Jim Buss, Phil Jackson and Hubris

[ennui]

Now we all know Mike D'antoni was just recently hired over the much clamored for Phil Jackson. Phil Jackson, the ideal leading candidate, most suitable to integrating multiple superstars with a system and a track record that speaks for itself, was apparently asking a price too exorbitant, even for the Lakers. According to reports, Phil wanted more FO control, exclusion from predetermined road trips and an opulent salary.

All these demands, although extreme, were presumably provided as a fail safe to protect himself (Phil) from a perceived incompetency of Jim Buss. On the other hand, Jim, desperate to carve his own path, was weary of relinquishing that much in order to re-acquire Phil.

Hypothetically, if Phil was truly the best coach for the Lakers currently, was is it a detriment to our team to have a decision that was so ego-driven? What does this mean in the future, will Buss be willing to swallow his pride for future endeavors? Can Jim Buss' arrogance hinder our ability to be the very best we can be?

[dockingsched]

i prefer to believe that the lakers front office, kupchak+jim+jerry simply decided that d'antoni was the better fit.

- easier to transition into his offense vs. the triangle offense, crucial in this mid-season change.
- only nash is committed past next yr, and you want to show d12 a plan he can buy into when re-signing.

doesn't have to be more complicated than that.

[iamworthy]

I think this move was made strictly for steve nash. If Nash was not a member of the lakers MD would not be the lakers coach imo, phil would. There are so many he said she said rumors out there its hard to believe any of them.

[ennui]

Hypothetically, what if this was a hiring entirely based on ego (hasn't been fully disproven), what does that mean for the Lakers organisation? Will Buss continue to wave his dick around at the expense of the team? There have been multiple reports of Jim wanting to do things his way.

[dingclancy]

The midnight call to Phil is particularly bothersome. Plus having Mike D.A. sign a contract at 3am and fax it. No due diligence was done, Mike D.A. was hired after a phone call. Lol!

I like Mike D.A. though.

[desertlakerfan]

Jim Buss could of easily squashed the rumors that he was the driving factor behind LA and Phil parting ways before Mike Brown was hired by rehiring Phil. Instead they went another direction again, leaving the window open for deserved criticism.

[dockingsched]

The midnight call to Phil is particularly bothersome. Plus having Mike D.A. sign a contract at 3am and fax it. No due diligence was done, Mike D.A. was hired after a phone call. Lol!

I like Mike D.A. though.

i don't have a problem with the midnight call. at this stage, thats what u have to do to avoid having someone find things out on the internet. now that would be sucky.

here's how i think things went down:

friday: lakers fire brown, create a candidate list, phil at the top, d'antoni/dunleavy on there too.

saturday: jim/mitch have the 90 min meeting with phil, it goes well but he's not ready to commit to becoming a coach again, no job offer is made in light of that. phil says he needs 2 days to think about, lakers tell him they'll be interviewing other candidates in the meantime

saturday/sunday: lakers interview dunleavy, interview d'antoni. they really like what d'antoni has to say, like it even more than phil (ex; ways he'll use nash, ease of implementing his system on the fly).

sunday: lakers FO decides they want d'antoni over phil, move forward with it. when they come to an agreement with d'antoni they immediately let phil know to avoid him finding out elsewhere and to not let him think he's a candidate any longer than he has to.

phil was never offered the job, he should have been ready to commit on saturday and not let the lakers go interview other people.

[Dr Aki]

here we go again... with the jim buss is screwing the team over because his ego is too big

kupchak, jim and jerry ALL CAME TO THE CONCLUSION UNANIMOUSLY that MDA was the better coaching candidate.

when will fans come to accept jim buss??? when we finally win a ring??? like when mitch delivered gasol?? how much input do you think jim had on the nash and howard signings??

[dingclancy]

The midnight call to Phil is particularly bothersome. Plus having Mike D.A. sign a contract at 3am and fax it. No due diligence was done, Mike D.A. was hired after a phone call. Lol!

I like Mike D.A. though.

i don't have a problem with the midnight call. at this stage, thats what u have to do to avoid having someone find things out on the internet. now that would be sucky.

here's how i think things went down:

friday: lakers fire brown, create a candidate list, phil at the top, d'antoni/dunleavy on there too.

saturday: jim/mitch have the 90 min meeting with phil, it goes well but he's not ready to commit to becoming a coach again, no job offer is made in light of that. phil says he needs 2 days to think about, lakers tell him they'll be interviewing other candidates in the meantime

saturday/sunday: lakers interview dunleavy, interview d'antoni. they really like what d'antoni has to say, like it even more than phil (ex; ways he'll use nash, ease of implementing his system on the fly).

sunday: lakers FO decides they want d'antoni over phil, move forward with it. when they come to an agreement with d'antoni they immediately let phil know to avoid him finding out elsewhere and to not let him think he's a candidate any longer than he has to.

phil was never offered the job, he should have been ready to commit on saturday and not let the lakers go interview other people.

From that perspective it look fine. Thanks! We will really never know what went behind the scenes here, but just the deal with Shaw, and Lester, it felt the same thing to me.

[kobeaki]

here we go again... with the jim buss is screwing the team over because his ego is too big

kupchak, jim and jerry ALL CAME TO THE CONCLUSION UNANIMOUSLY that MDA was the better coaching candidate.

when will fans come to accept jim buss??? when we finally win a ring??? like when mitch delivered gasol?? how much input do you think jim had on the nash and howard signings??

I think Jim was offended by Phil, as though don't like each other much to begin with, interviews the other two, and made the decision to hire dantoni on the spot, or at least by himself, same with brown...

And worked back from there. The statement about the three in charge agreeing is damage control and public relations in light of the chants at staples and widespread media speculation.

Now the way this team is constructed currently is much more conducive to Phil and half court sets.... Not anything dantoni has run in the past.

"Best for the team" is an ambiguous statement.... Best for on court? Off court? Front office? So read between the lines of the lakers statements...

Whether or not one wants to blame Jim buss or not, this is all his doing , going back years... It is front office messing with on court talent... I'm sure Phil has played his smug part in the drama, but as the" cough" owner of the team it is shortbuss responsibility to not be emotional about hiring and firing and do the best for the org, bottom line and team and the fan base... The past segment is what pays the bills...


And Jim set a horrible precedent of sudpician and distrust when he got rid if Ronnie Lester et al. In such an unceremonius way.

[dockingsched]

its crazy how quick people are to basically label mitch kupchak as a highly paid high profile yes man and jerry buss as an indifferent buffoon of an owner.

[Kilroy]

I'm just saddened and dismayed they never even interviewed Phil Jackman...

[Stebo_SSK]

its crazy how quick people are to basically label mitch kupchak as a highly paid high profile yes man and jerry buss as an indifferent buffoon of an owner.

Never got this. Why is Kupchak always the good guy but Jim Buss the bad? As if Kupchak has no bearing on any of the decisions made if not more. He's the basketball mind they defer to.

[Kilroy]

its crazy how quick people are to basically label mitch kupchak as a highly paid high profile yes man and jerry buss as an indifferent buffoon of an owner.

Never got this. Why is Kupchak always the good guy but Jim Buss the bad? As if Kupchak has no bearing on any of the decisions made if not more. He's the basketball mind they defer to.

I guess you haven't been around long enough to remember all the 'Kill Kupchak' nonsense that went on in the past... Before the emergence of Jim Buss, Mitch used to get regularly called incompetent, stupid, and just generally single-handedly responsible for the systematic dismantling of the great Lakers franchise...

If anyone should be asking how his ass taste, it's Mitch...

[LateRoundFlyer]

its crazy how quick people are to basically label mitch kupchak as a highly paid high profile yes man and jerry buss as an indifferent buffoon of an owner.

Never got this. Why is Kupchak always the good guy but Jim Buss the bad? As if Kupchak has no bearing on any of the decisions made if not more. He's the basketball mind they defer to.

Fans need a scapegoat. Well, let me revise that: the simpletons do. I wouldn't say ALL fans are rabid, tin foil hat-wearing plebes, but every team does have their fair share. This being LA, the problem population is large to begin with, and when your team has won for so long, irrational expectations are set that much higher.

[kobeaki]

its crazy how quick people are to basically label mitch kupchak as a highly paid high profile yes man and jerry buss as an indifferent buffoon of an owner.

Are you referring to me? Cause I haven't seen any one make the characterizations you are describing... But some things we know, like kupchak is a fair and dutiful employee who's own job was threatened just recently ( blazers?)

We know that Jim has no business nor basketball training and also typically in the media acts very defensively , and we also know the way he parted with Ronnie Lester, Brian shaw , the equipment managers , and scouts that had been with organization in some cases 20 year or so.

We know that Jim buss. In 2011 with nearly full control of the basketball side of the business cleaned out any one within the org who be loyal to Phil Jackson., or not loyal to jimmy. This is well known.

We also know that Jerry will do anything he can for children first and the lakers second... And by taking Jim's side he is protecting his son.

We also know there has been a power struggle between Phil and the buss going back to 1999-2000... The most famous of which caused Jerry west to resign/ retire.

We also know that in the ascendcy of jimmy, he has been shedding his dads consiglieres as quick as he can... Kareem, magic, etc many lakers living legends who were once synonymous with the lakers are no longer in that position...

So yes, dcash, there's is precedent , and lots of history , especially in regards to jimmy to make a fair assumption that he trying to re-build the org in the way he sees fit.

[MensRea]

its crazy how quick people are to basically label mitch kupchak as a highly paid high profile yes man and jerry buss as an indifferent buffoon of an owner.

Never got this. Why is Kupchak always the good guy but Jim Buss the bad? As if Kupchak has no bearing on any of the decisions made if not more. He's the basketball mind they defer to.

I guess you haven't been around long enough to remember all the 'Kill Kupchak' nonsense that went on in the past... Before the emergence of Jim Buss, Mitch used to get regularly called incompetent, stupid, and just generally single-handedly responsible for the systematic dismantling of the great Lakers franchise...

If anyone should be asking how his ass taste, it's Mitch...

To be fair...he was all of those things.

He gave Luke Walton 30 million dollars. That really happened.
He gave Vladimir Radmanovich 30 million dollars. That also happened
He gave Sasha Vujacic similar money (don't remember off the top of my head)
He traded Caron Butler for Kwame Brown (this happened).

Sure he got better, but all the criticism he got at the time was well earned. Make no mistake about it.

[MensRea]

its crazy how quick people are to basically label mitch kupchak as a highly paid high profile yes man and jerry buss as an indifferent buffoon of an owner.

Never got this. Why is Kupchak always the good guy but Jim Buss the bad? As if Kupchak has no bearing on any of the decisions made if not more. He's the basketball mind they defer to.

I get he overreactions, and they are somewhat justified. Jim Buss has stated over and over again that he is not a basketball mind. Therefore, he should have no business being on his own to make any basketball decision. Yet, he, and he alone, was the only person in the room during Mike Dunleavy's interview. Granted, that should have been a sign to Mike that he was never a serious candidate, but when an individual who's had a sugary spoon up his ass all his life and admitted that he has no idea making basketball decisions is entrusted with the final word in personnel decisions, I can excuse fans being a little freaked out about it.

I mean, Mike Brown impressed the hell out of him and tricked Jim Buss into hiring him as coach and giving him 18 million dollars to do it.

It's never fun knowing the people in charge of making the hard decisions in your favorite franchise can be tricked by the likes of Mike Brown.

[Mirjalovic]

as for the title, that remind me to "Moon River" song, i don't know why.

its crazy how quick people are to basically label mitch kupchak as a highly paid high profile yes man and jerry buss as an indifferent buffoon of an owner.

Never got this. Why is Kupchak always the good guy but Jim Buss the bad? As if Kupchak has no bearing on any of the decisions made if not more. He's the basketball mind they defer to.

for the first time in my life, i agree with you.

[kobeaki]

To be fair...he was all of those things.

He gave Luke Walton 30 million dollars. That really happened.
He gave Vladimir Radmanovich 30 million dollars. That also happened
He gave Sasha Vujacic similar money (don't remember off the top of my head)
He traded Caron Butler for Kwame Brown (this happened).

Sure he got better, but all the criticism he got at the time was well earned. Make no mistake about it.[/quote][/quote][/quote]
Luke and vladi at the times of the signings were fair market values for the types of players at that time...