Race to the MVP.

[TheKingOfVa360]

1.Melo
2.Harden
3.Durant
4.Duncan
5.Bron

[NYK_89]

So what you're saying is that you will completely ignore data that argues with what you think you're watching, even when it points to the contrary. Does that sound objective to you?

On a side note, do the Knicks ever play basketball? How have they only played 4 games?

That whole hurricane thing ring a bell?

Didn't they only reschedule 1 game? Even if they had played that game, they'd have played 5 games. Miami's playing their 8th tonight for instance.

There are 6 other teams with only 5 games, the knicks get into a 4 games a week schedule for 3 weeks starting Tuesday i believe where it will all be made up for

[NYK_89]

1.Melo
2.Harden
3.Durant
4.Duncan
5.Bron

Care to explain? His team is now 3-3 and his numbers have been pretty bad since the first 2 games

[TheKingOfVa360]

1.Melo
2.Harden
3.Durant
4.Duncan
5.Bron

Care to explain? His team is now 3-3 and his numbers have been pretty bad since the first 2 games

He's sinking very fast but he is very valuable to his team. In a week he will probably be off the list and on the top of the MIP list.

[mademan]

Right now:

1. Duncan
2.Melo
3.Lebron

By seasons end

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Paul/Melo (don't think the Knicks can keep this up, but I'd like to be proven wrong)

[stephcurry4life]

I think we can all agree that Melo is an outstanding scorer, and his team is off too a good start which merits discussion for early MVP talk. It will be interesting to see if he can keep it up and if the team can keep winning once Amare comes back from injury. But to say that Melo doesn't get superstar calls like LeBron and Durant get? thats ridicuous. Come on now, you don't need to say that. He is a great player and he gets to the line a lot. I am a warriors fan, nobody on my team gets any calls ever...hell against the lakers the other night Kobe got a foul called on Klay Thompson just because he yelled while driving to the basket. The refs do the best job they can do in this league to be fair, and there will always be blown calls but for the most part they do a good job so don't argue that.

[TheGarden]

So what you're saying is that you will completely ignore data that argues with what you think you're watching, even when it points to the contrary. Does that sound objective to you?

On a side note, do the Knicks ever play basketball? How have they only played 4 games?

not at all but again numbers tell you one thing, all I know is watching guys play tells me more than studying stats

[StephNYKurry]

Here is something that the stats can't account for...how about the missed shots in the paint due to him being fouled. Carmelo would average 30 a night, on 50% shooting, if he curried the same favor, from referees as other superstars as Lebron and Durant.

Don't give me FTA as a response either, I'm well aware that Lebron, Melo, and Durant average about the same when it comes to FTA, but you can't quantify the amount of missed calls.

This thread has turned into "Let's make up things for Carmelo Anthony" apparently. If Carmelo Anthony was getting fouled at the basket with no calls, and LeBron and Durant get the foul calls, then Carmelo Anthony would average significantly more attempts at the basket than the other two because his attempts would actually count, as opposed to getting nullified by fouls. He doesn't, therefore it doesn't happen. This isn't rocket science.

Do you watch basketball games at all? Or just go to BB reference and spit numbers out? How do you know that Carmelo's tendency to shoot jumpers doesn't correlate with the fact he doesn't get calls? It's not like he isn't ampng the leaders in FTA's, so it's obvious that he is going to the paint at some point.

I'm done though, because you're probably going to keep stat babbling.

[C-izMe]

Here is something that the stats can't account for...how about the missed shots in the paint due to him being fouled. Carmelo would average 30 a night, on 50% shooting, if he curried the same favor, from referees as other superstars as Lebron and Durant.

Don't give me FTA as a response either, I'm well aware that Lebron, Melo, and Durant average about the same when it comes to FTA, but you can't quantify the amount of missed calls.

This thread has turned into "Let's make up things for Carmelo Anthony" apparently. If Carmelo Anthony was getting fouled at the basket with no calls, and LeBron and Durant get the foul calls, then Carmelo Anthony would average significantly more attempts at the basket than the other two because his attempts would actually count, as opposed to getting nullified by fouls. He doesn't, therefore it doesn't happen. This isn't rocket science.

Actually before playing with Dantoni he did have more attempts inside. I've already posted those numbers. He has the record for most shots at rim in a season other than Shaq with 9.4 attempts per game making them at 63%. Well over the attempts Lebron and Durant have ever taken.

[kamelion4291]

Here is something that the stats can't account for...how about the missed shots in the paint due to him being fouled. Carmelo would average 30 a night, on 50% shooting, if he curried the same favor, from referees as other superstars as Lebron and Durant.

Don't give me FTA as a response either, I'm well aware that Lebron, Melo, and Durant average about the same when it comes to FTA, but you can't quantify the amount of missed calls.

This thread has turned into "Let's make up things for Carmelo Anthony" apparently. If Carmelo Anthony was getting fouled at the basket with no calls, and LeBron and Durant get the foul calls, then Carmelo Anthony would average significantly more attempts at the basket than the other two because his attempts would actually count, as opposed to getting nullified by fouls. He doesn't, therefore it doesn't happen. This isn't rocket science.

Actually before playing with Dantoni he did have more attempts inside. I've already posted those numbers. He has the record for most shots at rim in a season other than Shaq with 9.4 attempts per game making them at 63%. Well over the attempts Lebron and Durant have ever taken.

The Nuggets were a transition team who played at a pace much higher than what LeBron played under in Cleveland or Durant plays under in OKC (or what Melo plays under in NY). It's also a statistical outlier considering it's almost 2 more attempts per game higher than his other seasons.

[kamelion4291]

Here is something that the stats can't account for...how about the missed shots in the paint due to him being fouled. Carmelo would average 30 a night, on 50% shooting, if he curried the same favor, from referees as other superstars as Lebron and Durant.

Don't give me FTA as a response either, I'm well aware that Lebron, Melo, and Durant average about the same when it comes to FTA, but you can't quantify the amount of missed calls.

This thread has turned into "Let's make up things for Carmelo Anthony" apparently. If Carmelo Anthony was getting fouled at the basket with no calls, and LeBron and Durant get the foul calls, then Carmelo Anthony would average significantly more attempts at the basket than the other two because his attempts would actually count, as opposed to getting nullified by fouls. He doesn't, therefore it doesn't happen. This isn't rocket science.

Do you watch basketball games at all? Or just go to BB reference and spit numbers out? How do you know that Carmelo's tendency to shoot jumpers doesn't correlate with the fact he doesn't get calls? It's not like he isn't ampng the leaders in FTA's, so it's obvious that he is going to the paint at some point.

I'm done though, because you're probably going to keep stat babbling.

No, you're right. It's a 10 year league wide conspiracy that Carmelo takes more jumpers because he's pouting that he doesn't get foul calls. Give me a break.

[TheGarden]

No, you're right. It's a 10 year league wide conspiracy that Carmelo takes more jumpers because he's pouting that he doesn't get foul calls. Give me a break.

its not a conspiracy its just you stat heads wont realize it unless you actually watch the guy play every game. Example vs Miami there were like 6 no calls resulting in missed shots for Carmelo

[Barack Mamba]

Kobe #1 in PER (other than Jimmer who barely plays)

[SwiLL2432]

If Kobe keeps up his play, hell be top 3 by seasons end. Long way to go

1)Kobe
2)Duncan
3)Bron/Durant/Paul

[mademan]

Kobe #1 in PER (other than Jimmer who barely plays)

Huh? Kobe's 6th.

[Barack Mamba]

Kobe #1 in PER (other than Jimmer who barely plays)

Huh? Kobe's 6th.

No
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics

[arifgokcen]

No, you're right. It's a 10 year league wide conspiracy that Carmelo takes more jumpers because he's pouting that he doesn't get foul calls. Give me a break.

its not a conspiracy its just you stat heads wont realize it unless you actually watch the guy play every game. Example vs Miami there were like 6 no calls resulting in missed shots for Carmelo

Wow knicks fans are the worst.You just dont see it.I watched melo a lot. Compared to lebron he gets more calls. Its in your head some kind of fantasy that stern conspired against melo because ...........

[og15]

thank you

eye test>>>>>stats>>>>>>>advanced stats

Eye test is not always the best measure, these all need to combined, and some can be better than others depending on what you are trying to determine. I don't have some proportions, but eye test is way too subjective, especially when we have all these people watching the same players and getting very varying conclusions. If there were no individual statistics, it would be interesting to see who people called the best players, etc.

Statistics have grown, the eye test cop out is getting much weaker. You see that one time he gets a lot of tips, and you extrapolate it to him going 1/3 or 1/4 every game doing that and say "well his FG% is because of that". Why should I believe that you are accurate? What if someone says his FG% get's a boost because he get's a lot of tip ins, should I believe you or them? In addition, Anthony doesn't average that many offensive rebounds a game.

Carmelo shot 80% on tip ins last season, and he shot 47.4% overall on offensive rebounds. Both those plays would have helped his FG%. So according to both of you, offensive rebounding was hurting his FG%, but we checked the numbers and in fact it was not, so how well did eye test work out there. You need both. You say "I think offensive rebounds affect his FG%", you go check the numbers, if they support you, great, if they disagree, then your perception was wrong, that's how one should do things. This is a simpler thing to check, more advanced things require more than just checking some number.

The eye test should be the biggest factor

The game is played on the hardwood not with computers and metrics. This isn't fantasy basketball statistics dont mean **** to me. The Knicks are 4-0, Carmelo is the best player on the Knicks and is playing great basketball

There's nothing more to discuss, not his last 9 years in the league, thats irrelevant to this year, he's a new player and its a new day

Why should the eye test be the biggest factor in every case, just because you said so, or is their some reasonable explanation?

No one is disagreeing with the bolded, but that doesn't make the statement that Carmelo's FG% is negatively affected by offensive rebounds any less wrong.

I'm not disregarding Carmelo as a possible MVP candidate if the Knicks continue to play excellently, but all the false reasoning being thrown out to justify certain flaws in his game are not magically accurate just because I don't disagree with the overarching statement.

This post is basically an example of lack of objectivity. It's like sticking your head in the sand and going lalaala. The doctor tells you that you didn't actually get a cold because your left your window open that one cold night, and that it is is a virus, so you contracted it from someone else. You didn't get a cold the other times you left your window open, but because you got it now, you make the correlation and jump to causation. You would leave the doctors office saying "all I know is that I opened my window that night, and the next night I got a cold, I don't care about any virus or correlation, or research!"

[mademan]

Kobe #1 in PER (other than Jimmer who barely plays)

Huh? Kobe's 6th.

No
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics

I'm not sure whats wrong with this stat (I think its a pace adjustment) but BBreference has Kobe at 6.

[GoNYK1288]

Kobe #1 in PER (other than Jimmer who barely plays)

And that would matter if the Lakers had a winning record.