How is JJ doing?

[FCNATL85]

ATL fan here. We do miss him at the moment but it is much better for the franchise long run. How is he performing for your team?

[SpeedyG]

Of to a slow start. Shooting below 40% from the field, until the last game against the Magic, I think. Defensively, he's OK, but offensively he's really not worth the money he's making anymore, at least from what I've seen.

Have not seen him be able to get by his man off of dribble penetration, and has to rely on his strength and size to back smaller guards down and position himself to finish with a floater. Outside shot hasn't been going in either.

[Paradise]

Like Speedy said, he's off to a slow start. I think he's really forcing it trying to do too much and some games he's really really passive to a fault.

Not sure if it's Joe himself or it's our coach but he's posting up ALOT more than I've ever seen him do in Atlanta and it's usually self posts instead of assisted low post moves.

He's not used to the team's players yet but we did see some real good stretches when he was shooting it from all over the place in Orlando last night.

[624]

He's show a couple flashes, but still getting used to the team and playing with Deron (Deron's also adjusting to playing with him).

[PetroNet]

pretty disappointing thus far... granted its onyl a 4 game sample and im sure he will play better. but his outside shot in wide open catch and shoot situations has been pretty poor. if there is anything we need him to d offensively, its hit open catch and shoot corner 3's.

[Bucked19]

I knew he would start off slow like always but this is the worst Ive ever seen him play,I really hope he gets it going soon

[Shappy]

Did pretty good tonight

[jerseyjac]

Finally looked like himself w/ his 4th qtr performance...

[NyCeEvO]

Let's hope for duplicate performance. We're going to need it against the Celtics.

[The Hypnotoad]

I wonder if JJ ever confronted Stackhouse yet about running underneath his dunk back in the 2005 Mavs-Suns playoff series and putting that metal plate in JJ's face?

[jeff1624]

I wonder if JJ ever confronted Stackhouse yet about running underneath his dunk back in the 2005 Mavs-Suns playoff series and putting that metal plate in JJ's face?

I doubt JJ wants to gets body slammed anytime soon.

[jerseyjac]

I wonder if JJ ever confronted Stackhouse yet about running underneath his dunk back in the 2005 Mavs-Suns playoff series and putting that metal plate in JJ's face?

As Johnson was driving for the basket late in the first half, Dallas' Jerry Stackhouse reached out to block the shot.

Although replays showed Stackhouse did make a clean block, a foul was called. Johnson lost his balance and fell face first onto the hardwood.

"I don't want to hurt anybody and it wasn't intentional," Stackhouse said. "I was just challenging him. I had all ball. It was his momentum holding onto the rim and he just came down. It was unfortunate. I hope he's fine and he comes back. He's a key part of this series."

[vincecarter4pres]

Copy and paste from the Game Thread:

Scary part with JJ is his contract is it's 4 years. The biggest max deal in the league. No way to get rid of him til year 4 when he's an expiring and that's even a tough task.

I refuse to believe it's to the hyperbolic level Speedy is saying, where he's done, cause I'm watching the games and occasionally he still flashes a very respectable first step and I'm not seeing his elevation being so bad. I do think he's forcing it constantly though and yes, his actual play in play out ability to get by defenders has really faded badly, there's no denying that.

Truthfully this was basically what he was last year as well, but his shot was falling most of the year.

I was really on the fence with the move when it went down and am really starting to doubt it now. I mean I already was, but this could be ugly. I had hoped he could be like Pierce in a sense, where even though his raw efficiency and overall efficiency dive because of age and decline, he could still be effective and impactful, but he doesn't draw fouls like Pierce, he doesn't have Pierce's savvy high level BBIQ and he doesn't have Pierce's confident, even cocky I'm a killer mentality.

This could get ugly, especially if his decline gets worse in coming years, cause he makes way way too much to bench him no matter how bad he gets in year 2 and even year 3 and could setup some strife in the locker room and such.

If you really ask me the main problem though, aside from the two obvious that he is A) forcing incredibly bad shots and B) his shot in general is not falling, even when wide open, is C) he's half a pussy. I don't think this has been a secret the last few years of his career, but he tends to fade in big spots a lot of times. I don't think he's a pressure player and he's struggling to understand his place here and shying away from aggression even when it's just him and the 2nd unit.

Bottom line and this scares me, he's quite possibly a player who isn't built to play in a big market like this, especially while his skills and athleticism are beginning to diminish.


And just to start thinking about it, just for kicks... who could you possibly get for him in trade? Who is even a remote outside dark horse long shot of incredibly unlikely probability to trade him for?

We don't really have a true high upside youth piece to add with him in a salary dump that brings back a much better player on an also really bad contract.

It would have to be someone that's really damaged goods. Maybe Eric Gordon and that would probably mean his outlook for at least this year looks bleak and/or that he's still causing a big stink behind the scenes and we're still going to have to add MarShon and picks unless Gordon's knee is truly obliterated and then it's simply a "You take the more money on the declining vet and some picks, we take the huge upside but equally huge risk" type of move.

Amar'e would be the other obvious, but A) Yuck, and B) Don't see our 2 teams doing business.

Maybe Nene and Okafor for JJ and some picks?

I'm not seeing it.


Basically, he's here, so let's all hope he can just start nailing his J's, Avery can start using him better and that he isn't this toast and that he's just in a slump and that he can get his mind right and adjust to playing in this market.


Yikes.

[SpeedyG]

Copy and paste from the Game Thread:

Scary part with JJ is his contract is it's 4 years. The biggest max deal in the league. No way to get rid of him til year 4 when he's an expiring and that's even a tough task.

I refuse to believe it's to the hyperbolic level Speedy is saying, where he's done, cause I'm watching the games and occasionally he still flashes a very respectable first step and I'm not seeing his elevation being so bad. I do think he's forcing it constantly though and yes, his actual play in play out ability to get by defenders has really faded badly, there's no denying that.

Truthfully this was basically what he was last year as well, but his shot was falling most of the year.

I was really on the fence with the move when it went down and am really starting to doubt it now. I mean I already was, but this could be ugly. I had hoped he could be like Pierce in a sense, where even though his raw efficiency and overall efficiency dive because of age and decline, he could still be effective and impactful, but he doesn't draw fouls like Pierce, he doesn't have Pierce's savvy high level BBIQ and he doesn't have Pierce's confident, even cocky I'm a killer mentality.

This could get ugly, especially if his decline gets worse in coming years, cause he makes way way too much to bench him no matter how bad he gets in year 2 and even year 3 and could setup some strife in the locker room and such.

If you really ask me the main problem though, aside from the two obvious that he is A) forcing incredibly bad shots and B) his shot in general is not falling, even when wide open, is C) he's half a pussy. I don't think this has been a secret the last few years of his career, but he tends to fade in big spots a lot of times. I don't think he's a pressure player and he's struggling to understand his place here and shying away from aggression even when it's just him and the 2nd unit.

Bottom line and this scares me, he's quite possibly a player who isn't built to play in a big market like this, especially while his skills and athleticism are beginning to diminish.


And just to start thinking about it, just for kicks... who could you possibly get for him in trade? Who is even a remote outside dark horse long shot of incredibly unlikely probability to trade him for?

We don't really have a true high upside youth piece to add with him in a salary dump that brings back a much better player on an also really bad contract.

It would have to be someone that's really damaged goods. Maybe Eric Gordon and that would probably mean his outlook for at least this year looks bleak and/or that he's still causing a big stink behind the scenes and we're still going to have to add MarShon and picks unless Gordon's knee is truly obliterated and then it's simply a "You take the more money on the declining vet and some picks, we take the huge upside but equally huge risk" type of move.

Amar'e would be the other obvious, but A) Yuck, and B) Don't see our 2 teams doing business.

Maybe Nene and Okafor for JJ and some picks?

I'm not seeing it.


Basically, he's here, so let's all hope he can just start nailing his J's, Avery can start using him better and that he isn't this toast and that he's just in a slump and that he can get his mind right and adjust to playing in this market.


Yikes.

The problem is Avery's done that. We've run him off screens, he's gotten the ball in spot up 3 situations and missed them most of the team.

Unless he's making his shots, JJ has not been able to do anything offensively. I think we'll need to use him as a cutter instead of shooter. Problem is, that's Crash's job.

[MGrand15]

Copy and paste from the Game Thread:

Scary part with JJ is his contract is it's 4 years. The biggest max deal in the league. No way to get rid of him til year 4 when he's an expiring and that's even a tough task.

I refuse to believe it's to the hyperbolic level Speedy is saying, where he's done, cause I'm watching the games and occasionally he still flashes a very respectable first step and I'm not seeing his elevation being so bad. I do think he's forcing it constantly though and yes, his actual play in play out ability to get by defenders has really faded badly, there's no denying that.

Truthfully this was basically what he was last year as well, but his shot was falling most of the year.

I was really on the fence with the move when it went down and am really starting to doubt it now. I mean I already was, but this could be ugly. I had hoped he could be like Pierce in a sense, where even though his raw efficiency and overall efficiency dive because of age and decline, he could still be effective and impactful, but he doesn't draw fouls like Pierce, he doesn't have Pierce's savvy high level BBIQ and he doesn't have Pierce's confident, even cocky I'm a killer mentality.

This could get ugly, especially if his decline gets worse in coming years, cause he makes way way too much to bench him no matter how bad he gets in year 2 and even year 3 and could setup some strife in the locker room and such.

If you really ask me the main problem though, aside from the two obvious that he is A) forcing incredibly bad shots and B) his shot in general is not falling, even when wide open, is C) he's half a pussy. I don't think this has been a secret the last few years of his career, but he tends to fade in big spots a lot of times. I don't think he's a pressure player and he's struggling to understand his place here and shying away from aggression even when it's just him and the 2nd unit.

Bottom line and this scares me, he's quite possibly a player who isn't built to play in a big market like this, especially while his skills and athleticism are beginning to diminish.


And just to start thinking about it, just for kicks... who could you possibly get for him in trade? Who is even a remote outside dark horse long shot of incredibly unlikely probability to trade him for?

We don't really have a true high upside youth piece to add with him in a salary dump that brings back a much better player on an also really bad contract.

It would have to be someone that's really damaged goods. Maybe Eric Gordon and that would probably mean his outlook for at least this year looks bleak and/or that he's still causing a big stink behind the scenes and we're still going to have to add MarShon and picks unless Gordon's knee is truly obliterated and then it's simply a "You take the more money on the declining vet and some picks, we take the huge upside but equally huge risk" type of move.

Amar'e would be the other obvious, but A) Yuck, and B) Don't see our 2 teams doing business.

Maybe Nene and Okafor for JJ and some picks?

I'm not seeing it.


Basically, he's here, so let's all hope he can just start nailing his J's, Avery can start using him better and that he isn't this toast and that he's just in a slump and that he can get his mind right and adjust to playing in this market.


Yikes.

Nene and Okafor for JJ?

His jumper is off but the major reason for his low FG% is he's not finishing or getting to the rim. With Brook posting and none of our PFs being shooters, this is probably the most crowded JJ has seen the paint in a couple years. ATL had Horford and Smith who had to be respected from outside. Still, JJ was one of the best shooters in the league last year and he's a huge SG. He's getting wide open looks from mid range and from 3. He''s going to start knocking down open shots. It's what he does. You don't lose your jumper like that.

All this hate also completely ignores his playmaking ability regardless of how bad he's shooting. Our 2nd unit with JJ leading them has been CRUSHING teams. Marshon can't lead that unit. Lopez or Crash can't lead that unit. No one but Deron or JJ can do that. He still draws doubles, commands attention and makes plays for others. His man-to-man defense has also been really damn good.

He's slumping for sure but he's still playing winning basketball - I don't see how you could even throw out that ridiculous trade after we just beat 2 contending teams. JJ was one of the best shooters in the league last year and he's getting the same exact looks. Makes no sense to assume he's just fallen off a cliff or he "can't handle the pressure." The fact that he's missing great looks and we're STILL winning and he's STILL making a positive contribution is encouraging to me.

A trade for anything less than a very good playmaking guard would be a major major major downgrade for this team. We have 2 ball handlers - anything less than that is a recipe for disaster.

[624]

I really think JJ will be fine. He's still adjusting and his shot's not falling and he is playing too many minutes.

He's not shooting well but is still at 37% from 3, and just came off back to back great games.

Still putting up 4 assists and rebounds per game and is among the league leaders in 4th quarter scoring.


All I see is a very good player not shooting well, he's still getting good looks and making nice passes.



His game has never relied on athleticism.


I just wish his minutes would go down a bit.

Watson
Brooks
Bogans
Evans/Tele
Blatche/Evans

could be a lethal 2nd unit with far too much talent to not succeed against other team's benches.

Let JJ play with Deron more.

[vincecarter4pres]

Nene and Okafor for JJ?

His jumper is off but the major reason for his low FG% is he's not finishing or getting to the rim. With Brook posting and none of our PFs being shooters, this is probably the most crowded JJ has seen the paint in a couple years. ATL had Horford and Smith who had to be respected from outside. Still, JJ was one of the best shooters in the league last year and he's a huge SG. He's getting wide open looks from mid range and from 3. He''s going to start knocking down open shots. It's what he does. You don't lose your jumper like that.

All this hate also completely ignores his playmaking ability regardless of how bad he's shooting. Our 2nd unit with JJ leading them has been CRUSHING teams. Marshon can't lead that unit. Lopez or Crash can't lead that unit. No one but Deron or JJ can do that. He still draws doubles, commands attention and makes plays for others. His man-to-man defense has also been really damn good.

He's slumping for sure but he's still playing winning basketball - I don't see how you could even throw out that ridiculous trade after we just beat 2 contending teams. JJ was one of the best shooters in the league last year and he's getting the same exact looks. Makes no sense to assume he's just fallen off a cliff or he "can't handle the pressure." The fact that he's missing great looks and we're STILL winning and he's STILL making a positive contribution is encouraging to me.

A trade for anything less than a very good playmaking guard would be a major major major downgrade for this team. We have 2 ball handlers - anything less than that is a recipe for disaster.

Nene by himself is a better player then JJ IMHO and it shortens the amount of money out and gives us a more reasonable contract to deal with in a couple years if another trade came up.

I'm not "hating" on JJ, he's been a bucket of suck besides maybe 3 or 4 games and that's plain fact.

I've also said I don't believe he's declined much and said the exact same thing that you just said, that his shot just isn't falling and this is mainly the player he's been for 2 years, so chances are he hopefully starts nailing them, so I'm confused as to why you're acting oblivious to that and pretending I haven't already said the same, hell, right in the post you quote?

He's had some nice passes here and there every game, but with his blow by ability seemingly seriously diminished it has limited his effectiveness as a playmaker whether with the primary unit or second and he's just not aggressive enough.

He's never been a guy to draw a ton of fouls either, but he's been especially meager in that aspect this season.

Yes, his defense has been very solid and we should give him more credit for it.

And by the stats and just the eye test, no, he is not playing winning basketball.


I do understand the need for a secondary playmaker and ball handler, but let's not act like Joe has been good in that role so far this year, at least and especially on any kind of consistent basis.


Last but not least, I'm not saying to do that trade, it was just spitballing on a forum. Just throwing out ideas for conversation's sake. I don't control what this team does. You don't control what this team does. Relax, it's not that serious. And it's not ridiculous. Well maybe it is, cause if anything it's ridiculous from Washington's side. They take on a ton of money for a declining old vet while in a rebuild like ours was a few years ago.