Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher

[og15]

"Has been turned"; bad grammar. Lin is much better than fisher, but Harden is too ball dominate so it's expected for him to be a bystander.

You can't be the grammar police then use dominate in place of dominant, unless auto correct got you.

Explain please.

My "logic" is that he said we judged him on 2 weeks. I said he's been in and out of the league for two years. We've had more than a 2 week window to judge him. He was mediocre enough to get cut multiple times by multiple teams (including the rockets), then he had an awesome few weeks in a system that makes any PG awesome, and now he's mediocre again.

The system doesn't make any PG awesome, it makes PG's with a certain skill set more productive, but still limited by their overall talent level. Lin's all round game, defense, and even turnover rate has been good, only issue is shooting and scoring. The way he's getting steals though is pretty good. He really hasn't been that bad to get these posts

[CU_NY09]

It's only been 7 games but if this is the identity the Rockets are taking on, then they're in trouble. Of the two, Harden is better off the ball and a better spot up shooter but they're making Lin play that role. Harden is a good playmaker but Lin is the better playmaker of the two, but Harden has taken on that role. It's as if Lin is playing SG and Harden PG. Yes, Harden is and should be the #1 option/scorer but that doesn't mean that he needs to be the primary ball handler/playmaker too.

The ball should be in Lin's hands (more than it is now) so he can feed Harden the ball in spot up situations/cuts. The coaching staff is not using Lin effectively by spotting him up behind the 3pt line.

[postcall]

It's only been 7 games but if this is the identity the Rockets are taking on, then they're in trouble. Of the two, Harden is better off the ball and a better spot up shooter but they're making Lin play that role. Harden is a good playmaker but Lin is the better playmaker of the two, but Harden has taken on that role. It's as if Lin is playing SG and Harden PG. Yes, Harden is and should be the #1 option/scorer but that doesn't mean that he needs to be the primary ball handler/playmaker too.

The ball should be in Lin's hands (more than it is now) so he can feed Harden the ball in spot up situations/cuts. The coaching staff is not using Lin effectively by spotting him up behind the 3pt line.

The Rockets coaching staff confirmed that they want Harden being the primary playmaker and they want Lin deferring to him as opposed to being aggressive or looking for the open guy. Basically they want Lin to be a spot up shooter as opposed to a playmaker. They need to just trade the guy if that is how they plan to utilize him. Lin is not Novak and the Rockets staff are awful.

[phoenixx]

Linsanity cannot coexist with Harden.

[CU_NY09]

Linsanity cannot coexist with Harden.

Lin and Harden can co-exist, they played off each other well in the first two games. It'll take some time, we're 7 games into the season.

As long as the coaching staff stops parking Lin at the 3pt line, they'll be fine.

[sirdeadcat]

Linsanity cannot coexist with Harden.

Lin and Harden can co-exist, they played off each other well in the first two games. It'll take some time, we're 7 games into the season.

As long as the coaching staff stops parking Lin at the 3pt line, they'll be fine.

This.

Jeremy Lin has been averaging close to 7 assist with one of the lowest usage rate among eligible point guards. Lower than even Tony freaking Douglas. That's criminal. Meanwhile James Harden is posting the highest usage rate among all SGs, higher than Kobe while averaging as many turnovers as assists (4.6).

Its obvious what's going on. The rockets coaching staff for whatever reason, decided that James harden ought to be playing point while Jeremy Lin plays SG. Their stupidity is baffling. Funny how Lin and Harden's best games were the first two, before their coaching staff had the opportunity to "coach". Lin's usage rate drastically dropped down starting from the third game, and both players been suffering ever since.

[BaYBaller]

The lack of basketball knowledge in this thread is staggering...

Lin is doing outstanding given his usage rate outside of his shooting. The dude is giving you rebounding, steals, and a good A/TO ratio. His FG% is down simply because it's quite clear he is not looking for his shot at all, only taking shots when he is wide open or opportune situations like on the break. It's obvious their offensive schemes are part of the reason, but also because Lin hasn't been aggressive at all. Obviously the coaches aren't telling Lin NOT to be aggressive when he does get the ball.

Lin will get more comfortable in the offense and look for his shot more as the season progresses. And if Harden ever sits, Lin will blow up in those games. What happened to Lin last year is the exact same thing that is happening to Jrue Holiday as we speak, he got the keys to the offense (read: high usage rate) and just ran with it. When your usage rate is high you're gonna put up numbers, but you're also going to have high TOs (again, look at Jrue Holiday's TOs this season...). Hmmm... high TOs... now doesn't that criticism sound familiar?

If this is really the general consensus on Lin... word to the wise, lowball the hell out of Lin in your fantasy league. That is straight up easy money.

[SunsRback4Good]

12/6/4 so far isn't exactly bad. People like to criticize Lin way too quickly. With all said and done, he will average 16/7/4 and yet most will still call him a bust.

[Durant Durant]

[quote="Tubal"]

I think the point is, Lin has been in/out of the league for 2-3 years. He had a magical few weeks in NY in D'Antoni's PG system, and now he's back to normal. It's not like we've only seen him play for 2 two week periods. We've seen him play and get cut from teams for 2 years now.

Golden State sent him to the D-League 3 times. Houston signed him and cut him, NY signed him and was GOING to cut him until Davis went down, and the rest is history.

That's a bit misleading considering that he did not play consistent major minutes during his stint in Golden State and didn't even play any reg season games with Houston the first time around. For a more fair judgement we should look at games where he has played significant minutes regularly which would be last season with the Knicks and the beginning of this one with Houston.

You can look at a myriad of different players who didn't produce much in their first few seasons and then developed/broke out later on. It's still too early to tell with Lin.

good pts Grinditout. haters just put on their blindfolds, fling poo all over the place and hope one sticks.

like the post you responded to. the poster tried to sound very knowledgeable and convincing but his logic is all over the place. lol

Explain please.

My "logic" is that he said we judged him on 2 weeks. I said he's been in and out of the league for two years. We've had more than a 2 week window to judge him. He was mediocre enough to get cut multiple times by multiple teams (including the rockets), then he had an awesome few weeks in a system that makes any PG awesome, and now he's mediocre again.

Mediocre? They never gave him the chance. He was the 3rd guard with the GSW, ditto with Rockets. With the latter because he was not owed money he got cut before he played 1 reg game. How the heck you speak of him that he was like averaging 20mins per game and sucked? Well they gave him that 20mins in NY looked what happened.

He's like averaging 12ppg, 7apg, 3stls, 5 rpg in 2 weeks, and you write him off now? Is that logical? No That's hate in my book.

And oh, majority of the haters in this board predict him to lead the league in turnovers. Is it now safe to say that wont happen in the 2 weeks hes been playing? Haters are willing to wait more than 2 weeks for that day but ready to write him off because of one freaking airball in a game nobody game them a chance to win anyways. Lmao get a life.

[13th Man]

Good post, totally agree.

Harden's first 2 games was the worst thing that could have happened to the Rockets. Those games propped Harden into "Superstar" territory which is totally ridiculous. All of the sudden, the entire organization is treating him as if he's Michael Jordan ISO'ing anytime he wishes, handling the ball 80% of the time, calling off plays set by the coach to be the hero etc . Management is much to blame for this, for giving him an over-inflated head.

How many times have we've been told as fans not to judge a player off of a few games or even 25 games (during Linsanity) yet Harden has turned into a superstar after 2 games? I realize he played at a high level with OKC coming off the bench last year but that was as a 6th man. You don't turn into a superstar from a 6th man overnight.

Anyway the Rockets backcourt is broken as of right now. Lin should be playing the point and setting up plays, not give the ball to Harden then park himself in the corner waiting to shoot 3's. I'm not making excuses for Lin here, he could and should be playing better as well but it's obvious that he's not as comfortable or at his best when he's forced to play out of his natural position.

I'm sure they'll work it out over time. Just right now the roles are definitely screwed up. If they insist on having Harden be the primary ball handler, maybe have Lin come off the bench then? Hate to say it but that would be more effective.

[kakaman]

Honestly, the Lakers have to call up Morey right now and try to get Jeremy Lin. We all saw what he did under D'Antoni, and he would have the opportunity to learn from Nash himself? It would instantly make the Lakers' bench a whole lot better. Houston has no idea how to use him properly.

[13th Man]

ooops, i meant to quote sirdeadcat's post here which I agree on :


"Jeremy Lin has been averaging close to 7 assist with one of the lowest usage rate among eligible point guards. Lower than even Tony freaking Douglas. That's criminal. Meanwhile James Harden is posting the highest usage rate among all SGs, higher than Kobe while averaging as many turnovers as assists (4.6).

Its obvious what's going on. The rockets coaching staff for whatever reason, decided that James harden ought to be playing point while Jeremy Lin plays SG. Their stupidity is baffling. Funny how Lin and Harden's best games were the first two, before their coaching staff had the opportunity to "coach". Lin's usage rate drastically dropped down starting from the third game, and both players been suffering ever since."

[jamesnamida]

more than half of it is on lin himself, stop just blaming the coaches.
he's been trying to drive after a pick and roll, and stops halfway ( around 18 feet from the basket) when he sees defenders, dribbles back to the 3 point line and passes to harden for him to try. He rarely trys to break his man or the inside defense anymore.
and he does look slower, might be the injury, but this version of Lin is terrible, since he can't shoot to save his life, he is useless as a spot up, and he is being too careful when he drives.
He's treating 3 pointers like a 15 foot jumpshot. A guy his size needs to shoot it like curry and nash, on the way up, not while he is already at the apex. It uses too much strength, curry and nash's shots are so easy and fluid


His D and passing is still fine though. His TO is down because of usage, thats all.
It's on him and the coaches, but mostly on him. And please don't bring up his mentality/ chinese culture, we all know he isn't the Beta type, he knows what he needs to do, and if he doesn't well he will just be bottom 10 starting point.

[BeasleyTheBeast]

Lin has 6 assists. Too many to be a Derek Fisher.

But yea, Houston is killing Lin's value every day

killing? I'm surprised they haven't benched him yet.

you sound like this reporter

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFXwHlBoj50[/youtube]

[13th Man]

.

[90sAllDecade]

It usually takes athletes two years to fully heal to where they were before a major knee surgery. He's still not back where he was and I wouldn't judge him until midway or late in the season.

As the Rockets gel over time and install more offensive sets, his numbers should improve. My biggest thing I'd like to see him do is draw more fouls, he shoots 90% from the line right now (Although this may be a by product of reduced explosiveness from his injury).

Regardless, he has to shoot a better percentage and hit threes consistently to keep teams from constantly double teaming Harden. He's doing everything else though, good rebounding, solid assists, great (top five I think) steal per game, as well as lower turnovers.

Check his games by the end of the season compared to early and I think we'll get a good idea of his ability.

[Krodis]

Lin has had plenty of opportunities to make plays with the ball, it's not like he's been playing exclusively off-ball. The Rockets need to install some plays to get Lin and Harden playing off each other more rather than just taking turns isolating.

[Flash3]

Honestly, the Lakers have to call up Morey right now and try to get Jeremy Lin. We all saw what he did under D'Antoni, and he would have the opportunity to learn from Nash himself? It would instantly make the Lakers' bench a whole lot better. Houston has no idea how to use him properly.

Adding Lin to already a mess of a team isn't going to do much for chemistry.

[amares goggles]

Jeez you guys are sure making a big deal out of one airball...

yeah but this was a really, really, really, really bad one. looked about 2 feet short.

[og15]

Lin has had plenty of opportunities to make plays with the ball, it's not like he's been playing exclusively off-ball. The Rockets need to install some plays to get Lin and Harden playing off each other more rather than just taking turns isolating.

Yea, the real issue is that they are using them as isolated pieces, not as a unit, but there's actually potential to use them as a unit, hopefully they figure it out, it's always nice to see teams figure out how to use their players together effectively.