Race to the MVP.

MaliBrah · Post #321 » by **MaliBrah** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:54 pm

ahh ,fair enough ,didn't see that

TheGarden · Post #322 » by **TheGarden** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:57 pm

KDgoat wrote:
TheGarden wrote:LeBron is a creator by nature, he'd rather fill the stat sheet than be the recipient of a teammate's pass, if he had it his way he'd average 15/15/15 but he cant

Stat sheet stuffers don't win rings as the alpha male on the team. They get bounced in the first round.

It's disrespectful to call Lebron just that.

What separates Lebron from Durant and Melo is that Lebron is a team player. It's not that Durant and Melo are scorers/rebounders first, while Lebron is a stat sheet stuffer. Lebron can do anything Melo and Durant can do, only some things he can perform significantly better than either of them. That's the difference. He's not an inferior scorer, nor an inferior rebounder, he's a better facilitator, defender and floor general.

He'd rather do everything good instead of being a great scorer or great passer or whatever.

Why do you think he went to play with 2 other #1 options, he wants to differ and be Magic like not Jordan like the problem is taking the ball out of his hands makes his useless, its a catch 22

LeBron and Rondo are similar players when you think about it, get their guys involved, defend, rebound and run the difference is LeBron had 7 inches and about 60 pounds on Rondo

kamelion4291 · Post #323 » by **kamelion4291** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:00 pm

TheGarden wrote:
KDgoat wrote:
TheGarden wrote:LeBron is a creator by nature, he'd rather fill the stat sheet than be the recipient of a teammate's pass, if he had it his way he'd average 15/15/15 but he cant

Stat sheet stuffers don't win rings as the alpha male on the team. They get bounced in the first round.

It's disrespectful to call Lebron just that.

What separates Lebron from Durant and Melo is that Lebron is a team player. It's not that Durant and Melo are scorers/rebounders first, while Lebron is a stat sheet stuffer. Lebron can do anything Melo and Durant can do, only some things he can perform significantly better than either of them. That's the difference. He's not an inferior scorer, nor an inferior rebounder, he's a better facilitator, defender and floor general.

He'd rather do everything good instead of being a great scorer or great passer or whatever.

Why do you think he went to play with 2 other #1 options, he wants to differ and be Magic like not Jordan like the problem is taking the ball out of his hands makes his useless, its a catch 22

LeBron and Rondo are similar players when you think about it, get their guys involved, defend, rebound and run the difference is LeBron had 7 inches and about 60 pounds on Rondo

Except LeBron is a much, much better shooter and since he's come to Miami, he's also much better off the ball than when he was in Cleveland. I still don't know how you don't consider him a "great" scorer at this point.

Joao Saraiva · Post #324 » by **Joao Saraiva** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:12 pm

LeBron and Rondo are the same?! Say whaaaat? Man I want some of what you're smoking!

LeBron can post up. LeBron can move off the ball and get in a lot of positions near the basket to score. LeBron can go crazy from 3 a lot of times! Come on... Rondo is defended near the FT line!

I don't mean to take anything away from Rondo he still is awesome but don't say he's like LBJ but only shorter!

osamu · Post #325 » by **osamu** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:29 pm

TheGarden wrote:
KDgoat wrote:
TheGarden wrote:LeBron is a creator by nature, he'd rather fill the stat sheet than be the recipient of a teammate's pass, if he had it his way he'd average 15/15/15 but he cant

Stat sheet stuffers don't win rings as the alpha male on the team. They get bounced in the first round.

It's disrespectful to call Lebron just that.

What separates Lebron from Durant and Melo is that Lebron is a team player. It's not that Durant and Melo are scorers/rebounders first, while Lebron is a stat sheet stuffer. Lebron can do anything Melo and Durant can do, only some things he can perform significantly better than either of them. That's the difference. He's not an inferior scorer, nor an inferior rebounder, he's a better facilitator, defender and floor general.

He'd rather do everything good instead of being a great scorer or great passer or whatever.

Why do you think he went to play with 2 other #1 options, he wants to differ and be Magic like not Jordan like the problem is taking the ball out of his hands makes his useless, its a catch 22

LeBron and Rondo are similar players when you think about it, get their guys involved, defend, rebound and run the difference is LeBron had 7 inches and about 60 pounds on Rondo

What's wrong with you? Lebron is one of the most efficient scorers in this league. What makes him so great is the fact that he does other things very well too. He went to play with other #1 options instead of who? Mo Williams? Jamison? If you think Rondo is comparable to James your nuts.

KGboss · Post #326 » by **KGboss** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:42 pm

Someone says a guy is similar to someones play style and they take that as saying the two players are the same.

That's RealGM for you.

kamelion4291 · Post #327 » by **kamelion4291** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:53 pm

KGboss wrote:Someone says a guy is similar to someones play style and they take that as saying the two players are the same.

That's RealGM for you.

Rajon Rondo has a similar playstyle with Omer Asik.

When you post to say otherwise, I will just say "That's RealGM for you." It's equivalent.

starvinmarvin17 · Post #328 » by **starvinmarvin17** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:04 pm

Garden ur crazy isnt lebron like top 5 all time in ppg

Ikcelaks · Post #329 » by **Ikcelaks** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:10 pm

KGboss wrote:Someone says a guy is similar to someones play style and they take that as saying the two players are the same.

That's RealGM for you.

The problem is that their playing styles are very, very different.

LeBron is an elite scorer first. When he has the ball, he's always his own first option. If the defense doesn't do anything about it, he'll go for 40+. When the defense inevitably slants their attention his way, he uses his elite court sense and passing to make a play for someone else. For LeBron, it's unquestionably his scoring (or threat thereof) that leads to his fascilitating. For Rondo, that's reversed.

RutgersBJJ · Post #330 » by **RutgersBJJ** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:19 pm

Just like with Jordan, we already had the one fluke non-deserving winner of MVP because people felt like giving it to someone else. Lebron probably has this on lock for a long time. Every writer in America should admit that Lebron was the MVP in 10-11 and they robbed him of that award because he was a colossal douche-bag.

toodles23 · Post #331 » by **toodles23** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:42 pm

TheGarden wrote:He'd rather do everything good instead of being a great scorer or great passer or whatever.

Why do you think he went to play with 2 other #1 options, he wants to differ and be Magic like not Jordan like the problem is taking the ball out of his hands makes his useless, its a catch 22

LeBron and Rondo are similar players when you think about it, get their guys involved, defend, rebound and run the difference is LeBron had 7 inches and about 60 pounds on Rondo

This is downright (Please Use More Appropriate Word). Didn't we just watch Lebron win a ring while leading the playoffs in scoring? The guy is 3rd all time in ppg, and does so on high efficiency - dude's biggest strength, by FAR, is his ability to score.

Ikcelaks wrote:The problem is that their playing styles are very, very different.

LeBron is an elite scorer first. When he has the ball, he's always his own first option. If the defense doesn't do anything about it, he'll go for 40+. When the defense inevitably slants their attention his way, he uses his elite court sense and passing to make a play for someone else. For LeBron, it's unquestionably his scoring (or threat thereof) that leads to his fascilitating. For Rondo, that's reversed.

Pretty much this.

C-izMe · Post #332 » by **C-izMe** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:46 pm

RutgersBJJ wrote:Just like with Jordan, we already had the one fluke non-deserving winner of MVP because people felt like giving it to someone else. Lebron probably has this on lock for a long time. Every writer in America should admit that Lebron wasn't the MVP in 10-11 and he shouldn't have won because Wade was just as good as him, Rose overachieved, Lebron underachieved, Dirk was the best player in basketball, and Dwight was more valuable. There is no way Lebron deserved a MVP while being the 2nd/3rd best player in basketball while playing on the same team as the 2nd/3rd best player in basketball and playing not that great for half the season.

Fixed.

Dupp · Post #333 » by **Dupp** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:55 pm

^ I think Lebron certainly got punished that year by changing sides and playing with wade. He probably could have won. He was certainly better than rose though rose isnt undeserving as some say. Howard didnt have the team record and dirk missed too many games. I do think if dirk was healthy the mavs would have had anohter 6 wins and he is the mvp winner. Wade wasnt AS good as lebron but he was still very very good. It was strange year, kinda weak which is why someone like rose come up and won it before peopel expected him too.

mademan · Post #334 » by **mademan** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:11 pm

C-izMe wrote:
RutgersBJJ wrote:Just like with Jordan, we already had the one fluke non-deserving winner of MVP because people felt like giving it to someone else. Lebron probably has this on lock for a long time. Every writer in America should admit that Lebron wasn't the MVP in 10-11 and he shouldn't have won because Wade was just as good as him, Rose overachieved, Lebron underachieved, Dirk was the best player in basketball, and Dwight was more valuable. There is no way Lebron deserved a MVP while being the 2nd/3rd best player in basketball while playing on the same team as the 2nd/3rd best player in basketball and playing not that great for half the season.

Fixed.

LMAO. Lebron was clearly, clearly the best player in 2011. Dirk had a hot stretch to end the season, but overall ( over a 90+ game sample) nobody played better than Lebron. Lebron scored more, passed better and rebounded better than Wade all while playing better (elite) defense and shooting a better percentage. Dirk shot incredibly hot for 10 or so games but was mediocre ( for his standards) the rest of the time. Rose shouldn't be mentioned but I agree that Dwight has a good case for being more valuable to his team.

Post #335 » by **og15** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:29 pm

nmabdi28 wrote:
C-izMe wrote:
xStanton27 wrote:
They will never be as talented facilitating their team as Lebron. His court vision is incredible.

Lebron can't facilitate like Magic so he's not a team player.

so if you cant facilitate like magic you're not a team player? ahhh alright

The poster before him basically said that Durant and Melo are not team players because they can't pass like Lebron, seemed like he was just taking the comment to the next level. It's obviously a wrong statement to say that they aren't team players because he's better than them as a passer.

j_angel wrote:Lebron is certainly on track to win it again. Do not see anyone who can remain as consistent as him.

On another note I think Rondo will finish highest point guard in voting and maybe top 5.

So far he is averaging:
15.4 ~ 5.1 ~ 12.9 with over 2 steals per game.
+ assist streak is going strong.
+ Boston should be top 3 in East (depends on Rose & NYK)

If he can level can get his scoring up, even a couple of FTs or another bucket a game, and maintain his assists he should be up there.
Has the potential to go 17/6/13. Whether he will get close to this or not is yet to be seen.

Rondo has been pretty good. Rocking high minutes though at 40.7, so we'll see how they manage that the rest of the way. Per 36 he's at 13.6/4.5/11.4/2, so only thing above last season is scoring which is good because it's mainly because he's been much more efficient so far.

C-izMe · Post #336 » by **C-izMe** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:30 pm

How about we ignore that Lebron had his worst season since 07 that year and that he lost the Finals by himself and focus on Dirk and Wade.

The Mavericks were 55-18 with Dirk (2-7 without him). In the regular season he put up 23/7/2.5 on 61TS. He was the best offensive player in basketball and allowed them to play completely defensive lineups (Kidd/Stevenson/Marion/Dirk/Chandler) while still being 8th overall offensively.

In the regular season until he missed 9 games about halfway in the season he was first for MVP along with Rose according to most. He missed only 9 games but won 55 games anyway.

Post #337 » by **og15** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:41 pm

TheGarden wrote:
KDgoat wrote:
TheGarden wrote:LeBron is a creator by nature, he'd rather fill the stat sheet than be the recipient of a teammate's pass, if he had it his way he'd average 15/15/15 but he cant

Stat sheet stuffers don't win rings as the alpha male on the team. They get bounced in the first round.

It's disrespectful to call Lebron just that.

What separates Lebron from Durant and Melo is that Lebron is a team player. It's not that Durant and Melo are scorers/rebounders first, while Lebron is a stat sheet stuffer. Lebron can do anything Melo and Durant can do, only some things he can perform significantly better than either of them. That's the difference. He's not an inferior scorer, nor an inferior rebounder, he's a better facilitator, defender and floor general.

He'd rather do everything good instead of being a great scorer or great passer or whatever.

Why do you think he went to play with 2 other #1 options, he wants to differ and be Magic like not Jordan like the problem is taking the ball out of his hands makes his useless, its a catch 22

LeBron and Rondo are similar players when you think about it, get their guys involved, defend, rebound and run the difference is LeBron had 7 inches and about 60 pounds on Rondo

He's not deferring, he's both the lead scorer and lead playmaker on the team, just has better teammates now. I think it proves even more how much of a scorer he is that he went to a team with guys who were first options and/or primary ball handlers and became the first option and primary ball handler. The idea that he is more of a passer and wants to defer would have been solidified if on Miami, he started scoring less and passing more, instead his scoring basically stayed the same and his playmaking in terms of assist output didn't even match what he was doing in Cleveland.

Larry Bird is a better comparison for Lebron in terms of ability to both score and pass. Being a willing and capable passer is not the equivalent of being someone who primarily to pass. It's just simply being good at both.

Lebron's scoring opens up his passing, that's how you know which is the primary trait. A guy like Rondo, teams will try to make him score, that's how you know that his playmaking is his primary attribute, not to mention that he hasn't even reached 15 PPG in the regular season in his career and has a playoff high of 17 PPG. And Rondo is a better passer than Lebron anyways.

mademan · Post #338 » by **mademan** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:12 am

C-izMe wrote:How about we ignore that Lebron had his worst season since 07 that year and that he lost the Finals by himself and focus on Dirk and Wade.

The Mavericks were 55-18 with Dirk (2-7 without him). In the regular season he put up 23/7/2.5 on 61TS. He was the best offensive player in basketball and allowed them to play completely defensive lineups (Kidd/Stevenson/Marion/Dirk/Chandler) while still being 8th overall offensively.

In the regular season until he missed 9 games about halfway in the season he was first for MVP along with Rose according to most. He missed only 9 games but won 55 games anyway.

23/7 are not MVP numbers. He was more efficient than Lebron (barely) they rebounded the same while Lebron actually played elite defense. Even if it was Lebrons worst season, he still led the league in PER. The only reason Lebron didn't win the award was because of the narrative the media loves so much.

Heats_Finest · Post #339 » by **Heats_Finest** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:36 am

You know what's just as astonishing with Lebron's #'s. Is that he has the 13th highest usage rate in the NBA. Which means he doesn't have the ball in his hands near as much as some guys like Melo, Westbrook number 1 and 2 respectively. Durant is at #25!!! That just proves how much of a detriment Westbrook is to Durant, no way should he be at #25.

C-izMe · Post #340 » by **C-izMe** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:57 am

mademan wrote:
C-izMe wrote:How about we ignore that Lebron had his worst season since 07 that year and that he lost the Finals by himself and focus on Dirk and Wade.

The Mavericks were 55-18 with Dirk (2-7 without him). In the regular season he put up 23/7/2.5 on 61TS. He was the best offensive player in basketball and allowed them to play completely defensive lineups (Kidd/Stevenson/Marion/Dirk/Chandler) while still being 8th overall offensively.

In the regular season until he missed 9 games about halfway in the season he was first for MVP along with Rose according to most. He missed only 9 games but won 55 games anyway.

23/7 are not MVP numbers. He was more efficient than Lebron (barely) they rebounded the same while Lebron actually played elite defense. Even if it was Lebrons worst season, he still led the league in PER. The only reason Lebron didn't win the award was because of the narrative the media loves so much.

So because he didn't meet your arbitrary numbers he couldn't get it? What about Dwight. He had a better regular season.