KOTB:LAL|NOH|DEN

[eliasrapp98]

No

Another Ghost trade where the Lakers get everything they need and then some and only thing they give up is Gasol

I disagree. I usually hate Ghost's trades, but this one is quite fair. Anderson is no where near Gasol level so to make up for it they get two good role players and a pick. Not too good at all.

[HartfordWhalers]

I'd have to say yes. Lakers do it for the salary dump, pick, and bench. NOH does it for the simple upgrade and DEN does it for a big starting upgrade.

1 yes.

I vote no.

This is putrid for denver.

Doesn't explain why you feel that way.

But a yes from me. Think its a perfect fit for all teams involved.

2 yes 2 no.

No, I really don't see Denver sacrificing that much for Pau.
Also, seems a little too good for the Hornets.
Lakers probably would this, even though they shouldn't.

3rd no.

No, That is way to much of the future to give up for a team that is not going to be a contender over the next 2 years. gasol is just not that good anymore and with the Nuggets having the 3rd youngest team in the league I would think it would be obvious they are not looking for 32 year old declining big man.

4th no.

I'd say no to the trade overall. Gasol doesn't have this much value in my eyes. Sorry..

5th no.

Its 3 more yes'es after that for 5, but missed by hitting the 5th no first. Sorry no point.

However, when this many people think a trade is possible, its a good trade idea, point or no point.

[The Rebel]

Yes. Denver gets much better this year. If it still doesn't make them an elite team, they can either trade Pau next year as he's expiring or let him go. Either way they'll have a ton of flexibility by getting out of the Chandler and McGee deals. NO gets their frontcourt of the future. Young and defensive minded. Lakers get better players for D'Antoni's style. They'd probably exhaust all possibilities for getting a star in return for Pau but if they can't then they make this deal.

so when it does not make them an elite team they can just let Pau walk and end up with Koufos and who exactly as their centers?

Last I checked Pau even in his prime with several very good players was not enough to make a team more then a 1st round exit, he has gotten older, is slower, and has a bigger contract now but the Nuggets should give up a talented young big and the man they plan on being their 6th man for the next several years for the chance to be slightly better for one year and end up with nothing in a year?

[The Rebel]

How can Denver fans complain? I think this deal is perfect for them actually. A line-up of Lawson, Iggy, Gallo, Faried, and Gasol is top 3 in the west.

Because last I checked being top 3 in the west is not the goal, winning a championship is, and that team loses youth and financial flexibility. Not to mention that they would not be any more of a top 3 team in the west then they are now. The Nuggets are the 3rd youngest team in the league right now, they have either very good or talented young players at every position that they are developing, they are building a team long term that needs time to develop, jumping up for a 32 year old big on a real max deal knowing that he does not fix the teams biggest problem and he takes away a future 1st is not the way to build a team, that is the way to become a team in hell.

[AdonisDeMarion]

Yes. Denver gets much better this year. If it still doesn't make them an elite team, they can either trade Pau next year as he's expiring or let him go. Either way they'll have a ton of flexibility by getting out of the Chandler and McGee deals. NO gets their frontcourt of the future. Young and defensive minded. Lakers get better players for D'Antoni's style. They'd probably exhaust all possibilities for getting a star in return for Pau but if they can't then they make this deal.

so when it does not make them an elite team they can just let Pau walk and end up with Koufos and who exactly as their centers?

Last I checked Pau even in his prime with several very good players was not enough to make a team more then a 1st round exit, he has gotten older, is slower, and has a bigger contract now but the Nuggets should give up a talented young big and the man they plan on being their 6th man for the next several years for the chance to be slightly better for one year and end up with nothing in a year?

Yes because Miller, Battier, Williams and Wright is a better group than Lawson, Iggy, Gallo and Faried. My dude get real please

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Last I checked Pau even in his prime with several very good players was not enough to make a team more then a 1st round exit

Who are these several very good players you speak of? At best those memphis teams were Gasol and a group of role players. Think the decline of Gasol is over stated. The guy on a "down" year gave you 17-10-3 with over 50% shooting while playing out of position and as a third option. Personally I think Gasol is too slow for the 4 now. Any team trading for him would have to plan on playing him at center to get the full return.

[Texas Chuck]

not only are the memphis players being overvalued but so are the pieces Denver is giving up. None of them are core pieces, none of them have much upside except maybe McGee but really how much longer before he delivers? Im honestly stunned that people think this isnt an absolute steal talent and value wise for Denver and that someone thinks top 3 in the West isnt essentially the same thing as a championship contender. There is absolutely no good reason for Denver to not make a move that costs them nothing in longterm assets that makes them considerably better right now. Its no risk/high reward.

[dockingsched]

Last I checked Pau even in his prime with several very good players was not enough to make a team more then a 1st round exit,

that is such a mind numbingly lame response i'm surprised to see there isn't some type of green font included. shame on you, shame.

[The Rebel]

Yes. Denver gets much better this year. If it still doesn't make them an elite team, they can either trade Pau next year as he's expiring or let him go. Either way they'll have a ton of flexibility by getting out of the Chandler and McGee deals. NO gets their frontcourt of the future. Young and defensive minded. Lakers get better players for D'Antoni's style. They'd probably exhaust all possibilities for getting a star in return for Pau but if they can't then they make this deal.

so when it does not make them an elite team they can just let Pau walk and end up with Koufos and who exactly as their centers?

Last I checked Pau even in his prime with several very good players was not enough to make a team more then a 1st round exit, he has gotten older, is slower, and has a bigger contract now but the Nuggets should give up a talented young big and the man they plan on being their 6th man for the next several years for the chance to be slightly better for one year and end up with nothing in a year?

Yes because Miller, Battier, Williams and Wright is a better group than Lawson, Iggy, Gallo and Faried. My dude get real please

I find it funny how often I see on Realgm that all the Nuggets have is role players, until someone posts a trade and are trying to justify it. We can argue specific players all you want, but I cannot see how a team that had various casts of Battier, Posey, JWill, Mike Miller, a solid young Bonzi Wells, Eddie Jones, and Bobby Jackson is considered a bad cast of role players.

But let's talk about the 2 most important issues between those Memphis teams and the Nuggets team that would be left after this deal.

Interior defense, the Grizzlies had Wright who was a very good defensive center, along with Swift who for all his trouble on offense was a solid defender especially in his early career, along with Cardinel who was overpaid but was always a decent hustle guy. We can also discuss the Lakers who struggled when Bynum was out due to not having the defensive big next to gasol. Now who are the defensive bigs on the Nuggets that will surround Gasol? Faried is not that guy. Mozgov is too injury prone. Koufos is okay, but then the Nuggets would have to bench the guy who has been their best player this year and cut into Faried's development.

The other thing that the Grizzlies had that the Nuggets do not is 3 pint shooting to spread the floor. Going into this season it was well known that outside shooting was a concern for the Nuggets, well 9 games in and they are 27th in the league. The Grizzlies had some damn good shooters to spread the floor for Gasol, this Nuggets team shoots 30% so far this season. Sure

So once again why would the Nuggets bring in a 32 year old big that is declining while making $19 million per year, while giving up several young players they like and a future draft pick, knowing full well that even a prime Gasol is not going to take this team any further then they are already going?

[The Rebel]

Last I checked Pau even in his prime with several very good players was not enough to make a team more then a 1st round exit,

that is such a mind numbingly lame response i'm surprised to see there isn't some type of green font included. shame on you, shame.

Your right I forgot I was on the trade board, where if you are not a superstar then your contribution does not count.

Last I checked Mike Miller was a 6th man of the year on those teams and was a very good player prior to the injury problems.

Shane Battier still 8 years later and well past his prime is considered a very good defender and once was one of the best, and he could also shoot.

Hell James Posey was also well known for defense while being a solid offensive player.

Jason Williams was a solid PG while in Memphis.

Bonzi wells was a 17 and 6 defensive guy in his prime.

Eddie Jones was still a solid player when he went to Memphis.

Many of those guys have played important roles on championship teams, But you are right shame on me for calling those guys very good players. After all it is not Kobe and Bynum, so the teammates were not good enough to even win at least one game in the playoffs after all Gasol was the only NBA player on the team, good thing he was good enough to win 50 games and get home court advantage one year all by himself without a bunch of Dleague guys. People act like a team with 10 guys on it that all had long careers were nothing but end of the bench scrubs, which is the real shame, but I know it does not fit the running narrative that Pau was all alone in Memphis and the Nuggets should give up whatever they can to get him.

[Texas Chuck]

REbel,

you seem to be missing one major point: they are giving up nothing for him. Nothing. McGee, please Karl doesnt even trust the guy, a late 1st when they already have more young prospects than they have money for.

You keep talking about why Gasol doesnt work but you leave out that he is an excellent post scorer/distributor, a great rebounder and an upgrade defensively over their current rotation.

So its a massive upgrade, costs them next to nothing, and doesnt touch a single young player in their future plans other than adding another mediocre prospect in what 'Im told is a thin draft that they wont have minutes for.

If this involved Gallo or Faried or Lawson or even guys like Fournier or Hamilton then what you are saying makes sense. But to not upgrade your team because you still have other needs when the upgrade costs you this little seems crazy to me.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

REbel,

you seem to be missing one major point: they are giving up nothing for him. Nothing. McGee, please Karl doesnt even trust the guy, a late 1st when they already have more young prospects than they have money for.

You keep talking about why Gasol doesnt work but you leave out that he is an excellent post scorer/distributor, a great rebounder and an upgrade defensively over their current rotation.

So its a massive upgrade, costs them next to nothing, and doesnt touch a single young player in their future plans other than adding another mediocre prospect in what 'Im told is a thin draft that they wont have minutes for.

If this involved Gallo or Faried or Lawson or even guys like Fournier or Hamilton then what you are saying makes sense. But to not upgrade your team because you still have other needs when the upgrade costs you this little seems crazy to me.

Pretty much sums it up perfect. To think Gasol was the downfall for the that memphis team is a big stretch. Even when Bynum was out the Lakers won 2 titles with Gasol being a defensive anchor. Don't get me wrong, he is not a rim protector but when he plays center he can rotate and use his length with the best of them.

[The Rebel]

REbel,

you seem to be missing one major point: they are giving up nothing for him. Nothing. McGee, please Karl doesnt even trust the guy, a late 1st when they already have more young prospects than they have money for.

I love how many responses single me out when several said this was not a good deal.

Karl not trusting a player means nothing to me (Karl has jacked with talented players throughout his career and even now he plays a hustle player over a talented young 3 point shooter), fact is McGee is putting up solid numbers and the Nuggets just signed him to be the center of the future. Mozgov while injury prone is a solid backup quality young big. Chandler while struggling to come back from his injury last year and still under severe doctor restrictions was a 15 and 6 guy with a block a game. to me that is giving up quit a bit for someone that does not improve the team enough short term to justify the long term loses.

That is not even mentioning the future pick, here is a little secret fans of larger market teams do not get, if a good team wants to add players that they believe will out perform their contract then the draft is the best way to do it. The Nuggets could win the championship next year and they still would not get ring chasers or players agreeing to take less money to play in Denver. That does not happen, so why trade a pick for someone who is a short term improvement?

You keep talking about why Gasol doesnt work but you leave out that he is an excellent post scorer/distributor, a great rebounder and an upgrade defensively over their current rotation.

Gasol is such a great defender that teams have always had a better defensive big to go with him. As for rebounds, Denver is the top rebounding team in the league, averaging almost 2 more rebounds per game then the next closest team, so that is not their problem.

As for being a scorer/distributer I will agree that he is that, but then who does he pass it out to, and who creates the room for him to operate? Teams do not add a 32 year old $19 million per year guy when they have no chance to win the championship this year.

So its a massive upgrade, costs them next to nothing, and doesnt touch a single young player in their future plans other than adding another mediocre prospect in what 'Im told is a thin draft that they wont have minutes for.

If this involved Gallo or Faried or Lawson or even guys like Fournier or Hamilton then what you are saying makes sense. But to not upgrade your team because you still have other needs when the upgrade costs you this little seems crazy to me.

So if the trade involved any of the last 3 guys the Nuggets picked up in the 1st round then it would make sense arguing against it, but having a problem giving up a 1st round pick for Gasol does not? As for the bad draft argument, you mean like the 2011 draft where they got 2 of the guys on your list?

The Nuggets resigned McGee and Chandler both because they are in the long term plans they did not just pay those guys millions of dollars just to piss off the owner. The rumors were that other teams were calling them around the draft to trade with the Nuggets not that the Nuggets were out there shopping Chandler or anybody else for that matter.

Besides that Gasol at this point is not a massive upgrade long term, it is stupid for the 3rd youngest team in the league to trade a bunch of young talent they like for a guy who is 32 years and has had his production drop in each of the last 2 years. Especially when your teams biggest weaknesses do no improve, which will mean you are selling a piece of the future for a short term gain that gets you no closer to your actual goal.

Also another thing this ignores is the lack of flexibility. Once Gasol's trade kicker kicks in the Nuggets will be over the tax next year with 12 players under contract. You think a team that is not a contender wants to add a guy who is going to make a deal putting them in the luxury tax?

One last thing, something for others to think about although I do not expect real answers to this question.

Would any one try to argue that the Pistons should trade 2 of their young talented players plus a pick and a additional young player that the Pistons like for Gasol?

Would you advocate the Kings trading 3 young guys they are high on as well as a future 1st round pick?

If you say no, well then I agree, but here is the little secret both teams are older then the Nuggets. No rebuilding team even if they have done better then expected should be trading for 32 year old max salary guy that is not the final piece.

[Texas Chuck]

but those teams suck and the Nuggets dont. Who cares how old they are? OKC has a young core too. Should they not try and upgrade their team because they are building because their best players are kids?

Denver is another premier player from contending esp this year when so many West powers are down.

I'll agree to disagree with you about the talent they give up and how "small-market" clubs should operate.

I mentioned the tax in my first post as a reason for them not to do it but that I wasnt going to run the numbers as OP should have done so. I agree that hitting the tax becomes a problem for them as they have so many players locked into longterm deals.

[SCourGe OF GoD]

Yeah Rebel i have to politely disagree

[torotoe]

but those teams suck and the Nuggets dont. Who cares how old they are? OKC has a young core too. Should they not try and upgrade their team because they are building because their best players are kids?

Denver is another premier player from contending esp this year when so many West powers are down.

I agree and disagree that Denver is one premier player away from contending. We are NOT going to be a contender if we have to give up Gallo, Ty, McGee or especially Faried. The Nuggets have to find a way to make a trade while keeping the core unless a true upgrade comes along. And Iggy is better off here too.

I'll agree to disagree with you about the talent they give up and how "small-market" clubs should operate.

I mentioned the tax in my first post as a reason for them not to do it but that I wasnt going to run the numbers as OP should have done so. I agree that hitting the tax becomes a problem for them as they have so many players locked into longterm deals.

Nuggets fans on the trade board have been trying to express this for some time...

[ptsuperfly]

Nugs vote no. Javale is amazing. Gasol will be dead by the time the other young players develop.

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[N.O.R.E.]

I vote no as well, the Nuggets aren't interested in making the Lakers unbeatable, while potentially getting worse themselves.