of the dual pg in the lineup when it clearly fails time and time again just to feed Jose's ego, Casey just seems to favour veterans and players who have higher salaries on the team (which is my main beef with him).

I think the problem is that in a starting rotation of Val/Bargnani/Fields/DD/Lowry, Bargnani is your second best shooter and slotting Amir or Davis certainly helps you defensively you ultimately get stuck with three guys who score close to the basket (PF/Val/DD crashes), one who doesn't score at all (Fields) and Lowry.

Your second unit has the opposite problem, Jose, Anderson, Ross, and to an extent Lucas can all shoot.

If Bargnani was traded for an honest to goodness 1A scoring option at the three, then by all means start Davis or Amir at the four, but as long as we have a starting line-up where Bargnani is our second best offensive player its hard for me to get on Casey too much about starting him.

Manu and Harden came off the bench with much different line-ups;
I think Bargnani would be worse off the bench with the second unit, and I think Casey is just don't what he can to mitigate damage.

I understand the reasoning behind keeping him in the lineup, but it just isn't working. He's in the lineup because of his shooting but its been terribly inefficient (not just this year but in the past as well), to the point where Davis' inability to score from the outside is less of a damage than Bargnani's shooting woes, at least Davis brings other elements to the table such as defense and rebounding compared to Bargnani who completely checks himself out of the game when his shot isn't falling. And again, I just don't understand why Fields automatically became the starter of this team seeing as how he has done nothing to earn it, which is a clear indication that Casey is just going by Bryan's vision of the team regardless of the outcome. Same goes with the two headed pg in the lineup over and over again.

[icoholic]

Coleangelo knows more about basketball than anyone on this board. As much as that will pain the negative folks around here.

On paper he does. On paper he also puts together losing teams that many posters here have accurately predicted would be poor performing. I don't think there's anything in the last 7 years that indicates he'd be more effective than some posters here.

Sure, but that's not to say he wasn't realistic internally about it either. If there are no other options, of course you have to say positive things, you still have to sell tickets. The fact of the matter is, way more goes on then what ends up for our consumption.

[BD12]

It's not BC's fault he hasn't had a chance at drafting a superstar (Maybe Val can approach that, but he's probably a #2), and you can't trade for one unless you're in one of those desireable 4-5 cities. One of which is what is required to be an above mediocre team in the NBA. This league is the worst in professional sports for balance.

Coleangelo knows more about basketball than anyone on this board. As much as that will pain the negative folks around here.

Draft the next Durant.... then we might actually be good again.

Every GM/assistant GM knows more than anyone on this board. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be fired. BC is one of the highest paid GMs in the NBA and what has he done to show for it? Most recently - 4 consecutive losing seasons!

As for the trade comment, that is baloney. Any team can trade for a superstar if they have the available assets. Just like how a poorly run Clippers franchise was able to acquire Paul because they had ASSETS.

[dTox]

It's not BC's fault he hasn't had a chance at drafting a superstar (Maybe Val can approach that, but he's probably a #2), and you can't trade for one unless you're in one of those desireable 4-5 cities. One of which is what is required to be an above mediocre team in the NBA. This league is the worst in professional sports for balance.

Coleangelo knows more about basketball than anyone on this board. As much as that will pain the negative folks around here.

Draft the next Durant.... then we might actually be good again.

I'm quite confident that no one in this forum in their right mind would give Landry Fields a 19 mill contract

[BD12]

As for BC, he had Chris Bosh, Andrea Bargnani (#1 pick), Charlie Villaneuva and cap space when he signed. So he has had chances to draft a 2nd tier player like Rudy Gay or LaMarcus Aldridge. He also let Chris Bosh leave for nothing because he thought a starting lineup of Calderon, DD, Turk, CB4, and Bargs could actually get past the 1st round of the playoffs with a terrible coach in Jay Triano in the Eastern Conference. If he wasn't so delusional, we could have attained assets for Bosh.

Instead of getting a SG/SF that could score, he acquired an injury prone Jermaine O'Neal that was way past his prime. This past off-season, Casey and Colangelo both emphasized the Raptors needed a "veteran" player with playoff experience. They go out and acquire Landry Fields of all players. Also, in the 6 seasons Kyle Lowry has been in the NBA, he's only been to the playoffs ONCE.

[Too Late Crew]

It's not BC's fault he hasn't had a chance at drafting a superstar (Maybe Val can approach that, but he's probably a #2), and you can't trade for one unless you're in one of those desireable 4-5 cities. One of which is what is required to be an above mediocre team in the NBA. This league is the worst in professional sports for balance.

Coleangelo knows more about basketball than anyone on this board. As much as that will pain the negative folks around here.

Draft the next Durant.... then we might actually be good again.

Ever hear of the Memphis Grizzlies?

[God Squad]

Im over the Bryan Colangelo Era. So over it.

[Lawnmower Man]

I actually think we might make a decent run at the playoffs this year with this roster...but I still want BC fired.

The fact is, as much as BC touts the word "flexibility", we are probably in one of the least flexible situations of all teams in this league.

We don't have any serious cap space for at least the next 2.5 years, about the time when our best player (Lowry) will need to be extended anyway. Aside from Lowry and Valanciunas, our assets are not valuable enough (largely due to the size of their contracts) to net us any serious help to ever take that next step. Some are almost untradeable. The ceiling of our current "young" core is nothing to write home about, other than Jonas (who is our only saving grace in terms of improving this squad year over year). We've pretty much "Boshed" Jonas by putting the fate of improving this team solely into his has.

Sure, we may end up making a run at the playoffs in these next two years to attain that coveted 8th seed and sweep position...but that will our ceiling, and we have no more "flexibility" to change this fate.

After almost seven years since hiring one of the highest paid GMs in the league (with only the first season being a winning season) We deserve better than this.

[Wo1verine]

He should have been fired years ago - he doesn't even know how to tank properly making the last two seasons pretty much a waste

[Lawnmower Man]

BC has done a great job of diminishing our assets in a few short months.

I recall, before the draft when we were all talking about possible trade packages for Rudy Gay...half this board would have been LIVID if our 8th overall pick was included in any trade for Gay. Now, I think most people on this board wove absolutely LOVE a trade of Ross for Gay.

I recall someone mentioning a package of DeRozan + the 8th pick for Gay. People went nuts. Now...Memphis would laugh at the idea of a Ross+DeRozan for Gay deal. It doesn't help them at all financially (with DeRozan's new contract), and they take a talent hit in a trade for two players who play the same position.

The value of our 8th pick would have been increased with a drafting of Drummond. Sure, Drummond hasn't proved anything, but the PERCIEVED value of Drummond far exceeds that of Ross. As an example, I'm sure that if we had drafted Drummond, we could have even been able to acquire James Harden. I could see OKC entertaining an offer of Drummond and DeRozan (before his extension) for Harden. I'm sure many on this board would've been opposed to such a trade (back when our 8th pick and pre-contract-extension DeRozan had more value), but now...I think almost everyone would praise BC if he could take those same assets today (DeRozan and Ross) and turn them into a James Harden.

We were already thin on assets, and we've somehow reduced the value of these two key assets in a few short months. This has hurt this franchise pretty badly (along with the failed Nash chase and Fields signing). The fact we still owe a lotto pick is just insult to injury. This is really what has set people off in these past few months.

[rottenzombie]

BC has done a great job of diminishing our assets in a few short months.

I recall, before the draft when we were all talking about possible trade packages for Rudy Gay...half this board would have been LIVID if our 8th overall pick was included in any trade for Gay. Now, I think most people on this board wove absolutely LOVE a trade of Ross for Gay.

I recall someone mentioning a package of DeRozan + the 8th pick for Gay. People went nuts. Now...Memphis would laugh at the idea of a Ross+DeRozan for Gay deal. It doesn't help them at all financially (with DeRozan's new contract), and they take a talent hit in a trade for two players who play the same position.

The value of our 8th pick would have been increased with a drafting of Drummond. Sure, Drummond hasn't proved anything, but the PERCIEVED value of Drummond far exceeds that of Ross. As an example, I'm sure that if we had drafted Drummond, we could have even been able to acquire James Harden. I could see OKC entertaining an offer of Drummond and DeRozan (before his extension) for Harden. I'm sure many on this board would've been opposed to such a trade (back when our 8th pick and pre-contract-extension DeRozan had more value), but now...I think almost everyone would praise BC if he could take those same assets today (DeRozan and Ross) and turn them into a James Harden.

We were already thin on assets, and we've somehow reduced the value of these two key assets in a few short months. This has hurt this franchise pretty badly (along with the failed Nash chase and Fields signing). The fact we still owe a lotto pick is just insult to injury. This is really what has set people off in these past few months.

Spot on with not drafting Drummond. It is what I have been saying since the draft. The value of Drummond lies not in how good he is or will be, but in how good certain other teams think he is or will be.

And yes, this team is in cap hell, with close to 25 millions tied up in Amir Johnson, Bargnani and Fields over the next 3 years. That is 25 millions invested on a bench big man, an inefficient volume scorer that does little else and a bona fide scrub. Just reflect on that for a second.

[miruss2001]

Quoth Jack Armstrong, from oh so many years ago:
"You are what your record is".

[Big Shot]

Quoth Jack Armstrong, from oh so many years ago:
"You are what your record is".

Then he'll say they're not as bad as the record shows.

[PdiC]

I'd like to see BC out, if for nothing other than switching it up. I don't see an end in sight to the treadmill, and new front end staff (for better or for worse) might put an end to it.

The question is who would be a proper replacement? I worry about MLSE bringing in some puck head or a fresh faced MBA who managed his school team. This team needs someone like Danny Ainge with full atonomy to run things.

[ReggieSlater]

I want BC to stick around. He has respect around the league and does a lot of things well. Hes good at making trades, and is a fantastic drafter. His weakness is obviously in overpaying and going after shhitt FA's. Yes hes made mistakes, tons of them, but hes a young gm and i can see him getting better if hes not on such a tight leash. What he pulls off at the trade deadline will be the deciding factor if he sticks around or not.

I see where you're going and I've been a quazi supporter in the past, but the troubling thing with both Fields and DeRozan signing is he isn't learning from his mistakes. If he was learning, I'd be fine sticking it out with him, since I think stability is an under valued component to putting together a quality franchise. But he isn't learning. I don't like the idea of getting a new GM every 5 years and a new coach every three. He's made some mistakes (some big ones) and he's made some good moves too, but if he can't learn on the job, he has to go.

[West Rouge]

I want BC to stick around. He has respect around the league and does a lot of things well. Hes good at making trades, and is a fantastic drafter. His weakness is obviously in overpaying and going after shhitt FA's. Yes hes made mistakes, tons of them, but hes a young gm and i can see him getting better if hes not on such a tight leash. What he pulls off at the trade deadline will be the deciding factor if he sticks around or not.

I see where you're going and I've been a quazi supporter in the past, but the troubling thing with both Fields and DeRozan signing is he isn't learning from his mistakes. If he was learning, I'd be fine sticking it out with him, since I think stability is an under valued component to putting together a quality franchise. But he isn't learning. I don't like the idea of getting a new GM every 5 years and a new coach every three. He's made some mistakes (some big ones) and he's made some good moves too, but if he can't learn on the job, he has to go.

Why should we pay this guy millions of dollars to learn on the job anyway? Did he let Smitch learn? Did he let JT learn? No. I could do as good of job as this guy and so could most posters here. Accountability should not be delegated down. It should start at the top. Problem is we as fans play along with the fire the coach game. Lets start calling out the right people.

This is becoming a Joke of a franchise not because of players not wanting to be in the cold or taxes. But because we as fans put up with Mickey Mouse Managers. If we dont demand more well never get it.