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OT: Wisconsin vs Ohio State

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Re: OT: Wisconsin vs Ohio State 

Post#121 » by Bucksfans1and2 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:55 pm

gbmb34 wrote:It's really eerie how similar Dick Bennett and Bo Ryan are to Barry Alvarez and Bret Bielema.

Bennett gets all the fan love because he went to the Final Four. Alvarez is loved because he won 3 Rose Bowls. But if you compare their resumes to Ryan and BB, they aren't close. Bennett and Alvarez deserve tons of credit for helping their UW basketball and football rise from the ashes, but Ryan and BB have been so much better than those other 2 by any objective measure except for the postseason, which IMO matters much less in college than say in the pros.

Wouldn't it be something if UW is able to win the Rose Bowl this year with BY FAR their weakest team of the past 3 seasons?


what did I just read?
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Re: OT: Wisconsin vs Ohio State 

Post#122 » by Kerb Hohl » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:19 am

I think there is a bit of a romanticized view of Barry. That guy had a ton of tactical errors and got his ass handed to him several times.

I'm not saying that I would agree with somebody that puts BB in the as good or better category as Alvarez literally rebuilt the program and BB was handed the keys to something pretty good, but I do think that Alvarez's ability to coach is a bit overrated. I can't give you specific examples but I specifically recall a lot of games where I was throwing things at the TV because of how he called games.

Obviously, the one stat that really matters to most is 3-0 vs. 0-2 in the Rose Bowls, but I also think that last year's Oregon squad was about 5x better than any of the teams Alvarez beat, though 1998 UCLA was pretty good.

Barry built the team but I recall A LOT of Barry's teams underachieving and getting ass-hammered by top 10 Michigan/OSU/PSU types.

There were several years in the early 2000s where we didn't have a winning record in conference. It all comes down to their ability to get a competent QB with some seniority in or have some sort of epic running/defensive presence for them to have success. I think both sucked tactically on the whole.
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Re: OT: Wisconsin vs Ohio State 

Post#123 » by El Duderino » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:37 am

GrendonJennings wrote:I think the two reasons we always seem to be right underneath OSU is:

1. Wisconsin has a decent football base but Ohio is better. Plus, the surrounding states are better than what we have.
2. Money. The Badgers I believe are way up there in spending but OSU spends a few more bucks on their program.


OSU not only has vastly superior tradition to recruit nationally, the state of Ohio ranks in at least the top 10 and maybe the top 5 in churning out high school talent.

One other thing that hurts Wisconsin is that the City Conference here in Milwaukee sucks and doesn't put out more talent to recruit. It's the biggest urban area in the state, yet only here and there produces a quality recruit or two. Coaches at OSU don't have that problem. They can often pass on some in-state recruits that UW would be all over if those kids were playing in Wisconsin.
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Re: OT: Wisconsin vs Ohio State 

Post#124 » by El Duderino » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:00 am

GrendonJennings wrote:I think there is a bit of a romanticized view of Barry. That guy had a ton of tactical errors and got his ass handed to him several times.

I'm not saying that I would agree with somebody that puts BB in the as good or better category as Alvarez literally rebuilt the program and BB was handed the keys to something pretty good, but I do think that Alvarez's ability to coach is a bit overrated. I can't give you specific examples but I specifically recall a lot of games where I was throwing things at the TV because of how he called games.

Obviously, the one stat that really matters to most is 3-0 vs. 0-2 in the Rose Bowls, but I also think that last year's Oregon squad was about 5x better than any of the teams Alvarez beat, though 1998 UCLA was pretty good.

Barry built the team but I recall A LOT of Barry's teams underachieving and getting ass-hammered by top 10 Michigan/OSU/PSU types.

There were several years in the early 2000s where we didn't have a winning record in conference. It all comes down to their ability to get a competent QB with some seniority in or have some sort of epic running/defensive presence for them to have success. I think both sucked tactically on the whole.


Of all three Rose Bowl wins, to this day i still have a hard time believing the Badgers actually got to and then won a Rose Bowl with Mike Samuel at quarterback. He was a terrible passer overall and i remember being blown away how often our option plays worked that year for huge first downs. What blew me away was i remember that Samuel almost never pitched the ball on the option calls, yet defenders kept also playing the running back. How did the defenders not catch on that Samuel kept the ball nearly every time the option was run?

As for Barry losing to the better teams, my memory was that he actually was pretty good against the good teams. Instead, it was to many bad losses to teams like Minnesota, Indiana, Northwestern, Illinois, etc that hurt him most. There were also some ugly non-conference losses like being destroyed twice by Colorado, that year UNLV whipped us at home, and a terrible Cincinnati team the year Wisconsin easily could have finished undefeated.
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Re: OT: Wisconsin vs Ohio State 

Post#125 » by Kerb Hohl » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:04 pm

Upon further review, you're right about that. A lot of depressing losses to bad teams in the Alvarez era. I do seem to remember a few years where we got up 9-0 and got trounced by teams as well but I think Alvarez's tenure's losses were mostly disappointing ones to teams that were not that good.

For the few recent ones I remember, it was decent/good conference foes:

2004 we were undefeated and got stomped by MSU and lost out for the season to Iowa and Georgia.

2005 there was momentum for a Rose Bowl with one loss and a good team until Tamba Hali destroyed us in Penn State.

Looking back to the 90s results I remember a lot of those brutal losses to mediocre/bad teams.

Bielema so far has dodged some serious bullets in Cal Poly, Northern Iowa, Utah State, etc. Those would have been even worse.
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Re: OT: Wisconsin vs Ohio State 

Post#126 » by HurricaneKid » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:50 pm

IMO, its ridiculously hard to build a program. And make no mistake about it, Alvarez built that team out of the ashes. They were running the Morton wishbone and near the bottom of the Big10 year in and year out. Alvarez got the city and state to buy in and invest in the program; he built it to what it is today.
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Re: OT: Wisconsin vs Ohio State 

Post#127 » by Run-MKE 311 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:26 pm

Rough ending, ugly game between two teams that played poorly.

Not looking forward to having to face Urban Meyer teams going forward, lots of speed and talent.
Ball so hard.

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