Curious to see Mike Datoni Offense Now

[Shivman]

I watched almost every game of the MDA era in Phoenix, so I know his system well. I am posting this thread because there is a lot of misconceptions about Mike's system.

Nash - Offensively, everything starts with him. Under Mike he will have the ball in his hands a majority of the time, which is a good thing, he is statistically the most efficient offensive player of all time. He constantly probes defenses with his live dribble, and will always find the open man off of a PnR. When he passes the ball to a player they will either go up for the shot, or they will pass it back to him. That is the way this system works. If the ball stagnates the defense has a chance to reset and it bogs down the whole system, and ball stopping will not be accepted by Mike.

Dwight - Will fill the Ama're role as the primary PnR man working the 2 man game with Nash to perfection. He will draw attention from the entire opposing team into the paint and free up at least 3 shooters who are spotting up for wide open shots.

Pau - Will fill the Boris Diaw role as the high post/elbow passer. Pau will be great in this role, defenses will collapse on Dwight and leave him free for the jumper. If they come back out at Pau he can throw an oop to Dwight or a pass to a wide open spot up shooter.

Kobe - Will be a hybrid of the JRich/Joe Johnson/Grant Hill role. Leaks out on fast breaks, cuts into the lane, hits open shots, and gets an occasional post up opportunity. He will have to relinquish some of his ball handling duties for this system to work, otherwise it will limit the effectiveness of the system. With less offensive responsibility it can allow him to play tough defense on opposing point guards like Westbrook and allow the team to hide Nash on the shooting guard.

Metta - I see Metta suffering most in Mike's system, and he will be relegated to mostly spot up 3's on offense. He has played this role before in the Triangle however and won a championship that way. If he tries to stop the ball Mike will have a short hook on him. Personally I'd like to see him go back to the bench and have Meeks start as a floor spacer, and allow Metta to do more with the 2nd unit.

Bench:

Hill - Will be able to spell Dwight's backup center minutes with ease. He is a great safety net in case of foul trouble, and runs the PnR well.

Jamison - Will benefit from this system as well, he will become a stretch 4, and play the role that Tim Thomas played for the suns. Lots of wide open 3's for him.

Meeks - Could benefit most from this system. He will be asked to play the Eddie House/James Jones floor spacer role. This is exactly how he should be used and he will see a tremendous amount of wide open 3's. I would consider starting him and putting Kobe at the 3 for better floor spacing if Metta tries to derail the offense.

Duhon - Should take over backup point duties from Blake. He knows the system, and is a superior play maker then Blake is. He flourished under Mike with the Knicks averaging 11 and 7 per game.


Blake/Ebanks/Clark - 9 deep is really all that the team needs to go, just let the bench guys play multiple positions, and the rest of the guys will only be counted on if there is an injury or foul trouble.

[BEazy]

Insightful. Appreciate it

[NOODLESTYLE]

damn 15 posts in and OP already got waived!

[Slava]

If you are a previously banned poster, it would make minimal sense to put in an effort to not choose the same username.

Edit: *Twice

[iamworthy]

[richboy]

The biggest issue I see is with Gasol. Mike D likes stretch 4s. He likes guys at the 4 who can shoot the 3 ball. Now Gasol is probably a better shooter than Shawn Marion. It still not really his game and he may check out if he constantly spotting up while Nash and Dwight run PNR. If it doesn't work early I think we could see Gasol traded. Gasol for Ryan Anderson/Austin Rivers/Robin Lopez anyone?

No, no, no, no, no. You are getting it all wrong. If you will remember Boris Diaw was often the 4 for the suns when D'antoni was the coach there, Boris was never a stretch 4. This is the role that Pau will be able to play to perfection. Getting the ball at the high post, shooting wide open jumpers at the elbow, throwing oops to Dwight, and hitting spot up shooters when the defense collapses. It's the role that he was born to play. The only stretch 4 that D'Antoni ever had with Phoenix was Tim Thomas, and he only played because Ama're was injured that year.

The one I am more worried about is Kobe, will he fall in line and fill the JRich/JJ/Grant Hill role, or will he try and play ISO hero ball and bog down the offense a la Melo in NY?

Boris Diaw best season was the year Amare was out. Diaw was not the 4 he was the center on those teams.

If you don't have a stretch 4 in MIke D system you can cheat as a defense. That why the stretch 4 is important. Without a stretch 4 a team can trap the PNR and just leave the bad shooting 4 open. When you surround the PNR with shooters you can't cheat. Last year with the Knicks there PNR with Amare sucked because Tyson Chandler man would just cheat on the PNR. The Knicks had to make Tyson Chandler the center of the PNR and Amare became like a stretch 4 for them. Now Gasol isn't a bad shooter and he can actually play the role. The issue is if he really wants to play that style. He is much more talented than what the 4 position ask in Mike D system.

[Jajwanda]

It's really not that complicated. Gasol runs the P and P with Howard moving off ball. Either Gasol gives the ball to him, he attacks the offensive rebound, or he gets the pass from Nash on his cut.

[andrewww]

tbh watching the 2007 playoffs, phx probably should have been the champ imho if it werent the big shot bob/nash incident, they were much like the 2002 kings (underrated defensively) with key guys like bell and especially marion who i felt was the guy that made the phx system work because he was able to defend both 3s and 4s effectively, not to mention being a great finisher and spot up 3 pt shooter.

gasol is now the clear elephant in the room, woulnt be surprised to see him traded and there was a great trade proposal on LG (gasol for gallo/chandler) which i would make in a heartbeat if im mitch, but am not sure denver wants to part w/ gallo.

kobe i can envision playing an expanded joe johnson role.

[Father Time]

tbh watching the 2007 playoffs, phx probably should have been the champ imho if it werent the big shot bob/nash incident, they were much like the 2002 kings (underrated defensively) with key guys like bell and especially marion who i felt was the guy that made the phx system work because he was able to defend both 3s and 4s effectively, not to mention being a great finisher and spot up 3 pt shooter.

gasol is now the clear elephant in the room, woulnt be surprised to see him traded and there was a great trade proposal on LG (gasol for gallo/chandler) which i would make in a heartbeat if im mitch, but am not sure denver wants to part w/ gallo.

kobe i can envision playing an expanded joe johnson role.

Plus Gasol would be a hideous fit with Denver's transition game.

[andrewww]

tbh watching the 2007 playoffs, phx probably should have been the champ imho if it werent the big shot bob/nash incident, they were much like the 2002 kings (underrated defensively) with key guys like bell and especially marion who i felt was the guy that made the phx system work because he was able to defend both 3s and 4s effectively, not to mention being a great finisher and spot up 3 pt shooter.

gasol is now the clear elephant in the room, woulnt be surprised to see him traded and there was a great trade proposal on LG (gasol for gallo/chandler) which i would make in a heartbeat if im mitch, but am not sure denver wants to part w/ gallo.

kobe i can envision playing an expanded joe johnson role.

Plus Gasol would be a hideous fit with Denver's transition game.

ideally, we package gasol for 3 pt shooters at both SF and PF, those would be the biggest needs to effectively run the kind of offense people want to see similar to those nash led-suns.

i can really see morris playing an effective backup to steve nash, not really sure duhon/blake fit because both dont really offer a single skill set that is above average.

[DEEP3CL]

I've been all over these boards that last few days, just want to say it's a cluster of dumb maggots. Guys are 100% sure MD will be running his system to an exact tee like he did his previous teams. Just gonna sit back and watch it unfold.

[dingclancy]

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK5yjAos7vI&feature=plcp Bballbreakdown, well breaks it down.

[Patman]

If you don't have a stretch 4 in MIke D system you can cheat as a defense. That why the stretch 4 is important. Without a stretch 4 a team can trap the PNR and just leave the bad shooting 4 open. When you surround the PNR with shooters you can't cheat. Last year with the Knicks there PNR with Amare sucked because Tyson Chandler man would just cheat on the PNR. The Knicks had to make Tyson Chandler the center of the PNR and Amare became like a stretch 4 for them. Now Gasol isn't a bad shooter and he can actually play the role. The issue is if he really wants to play that style. He is much more talented than what the 4 position ask in Mike D system.

It can work with the Lakers personnel w/o a true stretch 4.

Pau doesn't have to be at the 3-pt line. If you run PnR with Nash/Dwight and Gasol's man cheats, then Pau can just move to the high post/elbow. If he receives a pass there, then he can make that shot or pass out of it. If not, he can set a screen for Kobe, who cuts to the rim on the other side of the PnR action. The 5th man will be in the opposite corner for a kick-out option. Nash can make that baseline skip pass beautifully, if that's the best look. Nash will usually select the best one. =)

You can also run a Nash/Pau PnR, which is a bit of a different look. Pau doesn't have to roll all the time, so you can have that Stockton/Malone type of action. You can have Pau just pop and take an open shot from where he sets a high screen. Dwight will be mid-range baseline on the opposite side. If Pau rolls and Dwight's man comes over to double, as Dwight is not a shooting threat, Dwight just cuts in for a lob pass.

[GAME TIME]

The only player that I'm worry about with Dan Tony is Pau. I don't want him to be a stretch 4. He needs to be involved in the offense taking it to the rim or posting up.

[Sedale Threatt]

He already is kind of a stretch four. He's taken just as many shots from 16-23 feet as the rim over the past two seasons. Not the best role for him, but it's hard to be posting up multiple guys at the same time (Bynum/Howard, Bryant, even Ron at times), and his shot is just good enough. My bigger concern is the lack of 3-point shooters.

[Patman]

The only player that I'm worry about with Dan Tony is Pau. I don't want him to be a stretch 4. He needs to be involved in the offense taking it to the rim or posting up.

He'll be involved. D'Antoni isn't really a "system" guy, it's more of a philosophy. He likes to give everyone touches, and he likes to give them touches where they're most comfortable. Everybody will get theirs, have faith.

I think they will run a hybrid offense. You can have Pau post up on one-side, and if that's denied, then you swing it to the other side for a Nash/Dwight PnR. And it works vice-versa too.

[Jajwanda]

That's basically a free-flowing triangle.

[Kalidogg24]

Right Click and open picture in a new tab to get full image.

[The Laker Kid]

I'm excited. Showtime is back!!