Wizards sign Shaun Livingston

[hands11]

yeah livingston was cut after the signing of pargo but with houstons numbers we did the mathematics and figured he'd be available or machado. if we can do it a team of proffesionals should have known instead of playing bingo hoping to hit something

Looks like they did do it. He is here isn't he.

[hands11]

Why not start Livingston he's more of a pure point guard then Crawford.

Not happening game one. At least I doubt it.

[jivelikenice]

The only criticism of this deal is why it didn't occur sooner...Shaun is not a great ball player, but he knows how to run an offense and his ability to post up point guards will actually force defenses to bring more defenders his way which should open up opportunities for others. He's a better player than Price, Pargo, and Mack...which is why it should have been made as soon as he was waived.

[hands11]

IIRC Livingston was just recently released so he wasn't available when we signed Pargo.

Alright he was not cut yet but why pargo of all people?

Go read the thread when he was added. Most said he was the best available at the time and they were fine with the addition.

Come on people.

Responsibility, they could have added him a game or two sooner then they did. The fact that they did it a game or two later then was reasonably is nothing to complain about. Just he happy they did it is a reasonable time period.

No way they did it as soon a Livingston came available. They already signed Pargo and he fought it out in camp. They were at least going to give that a look first. Surely they had tabs on Livingston and if he would get taken up by another team.

Best thing that could have happened to this team was Price spraining his ankle and the team coming back from 20 something down once he want out and Crawford was put at PG. That just shows what PG leadership can do for this group. They need someone they believe in a PG. Price was not it. That was the opening.

Livingston may not be great, but he is a PG that can lead a team. I expect the team will respond to him.

[hands11]

YESSSSSSS!!

Now all we need to do is trade Vesely to China for James Singleton, and the Juggernaut will be ready to roll!

Sit tight. Chris will be back for the second the end of the season after he gets paid in China and gets his fill of local noogy.

[payitforward]

The collective group think of this board would be a vastly better GM than EG.

So would pin the tail on the donkey blindfolded.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

They also cut Pargo.

Shoulda just saved time and not signed Pargo in the first place.

Also shoulda kept Mack.

Livingston should be better at helping the Wizards generate moral victories.

Bringing back Livingston is a step in the right direction.

[80sballboy]

wasn't everyone on this board wanted him before he was even cut? Ernie lack common we all have on this board.

It's a good move. Everybody is in such a bad move right now from the 0-7 start, he could trade for LeBron and Kobe and they will still find fault with it.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Shaun Livingston was cut about a week after Pargo was signed. When Mack got cut that's the same time Livingston did and the uproar began for the signing of Shaun.

[payitforward]

I like the signing of Livingston. It gives the Zards a true pass-first PG who is also a decent penetrator...something that the Zards sorely lack without a healthy Wall.

Pargo is useless if he's not making shots.

Nivek, EG probably did Mack a favor by letting him go. He didn't have a future here. Maybe he can catch on somewhere else. Shelvin is not a good enough ballhandler, passer or penetrator to play PG...and he's not a good enough shooter to be an effective combo guard. Price and/or Livingston will be a better backup PG for the Zards than Mack.

1. Livingston is not "a true pass-first etc etc who etc etc"; he is a washed-up player. Perfect guy for Ernie.
2. Pargo "useless if not making shots" ?? -- career FG% under 40%. Just "useless" would have been good enough.
3. Mack "isn't a good enough etc. etc. etc. list of abstractions..." Thing is, Mack was more productive last year than Price was last year and more productive than Price is this year -- let alone Pargo; there isn't a tool sharp enough to scrape him off the bottom of the barrel.

...where I wanted to end up all along.... End result. They upgraded at PG from last year. Adding Livingston and Price is better then Mack. And now Crawford is getting a shot at it as well.

You made a typing error: "upgraded" for "downgraded" -- see above. Mack last year was better than Price and/or Pargo this year, and better than Livingston this year.

For example, which is better for a "pass first point guard", Zards and Hands, more assists or fewer assists? Mack had 6.7 assists every 40 minutes; "pass first Shaun" had 4.5. So much for that notion.

No Wall has been killing them this year.

Oh absolutely. I mean I remember how when we had Wall playing 35 minutes or more a game last year we stormed out to a 14 and 46 record. The guy carries a team!

[payitforward]

Oh btw, Mack last year also had more rebounds and more steals per 40 minutes than Shaun Livingston.

How much upside would you say Shaun Livingston has at 27 and having come back from a horrendous injury as *much less* of a player than he was?

Mack was a rookie last year -- a tough year to be a rookie w/ no Summer work w/ the team, no real training camp, and so forth. I can only think of one GM who would have cut him at this point after his relative success as a rookie, and you know who that GM is.

[payitforward]

Given the situation at the time, most posters thought Pargo was the best available so they were ok with it. If you check the thread, that what was getting posted.

??? You thought so, but no "most posters" certainly didn't

I like the team chances to be more competitive now. ...Still not there without Wall and Nene, but things should look noticeably better.

And when they don't, will you raise your hand and say "I was wrong?" Or will you have reframed as "I understood why they decided to do X, but really I'd have done it all differently...." ??

[rockymac52]

When I first heard the news today I was happy, because it was the right move to make. The same move that everybody and their mother had been saying was the right move to make for the last month and a half, ever since we heard about Wall's injury. Better late than never, I suppose.

But that happiness didn't last long. About a minute later, I realized that I just got happy because my favorite team signed Shaun Livingston mid-season. SHAUN LIVINGSTON. Like I said the moment we heard Wall was injured, Livingston was the best option available. But like Nivek and others have stated here, he's still not a very good option, at the end of the day. There's a reason he was available. He is a backup PG, at best. I like him, and I'm glad he's here, but let's not pretend this is going to magically turn things around.

It's just sad that our franchise has reached a point so low that our fans have to get excited about signing Shaun Livingston. Come on. We deserve better than this.

[GhostsOfGil]

PIF, SL had his best 2 seasons after his injury. We don't need upside at this point. We need someone to help run our offense and stop the bleeding. I'm not saying Shelvin deserved to be cut but SL is a significantly better player than Mack.

Also your quote about Wall and last years 14 and 46 record is baffling. Right now were on pace for 0 wins. Wall may not be our savior but his absence has definitely hurt.

[dangermouse]

I like the signing of Livingston. It gives the Zards a true pass-first PG who is also a decent penetrator...something that the Zards sorely lack without a healthy Wall.

Pargo is useless if he's not making shots.

Nivek, EG probably did Mack a favor by letting him go. He didn't have a future here. Maybe he can catch on somewhere else. Shelvin is not a good enough ballhandler, passer or penetrator to play PG...and he's not a good enough shooter to be an effective combo guard. Price and/or Livingston will be a better backup PG for the Zards than Mack.

Which is where I wanted to end up all along.

Welcome back Shawn.

End result. They upgraded at PG from last year. Adding Livingston and Price is better then Mack.

I agree. Livingston comes in as the PG with the most experience to ever play behind Wall (once Wall is healthy of course) correct?

That should take some pressure off his return, and he can probably learn a thing or two from him as well. Good stuff in the end.

[Halcyon]

When I first heard the news today I was happy, because it was the right move to make. The same move that everybody and their mother had been saying was the right move to make for the last month and a half, ever since we heard about Wall's injury. Better late than never, I suppose.

But that happiness didn't last long. About a minute later, I realized that I just got happy because my favorite team signed Shaun Livingston mid-season. SHAUN LIVINGSTON. Like I said the moment we heard Wall was injured, Livingston was the best option available. But like Nivek and others have stated here, he's still not a very good option, at the end of the day. There's a reason he was available. He is a backup PG, at best. I like him, and I'm glad he's here, but let's not pretend this is going to magically turn things around.

It's just sad that our franchise has reached a point so low that our fans have to get excited about signing Shaun Livingston. Come on. We deserve better than this.

This is the exact thought that went through my brain. Good lord we are a beaten down fanbase.

[truwizfan4evr]

Wizards wont win any games but they be more fun to watch now with Livingston then pargo.

[truwizfan4evr]

I actually think Livingston will help Beal game get him open looks. I expect a improvement in Beal shooting not saying Livingston is a miracle worker but he will be helpful to Beal game.

[Dat2U]

Oh btw, Mack last year also had more rebounds and more steals per 40 minutes than Shaun Livingston.

How much upside would you say Shaun Livingston has at 27 and having come back from a horrendous injury as *much less* of a player than he was?

Mack was a rookie last year -- a tough year to be a rookie w/ no Summer work w/ the team, no real training camp, and so forth. I can only think of one GM who would have cut him at this point after his relative success as a rookie, and you know who that GM is.

If we only had kept Shelvin Mack and signed Landry Fields... Oh how much better we would be!

[dlts20]

SL shouldve been signed as soon as he was cut and shouldve been our starting PG from day 1. By far the best pure PG on the team other than Wall. I even wanted SL over Crawford.

I agree with the poster above saying he will help Beal. I said the whole time since the draft that Beal should start. That was before the Wall injury. After the Wall injury I said that I wouldnt mind JC starting because I think Beal's game would benefit a ton from Wall but JC can do his thing without Wall.

I wasnt upset with sticking with Beal as the starter though because I think Witt feels like Wall should be back a month into the season and it wouldve been hard to pull a guy like JC out of the starting group at that point. You dont want JC to get that mindset that he's the starter because you wont be able to sit him later. You just have to ride with Beal at that point and hope he plays well.

He's been average but most of that is because he needs a good PG at this point of his career and we dont have that without Wall. When Wall gets back, Beal will look a ton better and I expect that to start some now with SL back. The only problem is that its still backwards becasue they probably wont be on the court much together