Race to the MVP.

[TwentyOne920]

Carmelo is shooting 44% from the field and averages 1 assist per game. You cant find one flaw in LeBron's game right now. Maybe his headband is too high?

But LeBron has lows in points per game and assists per game!

[PetroNet]

there is no race, unless lebron gets hurt

[C-izMe]

Carmelo is shooting 44% from the field and averages 1 assist per game. You cant find one flaw in LeBron's game right now. Maybe his headband is too high?

His flaw is that his team is playing amazing. They really don't need him right now (he's coasted through every game this year).

no other team can throw a pf on a pg when they are lighting you up. just ask jeff teague the most recent victim

Wade can guard PGs, and their PGs can guard PGs. All because Lebron is 6-9 it doesn't mean he's doing something only he can do. Many players can guard PGs.

[arifgokcen]

Carmelo is shooting 44% from the field and averages 1 assist per game. You cant find one flaw in LeBron's game right now. Maybe his headband is too high?

His flaw is that his team is playing amazing. They really don't need him right now (he's coasted through every game this year).

no other team can throw a pf on a pg when they are lighting you up. just ask jeff teague the most recent victim

Wade can guard PGs, and their PGs can guard PGs. All because Lebron is 6-9 it doesn't mean he's doing something only he can do. Many players can guard PGs.

His team is playing amazing because of his play.Take him off that team they would lose atlanta denver and boston games.He is their best player at every facet of the game besides blocking shots.

Thats not what he said.He said pf on a pg.Of course pg guards pg however no pf can guard a player like westbrook or rose and completely shut them down

[C-izMe]

If the PG is getting guarded effectively the PG is getting guarded effectively. That's clearly something that's very valuable but very easily replaceable. Lebron being 6-9 doesn't make guarding a PG something only he can do.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Heat are 5-1 with Wade, Chalmers, Ray and Bosh playing great too. Without Lebron they'd still be 5-1 or 4-2. Most valuable means the team would fall apart without you. Melo leads the offense of the Knicks (they need a scorer) and is surprisingly a leader on defense right now.

Right now Melo deserves I more than Lebron.

That's hyperbole and isn't the definition of the MVP. There's no way to know what the Heat's record would be if LeBron wasn't playing or what the Knicks would be without Melo. Considering that the Knicks have been blowing teams out, you have even less ground to stand on in that regard when the Heat are winning some close games and LeBron is putting up near triple doubles in those games. As a quick example, the Heat were 15-1 last season in games that Wade didn't play.

Logically speaking, the most valuable player in the entire league is supposed to technically be the best player in the league. LeBron isn't getting penalized for the help he has, and it isn't affecting his ability to do his own job. He's shooting a whopping TWELVE percent higher than Melo. That's a huge difference. I'm pretty sure if you took away Chris Paul from the Clippers, they'd lose more than the Knicks losing Melo so by your definition, is Chris Paul the MVP? If Melo were taking every shot for the Knicks at his current efficiency, they'd have one of the worst offenses in the league. If LeBron were taking every shot for the Heat, they'd have the best offense in the league just based off of the math.

I don't like hyperbole because that's centered in bias and unrealistic calculations. Stick to the tangible.

Chill man, he's making a point. There's no hyperbole. Stick to the tangible? how do you know taking CP3 from the clippers would be more impactful than taking Melo from the knicks?

Unrealistic calculations? " If Melo were taking every shot for the Knicks at his current efficiency, they'd have one of the worst offenses in the league. If LeBron were taking every shot for the Heat, they'd have the best offense in the league just based off of the math." Thats one of the most ridiculous points I've ever heard.

Speaking of bias, you talk about how Lebron's ring has anything to do with this mvp race, while calling people who bring up his teamates talent as using hyperbole.

[xStanton27]

If the heat win 65-70 games, its no contest.

[kamelion4291]

Carmelo is shooting 44% from the field and averages 1 assist per game. You cant find one flaw in LeBron's game right now. Maybe his headband is too high?

His flaw is that his team is playing amazing. They really don't need him right now (he's coasted through every game this year).

no other team can throw a pf on a pg when they are lighting you up. just ask jeff teague the most recent victim

Wade can guard PGs, and their PGs can guard PGs. All because Lebron is 6-9 it doesn't mean he's doing something only he can do. Many players can guard PGs.

They won the Denver game on a Ray Allen 4 pointer at the end of the game. I'm fairly sure they lose that game without LeBron. They were up 1 when LeBron hit a jumper with 13 seconds left against Atlanta on Friday and was 1 assist shy of a triple double. Wade didn't play that game. That means they're 3-3 at the very most right now. Maybe they win the Boston game, the Phoenix game, and the Nets game without him. Kris Humphries had a double double in the first half of that game at it was close at halftime. They put LeBron on Humphries in the second half and he had like 1 point and 1 rebound after halftime and the Heat blew the game open. I don't even know if they win that game without LeBron.

Aren't the Knicks "playing amazing" too? They're 2nd in the NBA in offensive efficiency and Carmelo is shooting only 44%, meaning his team is shooting better than he is.

I don't understand your logic.

[NYK_89]

People attacking Carmelo's shooting percentage

Watch a game he has in no way been inneficent his shooting percentage will always be kept down in this role as he is the only guy who the knicks can go to in a bad situation right now and he gets an absurd amount of offensive putbacks that sometimes can lead to 3-4 missed shots on one possession yet still lead to carmelo scoring.

[kamelion4291]

Heat are 5-1 with Wade, Chalmers, Ray and Bosh playing great too. Without Lebron they'd still be 5-1 or 4-2. Most valuable means the team would fall apart without you. Melo leads the offense of the Knicks (they need a scorer) and is surprisingly a leader on defense right now.

Right now Melo deserves I more than Lebron.

That's hyperbole and isn't the definition of the MVP. There's no way to know what the Heat's record would be if LeBron wasn't playing or what the Knicks would be without Melo. Considering that the Knicks have been blowing teams out, you have even less ground to stand on in that regard when the Heat are winning some close games and LeBron is putting up near triple doubles in those games. As a quick example, the Heat were 15-1 last season in games that Wade didn't play.

Logically speaking, the most valuable player in the entire league is supposed to technically be the best player in the league. LeBron isn't getting penalized for the help he has, and it isn't affecting his ability to do his own job. He's shooting a whopping TWELVE percent higher than Melo. That's a huge difference. I'm pretty sure if you took away Chris Paul from the Clippers, they'd lose more than the Knicks losing Melo so by your definition, is Chris Paul the MVP? If Melo were taking every shot for the Knicks at his current efficiency, they'd have one of the worst offenses in the league. If LeBron were taking every shot for the Heat, they'd have the best offense in the league just based off of the math.

I don't like hyperbole because that's centered in bias and unrealistic calculations. Stick to the tangible.

Chill man, he's making a point. There's no hyperbole. Stick to the tangible? how do you know taking CP3 from the clippers would be more impactful than taking Melo from the knicks?

Unrealistic calculations? " If Melo were taking every shot for the Knicks at his current efficiency, they'd have one of the worst offenses in the league. If LeBron were taking every shot for the Heat, they'd have the best offense in the league just based off of the math." Thats one of the most ridiculous points I've ever heard.

Speaking of bias, you talk about how Lebron's ring has anything to do with this mvp race, while calling people who bring up his teamates talent as using hyperbole.

Saying one team would do better without a player than another is the definition of hyperbole. The taking every shot thing was based on their percentages when on second look, Melo's TS% would make them the 9th or so best offense in the league, not one of the worst so I was wrong about that. LeBron on the other hand would still be number one as his TS% is a ridiculous 63% right now. Melo as a scorer is shooting a lower TS% than his team is. You can't say the same for LeBron. LeBron also is 10x the playmaker Melo is while rebounding better and being a defensive anchor to 4 positions on the court. There's really no argument to be made that Melo should be MVP over LeBron in this small sample size.

If you want to make him MVP because he beat Miami (the team hit 19 3's setup by other players and Melo was taking HORRIBLE shots in the 2nd quarter), then we should change the MVP to the best player on the next team that beats the Knicks.

Transitive property for sports doesn't work.

[C-izMe]

Total ORTG>>>>TS%. His total ORTG is a 109. That's very good for someone taking all the hard shots.


And do you understand the definition of hyperbole because I'm not sure you do?

[kamelion4291]

People attacking Carmelo's shooting percentage

Watch a game he has in no way been inneficent his shooting percentage will always be kept down in this role as he is the only guy who the knicks can go to in a bad situation right now and he gets an absurd amount of offensive putbacks that sometimes can lead to 3-4 missed shots on one possession yet still lead to carmelo scoring.

Averages 1.8 offensive rebounds per game. Something tells me you're exaggerating.

[starvinmarvin17]

Did anyone see jeff teague face when they put bron on him

[kamelion4291]

Total ORTG>>>>TS%. His total ORTG is a 109. That's very good for someone taking all the hard shots.


And do you understand the definition of hyperbole because I'm not sure you do?

And LeBron's ORTG is?

[starvinmarvin17]

This convo needs to happen around december

[Ziggy Stardust]

Saying one team would do better without a player than another is the definition of hyperbole. The taking every shot thing was based on their percentages when on second look, Melo's TS% would make them the 9th or so best offense in the league, not one of the worst so I was wrong about that. LeBron on the other hand would still be number one as his TS% is a ridiculous 63% right now. Melo as a scorer is shooting a lower TS% than his team is. You can't say the same for LeBron. LeBron also is 10x the playmaker Melo is while rebounding better and being a defensive anchor to 4 positions on the court. There's really no argument to be made that Melo should be MVP over LeBron in this small sample size.

If you want to make him MVP because he beat Miami (the team hit 19 3's setup by other players and Melo was taking HORRIBLE shots in the 2nd quarter), then we should change the MVP to the best player on the next team that beats the Knicks.

Transitive property for sports doesn't work.

This is a message board, and thats not hyberbole. Its and opinion, and a very understandable opinion. Also, in the next sentence you pretty much admit you were being hyperbolic in regards to his efficency and how great Lebrons was too. If you want to nitpick then calling Lebron 10x the playmaker is hyberbole also.

I also just saw the taking every shot thing comical. Like you were trying to make some great point to support Lebron. Forget this is basketball and the very idea is ridiculous. Lebron and Melo now take every shot for their teams, and nothing changes. They shoot the same percentages and break Wilts record every other night. Awesome.

Melo is probably not gonna sustain it, but it isn't ridiculous to call him the mvp a couple games into the season. I mean this thread is called the race to the MVP.

[trickshot]

Did anyone see jeff teague face when they put bron on him

Yeah, I still don't understand how he sometimes locks down Pgs and bigger players. 70% of the time I'm sure if they take him on, they'd score anyway by blowing past him or taking him to the post respectively, but they don't even seem to attempt. Like they scared. Maybe it's just the intimidation factor, i dont know, but it's always funny to see.

Having said that, after these 4-6 games I'd give it to Melo. It remains to be seen if he can continue leading New york to the Ws over the course of the season. And for the sake of this thread, can we stop with the hypothetical "if we take player X of this team" or "he's the best player in the world" arguments. We get them every year and is really tedious, some posters don't learn. We all know the MVP is going to be decided by the Ws (like it always is) and not who's the best player or who put up the best stats.

[Falstaffxx]

I'd say it's James so far...22 ppg, 56% shooting, 10 rpg, 6 apg

Anthony = 27 ppg, 44% shooting, 7 rpg, 1.5 apg

Both playing good defense, but James is more dominant on that end.

[TheGarden]

I'd say it's James so far...22 ppg, 56% shooting, 10 rpg, 6 apg

Anthony = 27 ppg, 44% shooting, 7 rpg, 1.5 apg

Both playing good defense, but James is more dominant on that end.

thats a lie

Carmelo has a defensive rating of 97

LeBron has a defensive rating of 103

so how is James more dominant on that end, Carmelo also averages more blocks 1.2(CA)-0.8(LBJ) and steals(slightly)0.8(CA)-0.7(LBJ)

[Tien]

Lebron so far.

Melo and Durant fighting for second.