James Harden is a superstar

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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#601 » by tsherkin » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:36 pm

ahonui06 wrote:Another good team and another poor performance from Harden. It's not looking good for Daryl Morey and the future of the Rockets franchise. It looks as though Harden doesn't have the clutch abilities to take over a game down the stretch and put his team on his back.


Well, he certainly isn't looking like a transcendental scorer, but he's still getting to the line and finishing there very well while drawing a ton of fouls, which is promising. He needs to round out his game, and in a hurry, because he's on the court longer and with a lot less help than to which he's accustomed. It's still early. Right now, we've learned that he's not MJ, but not a ton besides that.

Morey didn't do a particularly good job, no. It looks like he aimed high and screwed up. Lin is looking like a mistake (although it's as early for him as for Harden and he's coming off of knee surgery) and the frontcourt is just a DISASTER. I'd like to see Houston not sucking majorly at positions not related to James Harden before we get too clear a grip on what's happening. There is a trend emerging, but we're still not deep enough into the season to really firmly say anything, and even this whole season is still an experimental season because of the major situational shift between last season and this year.

Again though, against the Heat, Harden looked reasonable for a while. He played decent ball through three, but as per usual this season, he couldn't get his three-point shot going and he wasn't willing or able to go to mid-range looks, it's always rim, three or bust with him, with very little variation. If and when he successfully opens up the mid-range for himself, then we'll see him start to have at least a little more success, even with the dog-poop roster Morey has put around him.

The fourth was a bit weird for him. He entered with a little under 6 minutes to go. Grabbed a defensive board, committed a shooting foul on Bosh, missed a 3, had a couple of assists on 3Ps, missed another three, missed a shot from close to the rim and then missed a bomb as time expired. He was able to create three points, missed a shot in the paint and was a zero from downtown. His scoring ability just wasn't there at the end of the game and that's unfortunate. He was 5/11 under the arc and 1/6 from downtown. He drew 11 FTA against those 17 shots, which is a hair shy of 0.65 FTA/FGA and is VERY good (especially since he hit 9 of them). He passed well, didn't turn it over a ton... but with him, Lin and Delfino struggling, Parsons, Patterson and Asik (14 FTA? WTF?) kept them in this thing until the end. I know why Harden is struggling from 3, but it's systemic, that's not going to change any time soon, so he needs to shift his MO a little bit and find some closer shots that he can hit a little more reliably. Honestly, even his boogly 37-38% shots from like 18 feet would be better options than bricking it from 3 as he has so far.

We'll see what happens. At 10 games, we'll have at least a moderately acceptable sample to start thinking about this discussion a little more, but again, so much has changed between the situation where he was successful and now that it's difficult to make sweeping statements this early in the season. Especially when he's showing that he's still staggeringly elite at getting to and finishing at the rim.
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#602 » by ahonui06 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:15 pm

tsherkin wrote:
ahonui06 wrote:Another good team and another poor performance from Harden. It's not looking good for Daryl Morey and the future of the Rockets franchise. It looks as though Harden doesn't have the clutch abilities to take over a game down the stretch and put his team on his back.


Well, he certainly isn't looking like a transcendental scorer, but he's still getting to the line and finishing there very well while drawing a ton of fouls, which is promising. He needs to round out his game, and in a hurry, because he's on the court longer and with a lot less help than to which he's accustomed. It's still early. Right now, we've learned that he's not MJ, but not a ton besides that.

Morey didn't do a particularly good job, no. It looks like he aimed high and screwed up. Lin is looking like a mistake (although it's as early for him as for Harden and he's coming off of knee surgery) and the frontcourt is just a DISASTER. I'd like to see Houston not sucking majorly at positions not related to James Harden before we get too clear a grip on what's happening. There is a trend emerging, but we're still not deep enough into the season to really firmly say anything, and even this whole season is still an experimental season because of the major situational shift between last season and this year.

Again though, against the Heat, Harden looked reasonable for a while. He played decent ball through three, but as per usual this season, he couldn't get his three-point shot going and he wasn't willing or able to go to mid-range looks, it's always rim, three or bust with him, with very little variation. If and when he successfully opens up the mid-range for himself, then we'll see him start to have at least a little more success, even with the dog-poop roster Morey has put around him.

The fourth was a bit weird for him. He entered with a little under 6 minutes to go. Grabbed a defensive board, committed a shooting foul on Bosh, missed a 3, had a couple of assists on 3Ps, missed another three, missed a shot from close to the rim and then missed a bomb as time expired. He was able to create three points, missed a shot in the paint and was a zero from downtown. His scoring ability just wasn't there at the end of the game and that's unfortunate. He was 5/11 under the arc and 1/6 from downtown. He drew 11 FTA against those 17 shots, which is a hair shy of 0.65 FTA/FGA and is VERY good (especially since he hit 9 of them). He passed well, didn't turn it over a ton... but with him, Lin and Delfino struggling, Parsons, Patterson and Asik (14 FTA? WTF?) kept them in this thing until the end. I know why Harden is struggling from 3, but it's systemic, that's not going to change any time soon, so he needs to shift his MO a little bit and find some closer shots that he can hit a little more reliably. Honestly, even his boogly 37-38% shots from like 18 feet would be better options than bricking it from 3 as he has so far.

We'll see what happens. At 10 games, we'll have at least a moderately acceptable sample to start thinking about this discussion a little more, but again, so much has changed between the situation where he was successful and now that it's difficult to make sweeping statements this early in the season. Especially when he's showing that he's still staggeringly elite at getting to and finishing at the rim.


As much as I believe Morey is an inept GM I won't place the blame for signing Lin on him since Alexander and ownership wanted Lin for marketing revenues. Lin obviously isn't a franchise-type PG and shouldn't be the 2nd option for Harden. However, Harden was the man at Arizona State and stated he accepted the challenge of being the man once again with the Rockets. Hopefully, he picks up his game for the Rockets sake.
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#603 » by tsherkin » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:23 pm

ahonui06 wrote:As much as I believe Morey is an inept GM I won't place the blame for signing Lin on him since Alexander and ownership wanted Lin for marketing revenues. Lin obviously isn't a franchise-type PG and shouldn't be the 2nd option for Harden.


Yeah, that's fair enough.

Still, he's a burdensome presence on the team the way he's playing right now. Again, coming off of surgery and everything, but he's still shooting terribly everywhere but right at the rim. He's passing alright, but still turning it over a ton and just hasn't been useful, generally speaking, especially in the offensive vacuum that is the Houston roster apart from Harden.

However, Harden was the man at Arizona State


Not relevant, given the differences between the NCAA and the NBA.

and stated he accepted the challenge of being the man once again with the Rockets. Hopefully, he picks up his game for the Rockets sake.


He certainly did, and he needs to be given time to adjust to that new role and the need for greater variety playing more minutes and as the focal offensive threat for the defense to target. He also needs guys around him who don't make porn stars blush with how hard they suck on offense. Against Miami, a couple of them came through for a change, and Harden himself stumbled, so that wasn't promising, so we'll see what happens. But we should probably stick to relevant observations and facts, not dredging up crap that has no bearing on the way things work in the NBA.
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#604 » by Krodis » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:39 am

Small sample size warning, but the on/off numbers so far are pretty shocking in Harden's favor. He's +9.4 despite the rest of the starting lineup being -11.4 (Lin), -6.0 (Parsons), -8.5 (Patterson), and +3.4 (Asik)
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#605 » by MisterWestside » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:50 am

Krodis wrote:Small sample size warning, but the on/off numbers so far are pretty shocking in Harden's favor. He's +9.4 despite the rest of the starting lineup being -11.4 (Lin), -6.0 (Parsons), -8.5 (Patterson), and +3.4 (Asik)


Well I think he IS the Rockets best player by far.

Doesn't mean he's playing (overall) great, though. A mix of sublime with subpar.
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#606 » by Krodis » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:57 am

Certainly there's still a bit of an adjustment period, plus the lack of practices with the team and the shooting slumps out of just about everyone doesn't help. Defenses are really selling out on defending Harden.
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#607 » by Krodis » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:29 am

Good game for Harden tonight, despite some hero ball at the end. Turnovers have been under control the last two games. Still taking too many bailout threes and not hitting them. But still getting to the rim and the line.
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#608 » by Krodis » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:33 am

And if Lin is supposed to be the second option and take pressure off Harden, he's doing an awful, awful job of it.
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#609 » by ahonui06 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:21 am

The trend appears to continue with Harden. Solid games against mediocre and subpar teams, but poor games against playoff contending teams.
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#610 » by Doctor MJ » Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:39 am

Krodis wrote:And if Lin is supposed to be the second option and take pressure off Harden, he's doing an awful, awful job of it.


Well, clearly it's an awkward situation, which seemed pretty likely from the moment they got Harden. I personally think the two moves both made sense at the time at which they were made.

I think it's pretty clear that had Houston not got Harden, they'd go into the year letting Lin try to do what he did in New York. Yes you can argue he wasn't likely to duplicate that success, and that you'd rather have Dragic or Lowry, but Lin burst in New York was typically considered more impressive than either of the other guys are their best up to that point, and he had less NBA experience which makes it more likely in general he could take a leap, and he's more marketable, and his salary is in the same ballpark as the other guys.

Not saying it's a genius move, but I don't see a major problem with it.

But then a greater talent comes available, Houston grabs him, and re-tools the offense around him. Again, pretty much what you'd expect them to do. Giving Lin a shot a your star is one thing, but you're going to insist on that approach if you get Harden. So things change, and now they have Lin playing a role that they really never wanted him to play. Had they already had Harden, they don't offer Lin that contract.

So, pretty solid chance Lin never looks like a star in Houston, but that doesn't mean signing him was an unwise move, or that he couldn't succeed elsewhere.
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#611 » by tsherkin » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:46 pm

I don't think it's an issue of Lin not looking like a star, it's if they can get him to not look like a total waste of time as a scoring threat. He seems to be passing and rebounding well enough, but his turnover rate is still really high and he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn trying to crash an aircraft carrier into it.

EDIT: As I've said elsewhere, it's still SSS, but MAN, has he been bad.
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#612 » by C-izMe » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:52 pm

tsherkin wrote:I don't think it's an issue of Lin not looking like a star, it's if they can get him to not look like a total waste of time as a scoring threat. He seems to be passing and rebounding well enough, but his turnover rate is still really high and he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn trying to crash an aircraft carrier into it.

EDIT: As I've said elsewhere, it's still SSS, but MAN, has he been bad.

That's a very difficult thing to do considering altitude and other factors. :D
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#613 » by JordansBulls » Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:08 pm

tsherkin wrote:I don't think it's an issue of Lin not looking like a star, it's if they can get him to not look like a total waste of time as a scoring threat. He seems to be passing and rebounding well enough, but his turnover rate is still really high and he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn trying to crash an aircraft carrier into it.

EDIT: As I've said elsewhere, it's still SSS, but MAN, has he been bad.

When he shot that airball the other day against Miami with like 10 seconds left wide open, I knew from that moment onward that he was more about hype than anything.
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#614 » by Krodis » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:17 am

Harden is first in the NBA so far in makes per game at the rim. Also near the top of the NBA on FT/FGA.
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#615 » by tsherkin » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:45 am

JordansBulls wrote:When he shot that airball the other day against Miami with like 10 seconds left wide open, I knew from that moment onward that he was more about hype than anything.


Like when Kobe air-balled it up against Utah in the playoffs?

C'mon, man, sometimes it doesn't work, and sometimes it's even an ugly, boogly air-ball. A single play doesn't tell you anything of value if you're being sensible.
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#616 » by Krodis » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:02 am

Good game tonight for Harden. Even played well down the stretch. Not as many isos, made some good passes. Don't know what Toney Douglas is doing playing so many late minutes though.
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#617 » by Dr Positivity » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:08 am

Yeah that was a particularly daft decision to leave out Lin, considering he was playing great tonight. Harden definitely looks like a superstar again to me. His passing looked great tonight.
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#618 » by Krodis » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:14 am

The Rockets did a better job of putting him in pick and roll situations, and the Rockets actually hitting some threes kept the defense honest. Still a lot of hard trapping on Harden, which the Rockets did a little better job of punishing, but they should really just abuse it when defenses do that.

And Harden is still getting to the rim and the line like no one else.
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#619 » by ahonui06 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:33 am

Same story for Harden once again. Good game against a bad team. Still waiting for him to have a solid game against a good team.
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Re: James Harden is a superstar 

Post#620 » by Krodis » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:37 am

He had a decent enough game against Miami, dumb hero ball possessions at the end aside. (And even those were contrasted by a pair of good assists on threes right beforehand)

He does get the Lakers on Sunday though.

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