OKC look better without Harden

spudwebb · Post #1 » by **spudwebb** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:48 am

This team might be better with Martin down the line than Harden. He just opens up the floor with his shooting. You really don't need a player like Harden needs the ball in his hands when you have Westbrook and Durant.

Plus if Lamb pans out, you could put a smaller team that is very difficult to guard with Ibaka (who has an automatic mid-range when it's on), Durant at the 4, Lamb at the 3, Martin and Westbrook.

Money23 · Post #2 » by **Money23** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:52 am

too early to determine this........

CelticsRise · Post #3 » by **CelticsRise** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:54 am

Lol...come back again with another opinion after next game.

spudwebb · Post #4 » by **spudwebb** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:54 am

Also looking back, didn't realize Kevin Martin had 6 consecutive (albeit injury prone) 20-ppg seasons before McHale last year. He's still only 29.

Dr Aki · Post #5 » by **Dr Aki** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:01 am

we wont know until the playoffs

Goldtop · Post #6 » by **Goldtop** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:12 am

Martin is a proven scorer. So far all of Harden's scoring has come against bad teams. And when he goes against good teams he needs 20 attempts to get 20 pts and is a turnover machine.

Tirion · Post #7 » by **Tirion** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:16 am

Durant looks better without Harden

fixed it for ya.

really tho, this trade will be beneficial for Durant's long-term career prospects. He needs to take that next step to be more of a playmaker/facilitator and be on the ball more, if he ever wants to seriously challenge LeBron for best player crown and enter the "Top 10 players All-Time" club.

RatherUnique · Post #8 » by **RatherUnique** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:16 am

CelticsRise wrote:Lol...come back again with another opinion after next game.

CablexDeadpool · Post #9 » by **CablexDeadpool** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:19 am

Tirion wrote:
Durant looks better without Harden

fixed it for ya.

really tho, this trade will be beneficial for Durant's long-term career prospects. He needs to take that next step to be more of a playmaker/facilitator and be on the ball more, if he ever wants to seriously challenge LeBron for best player crown and enter the "Top 10 players All-Time" club.

He really really shouldn't dude is super turnover prone.

What he needs to do is play in the post more not dribble.

Goldtop wrote:Martin is a proven scorer. So far all of Harden's scoring has come against bad teams. And when he goes against good teams he needs 20 attempts to get 20 pts and is a turnover machine.

And that is called the Monta Ellis effect, Monta Ellis was fine as a third option, super efficient and suddenly now he's the star and he shoots 43 to 45 percent after being a 50 percent shooter.

Bskey · Post #10 » by **Bskey** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:23 am

I'm really confused as to why Durant is trying so hard to be a playmaker though. Westbrook should be doing that... and Durant should be doing what he does best. It's like they have it backwards.

CablexDeadpool · Post #11 » by **CablexDeadpool** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:27 am

Bskey wrote:I'm really confused as to why Durant is trying so hard to be a playmaker though. Westbrook should be doing that... and Durant should be doing what he does best. It's like they have it backwards.

Because Durant wants to be a "complete player" and Russell Westbrook "needs to score"

Durant needs to just shoot and play in the post and rebound.

Westbrook needs to score and pass.

Actually though Westbrook hasn't be en shooting well but he's averaging 8.5 assists and 3 turnovers.

fallacy · Post #12 » by **fallacy** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:33 am

Martin has to slow down at some point right? People said he couldn't sustain it after one week, after two weeks, and now we've hit three weeks with him continuing to improve his shooting.

After three weeks, Martin is dominating with a line of: 18 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists, and 1.3 steals. That's not bad for a guy only getting 30 minutes a game right? Now here's where things get absurd and ridiculous...

His shooting line is 49%/54%/95% with a NBA-leading 71 TS%. Let's not forget a 62 eFg%, 22.5 PER, and 129 Offensive Rating.

He obviously can't keep this up, right? Right?! If he does though, this possibly could be the greatest shooting performance in NBA history

Tirion · Post #13 » by **Tirion** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:35 am

CablexDeadpool wrote:
Tirion wrote:
Durant looks better without Harden

fixed it for ya.

really tho, this trade will be beneficial for Durant's long-term career prospects. He needs to take that next step to be more of a playmaker/facilitator and be on the ball more, if he ever wants to seriously challenge LeBron for best player crown and enter the "Top 10 players All-Time" club.

He really really shouldn't dude is super turnover prone.

What he needs to do is play in the post more not dribble.

He's below average in turnover rate, but he will improve and adjust. There will be some growing pains short-term no doubt.

fallacy · Post #14 » by **fallacy** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:37 am

Now more on topic with OKC, i'm now convinced that David Stern is forcing Brooks to continue to play Perkins just to be fair to the rest of the NBA. Thanks to the amazing website 82games, we can see how each five man unit plays.

Let's take a look at OKC's starting five with Perkins and Sefolosha, and no Martin.

.93 offensive rating and a .96 defensive rating with a +/- of -10 and a eFg% of .422

That's pure ****. I'm not going to look at every NBA team, but that has to be one of the worst starting lineups in the NBA. You're probably wondering how the Thunder could have a 75% winning percentage with the worst starting lineup in the NBA? I'll tell you how. When you put Ibaka at center and Durant at PF and you bring Martin into the game, the Thunder might possess the best lineup in the NBA.

Let's take a look at the Thunder's most played five group without perkins, which is Westbrook-Martin-Sefolosha-Durant-Ibaka. This lineup puts up these absurd numbers:

1.27 Offensive rating and a .86 defensive rating with a +/- of +19 and a eFg% of .667

If this lineup played all 48 minutes in the game for the Thunder, the Thunder would win games by an average of around 35 points a game.

TL;DR: The Thunder continue to play Perkins because they don't want to be unfair to the rest of the NBA

Guy986 · Post #15 » by **Guy986** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:39 am

His shooting % are absolutely absurd. Completely unsustainable.

fallacy · Post #16 » by **fallacy** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:43 am

Guy986 wrote:His shooting % are absolutely absurd. Completely unsustainable.

I agree. This season he's having so far makes Reggie Miler and Ray Allen look like Kwame Brown

witnessraps · Post #17 » by **witnessraps** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:44 am

presti's a genius

lilojmayo · Post #18 » by **lilojmayo** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:54 am

fallacy wrote:
Guy986 wrote:His shooting % are absolutely absurd. Completely unsustainable.

I agree. This season he's having so far makes Reggie Miler and Ray Allen look like Kwame Brown

OJ Mayo says hi

OJ 49/59/86 on more 3 pointers.
Martin 49/55/95

one is a #1 option that receives double teams, another is a 3rd option that gets open looks.

Goldtop · Post #19 » by **Goldtop** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:57 am

CablexDeadpool wrote:
Goldtop wrote:Martin is a proven scorer. So far all of Harden's scoring has come against bad teams. And when he goes against good teams he needs 20 attempts to get 20 pts and is a turnover machine.

And that is called the Monta Ellis effect, Monta Ellis was fine as a third option, super efficient and suddenly now he's the star and he shoots 43 to 45 percent after being a 50 percent shooter.

Its generally a bad idea in all sports when you try to take a complimentary piece from a winning team and think he can be the primary piece on another team with the same success.

When you think about it, how many 6th men in history can you think of that went to another team as the main guy and ever led them into contenders?

Some players are made for certain roles. If you aquire them its best to keep them in that same role they had success in. When you pay them max money though you have no choice but to make them the main guy. The end result is usually a guy who puts up a lot of pts, but does it on a lot shots, and doesn't lead their team anywhere.

fallacy · Post #20 » by **fallacy** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:58 am

lilojmayo wrote:
fallacy wrote:
Guy986 wrote:His shooting % are absolutely absurd. Completely unsustainable.

I agree. This season he's having so far makes Reggie Miler and Ray Allen look like Kwame Brown

OJ Mayo says hi

OJ 49/59/86 on more 3 pointers.
Martin 49/55/95

one is a #1 option that receives double teams, another is a 3rd option that gets open looks.

Martin has a much higher ts% and a higher PER, OffRtg, and eFg%; so he still wins. But yes, OJ is having an absurd season as well.