Pacers at Wizards tonight at Verizon

[fishercob]

Hi.

If anyone is ever worried that they might be getting too smart, I highly recommend reading a few pages of one of these game threads and you'll be all better.

Observations from section 110 (and a friend gave me his ticket stubs in the 5th row when he left so I got to move down even further in the second half):

1) I really like Beal. I love his body language for a 19-year old. I love that he's able to play through contact. I love his defense and headiness. He's strong as hell -- doesn't look at all physically overmatched (unlike Vesely). 18 points on 12 shots is nice efficiency. I think he will find or improve his shooting stroke. I think he's going to be really, really good.

2) Livingston had some terrible shots early in the shot clock last night. We could get his elbow jumper or fadeaway in the post anytime we want. I was hoping our heady pure point guard would actually try to get us a better shot before calling his own number so early in the clock.

3) Seraphin needs a shrink. Also, his shooting touch is nice and he defends the pick and roll well. But I'm getting frustrated with his allergy to rebounding and the free throw line. He'll use his physicality and strength to get post position, but then never powers through the defender to draw a foul. His hooks are good enough that he must develop the McHale up and under as a counter so he can start drawing some fouls on opposing bigs.


4) The second half run was fun. People who go to the games are so f*cking starved for something to cheer about. And very often with this group the effort is there. The talent just isn't.

5) I feel bad for Vesely when I watch him get tossed around like a rag doll. With his weak base (rememeber the pic doc or monte posted of him after he was drafted) he's never going to be able to hold his position and isn't going to have much of an NBA career. He's as bad of a mid-lotto pick as Rafael Aruajo.

6) For stretches tonight we had a 19-year old and four fifth options (Barron, Vesely, Singleton and Price) on the floor together. FAAAAANtastic!

[Nivek]

The CSN post-game show is atrocious. They ramble from the inane to the misleading to the head-slappingly stupid. I was watching it the other night while my wife -- who knows NOTHING about basketball -- was reading. At one point she looked up and said, "What are they talking about? Is it as stupid as it sounds?"

YES!

It's like watching a kindergarten class run by 4th graders. Would it be so difficult to have some actual analysis?

[noworriesinmd]

Hi.

If anyone is ever worried that they might be getting too smart, I highly recommend reading a few pages of one of these game threads and you'll be all better.

Observations from section 110 (and a friend gave me his ticket stubs in the 5th row when he left so I got to move down even further in the second half):

1) I really like Beal. I love his body language for a 19-year old. I love that he's able to play through contact. I love his defense and headiness. He's strong as hell -- doesn't look at all physically overmatched (unlike Vesely). 18 points on 12 shots is nice efficiency. I think he will find or improve his shooting stroke. I think he's going to be really, really good.

I like Beal too, I was at the game also..section 100. I don't think he is a bust. I think he is young and still figuring out the game. He should have stayed in school 1 more year (said from someone who probably would have come out too with the 3rd pick). He has flashes of skill, but he does not elevate well (not sure if it is conditioning). At times he doesn't look fast...but then other times he looks like he has moves to get to the basket. Toward the 3-4 quarters he was constantly getting double screens and trying to hitting shots coming off those screens. When his confidence goes up, he'll hit a lot of those. However, I still think Beal disappears for large stretches of the game.

2) Livingston had some terrible shots early in the shot clock last night. We could get his elbow jumper or fadeaway in the post anytime we want. I was hoping our heady pure point guard would actually try to get us a better shot before calling his own number so early in the clock.

There were some ill-adviced shots from Livingston, but overall he ran the point very well. We had our big run from 20 down with him in the game. When Denver had that big lead you could tell the team was close to giving up. Livingston calmed everything down. Wall will do the same.

4) The second half run was fun. People who go to the games are so f*cking starved for something to cheer about. And very often with this group the effort is there. The talent just isn't.

The Verizon Center could be rockin EVERY night if they had the horses. I don't blame the players. I was disappointed when the boo birds came out at the end. It's not the coaching. It's not the players. This is a poorly assembled team with non-starters being called starters. I can't boo when this team plays very hard 90% of the time. The team, as assembled, CAN'T WIN. This is totally Ernie's fault.

5) I feel bad for Vesely when I watch him get tossed around like a rag doll. With his weak base (rememeber the pic doc or monte posted of him after he was drafted) he's never going to be able to hold his position and isn't going to have much of an NBA career. He's as bad of a mid-lotto pick as Rafael Aruajo.

I feel bad for him too. The other team was tossing him around. He gets lots of fouls because he gets frustrated and does not know how to hide the contact. I'm not sure if the calls are because the refs are targeting him, because he needs to learn how to "bang" properly, or he very undersized and trying to overcompensate. There are a lot of "no calls" on Vesely. He was literally thrown down 2-3 times w/ zero calls in his favor. I even saw an elbow to his chest on a Young shot.

6) For stretches tonight we had a 19-year old and four fifth options (Barron, Vesely, Singleton and Price) on the floor together. FAAAAANtastic!

The only thing that got me hyped at the end was that they decided Beal or bust. I liked that.

[fishercob]

Hi.

If anyone is ever worried that they might be getting too smart, I highly recommend reading a few pages of one of these game threads and you'll be all better.

Observations from section 110 (and a friend gave me his ticket stubs in the 5th row when he left so I got to move down even further in the second half):

1) I really like Beal. I love his body language for a 19-year old. I love that he's able to play through contact. I love his defense and headiness. He's strong as hell -- doesn't look at all physically overmatched (unlike Vesely). 18 points on 12 shots is nice efficiency. I think he will find or improve his shooting stroke. I think he's going to be really, really good.

I like Beal too, I was at the game also..section 100. I don't think he is a bust. I think he is young and still figuring out the game. He should have stayed in school 1 more year (said from someone who probably would have come out too with the 3rd pick). He has flashes of skill, but he does not elevate well (not sure if it is conditioning). At times he doesn't look fast...but then other times he looks like he has moves to get to the basket. Toward the 3-4 quarters he was constantly getting double screens and trying to hitting shots coming off those screens. When his confidence goes up, he'll hit a lot of those. However, I still think Beal disappears for large stretches of the game.

Still, eh? 9 games into his pro career playing alongside Jordan Crawford and the Garbagetime All-Stars, he's still disappearing?

I said it this summer repeatedly a -- look at rookie numbers for other teenaged guards and then adjust your expectations for Beal this year accordingly.

[closg00]

The CSN post-game show is atrocious. They ramble from the inane to the misleading to the head-slappingly stupid. I was watching it the other night while my wife -- who knows NOTHING about basketball -- was reading. At one point she looked up and said, "What are they talking about? Is it as stupid as it sounds?"

YES!

It's like watching a kindergarten class run by 4th graders. Would it be so difficult to have some actual analysis?

You know the deal Kevin, these "analyst/reporters" cannot bite the hand that feeds them. In order to continue to enjoy access to the players, coaches, and GM, all of these media guys have to watch what they say and write.
Thankfully, the opinion guys (Jason Reid and others) have begun calling-out he Wizards org. Overall, the basketball analysis is pretty atrocious on TV and Radio.

[payitforward]

...Its not that complicated.

...There are lots of combination that can work....

Deck chairs. Titanic. Etc.

[Nivek]

The CSN post-game show is atrocious. They ramble from the inane to the misleading to the head-slappingly stupid. I was watching it the other night while my wife -- who knows NOTHING about basketball -- was reading. At one point she looked up and said, "What are they talking about? Is it as stupid as it sounds?"

YES!

It's like watching a kindergarten class run by 4th graders. Would it be so difficult to have some actual analysis?

You know the deal Kevin, these "analyst/reporters" cannot bite the hand that feeds them. In order to continue to enjoy access to the players, coaches, and GM, all of these media guys have to watch what they say and write.
Thankfully, the opinion guys (Jason Reid and others) have begun calling-out he Wizards org. Overall, they basketball analysis is pretty atrocious.

See here's the thing -- analysis doesn't need to be personally critical. They don't need to say, "Wittman is an idiot..." (or whatever). They could point out that some of Wittman's lineup choices are questionable -- such as inserting the team's least productive player (Vesely) into the starting lineup.

They don't need to stop praising Jordan Crawford's "fight" (which I like), but they could point out that his shot selection is awful and that his inefficiency hurts the team. They could talk about the need for Crawford's "fight" to get smarter so that he can actually help the team maybe get a win.

I hear them mention the Wiz getting their butts kicked on the boards, but I haven't heard them mention that Seraphin is rebounding like a SG this season.

Their commentary is relentlessly positive. And while I understand the urge, it's not credible considering the team's record.

Glenn Consor does a good job of walking this line on the radio post-game. He talks about stuff the team needs to do to get better; he talks about things individual players need to do.

Also, having been a media guy who went into the locker room...there is an element of not biting the hand that feeds you, but that element is pretty small. I wrote plenty of negative stuff about the team -- and said it as a guest on Scott Jackson's post-game show -- and never saw my access reduced. Every now and then someone might say something, but usually in a kinda joking way (like, "Dang, you really ripped me a new one...") and then we'd move on to the next thing.

The key part of maintaining access (at least in my experience) was to be fair, to not betray any confidences (if a guy says "off the record" it doesn't get reported), and to not get personal. Criticize the performance, not the person.

Biggest pushback I ever got on stuff I wrote was from family members of the player. That generally turned around pretty quickly. In a few instances, those family members became...not exactly friends...but contacts at least -- people who would provide information and insight that I couldn't get elsewhere.

This post turned out a lot longer than I thought it would be. Sorry about that.

[closg00]

Totally agree Kevin, I think Laron Profit was the last good hoops analyst I heard on TV or radio.

[TGW]

On a side note, we just had a 17-page thread on an 0-9 team.

No one can ever claim Wizards fans are "sucky." Well, not on this board at least. We are a loyal bunch--I wish we would get rewarded for that.

[payitforward]

My posts are in response to people getting on EG about the trade and what he got for the Lewis contract. Given Ted did not want to buy out Lewis, what better deal was out there for the Lewis contract ?

I don't believe for a moment that you've been responding along that line. You applauded the trade repeatedly over the Summer. It was, you said, a good trade in many, many ways.

But, even if -- rewriting history -- you'd like to defend Ernie by saying his hands were tied, you really don't have much to stand on:

1. What makes you sure this was the only deal around? You don't know whether there were other deals available.

2. If this was the only deal -- no other way of any kind to take any action -- what does that tell you about NO's eagerness to dump Okafor and Ariza. In order to rebuild "through youth and the draft" (weren't we supposed to be doing that?). No, Ernie said pretty clearly that...

3. We acquired Okaforiza because a) they are proven, good players and b) they provide veteran leadership. Ted crowed about how we turned "a sunk cost" into "value." Given that Ted can't possibly be foolish enough to think that *he* can assess relative player value, it's clear enough that he was relying on Ernie's assessment.

4. There was another "deal" around -- keep Lewis. Pay him his money, be happy that the trade for him got your franchise out from under Gil's longer contract, and move forward in the 10-point plan to "rebuild through youth and the draft."

We're a bad team. We were bad last year. We were bad the year before. We were bad before that. Etc. Bringing in veterans on the down-slope of their career, and taking on twice Lewis's salary obligation to do it, no that's not really a way you build a good team.

That trade was ridiculous from the get-go. Many of us saw that it was. You thought it was a good move -- own up to it.

I'm wrong about stuff (Landry Fields isn't exactly making me look like a genius!! ). So is everybody. In this case, you were. Is there some kind of prohibition against admitting it?

[GhostsOfGil]

Wall looks fat

Wall posted a pic on instagram working out with his shirt off. No need to worry about any weight issues.

On a side note, we just had a 17-page thread on an 0-9 team.

No one can ever claim Wizards fans are "sucky." Well, not on this board at least. We are a loyal bunch--I wish we would get rewarded for that.

Had the same thought last night during the game. Have a lot of respect for the guys around here who remain loyal at times like this.. even if it's ridiculously idiotic to do so.

[Nivek]

My posts are in response to people getting on EG about the trade and what he got for the Lewis contract. Given Ted did not want to buy out Lewis, what better deal was out there for the Lewis contract ?

I don't believe for a moment that you've been responding along that line. You applauded the trade repeatedly over the Summer. It was, you said, a good trade in many, many ways.

But, even if -- rewriting history -- you'd like to defend Ernie by saying his hands were tied, you really don't have much to stand on:

1. What makes you sure this was the only deal around? You don't know whether there were other deals available.

2. If this was the only deal -- no other way of any kind to take any action -- what does that tell you about NO's eagerness to dump Okafor and Ariza. In order to rebuild "through youth and the draft" (weren't we supposed to be doing that?). No, Ernie said pretty clearly that...

3. We acquired Okaforiza because a) they are proven, good players and b) they provide veteran leadership. Ted crowed about how we turned "a sunk cost" into "value." Given that Ted can't possibly be foolish enough to think that *he* can assess relative player value, it's clear enough that he was relying on Ernie's assessment.

4. There was another "deal" around -- keep Lewis. Pay him his money, be happy that the trade for him got your franchise out from under Gil's longer contract, and move forward in the 10-point plan to "rebuild through youth and the draft."

We're a bad team. We were bad last year. We were bad the year before. We were bad before that. Etc. Bringing in veterans on the down-slope of their career, and taking on twice Lewis's salary obligation to do it, no that's not really a way you build a good team.

That trade was ridiculous from the get-go. Many of us saw that it was. You thought it was a good move -- own up to it.

I'm wrong about stuff (Landry Fields isn't exactly making me look like a genius!! ). So is everybody. In this case, you were. Is there some kind of prohibition against admitting it?

Worth noting that New Orleans found another deal using the Wizards cap room: they traded for Ryan Anderson -- a mature young PF who plays hard, works hard, and...shockingly...has been more productive for New Orleans than either Okafor or Ariza have been for the Wizards.

Dunno, maybe the Wizards could have used that cap space in a similar fashion.

[dobrojim]

The CSN post-game show is atrocious. They ramble from the inane to the misleading to the head-slappingly stupid. I was watching it the other night while my wife -- who knows NOTHING about basketball -- was reading. At one point she looked up and said, "What are they talking about? Is it as stupid as it sounds?"

YES!

It's like watching a kindergarten class run by 4th graders. Would it be so difficult to have some actual analysis?

curious having not seen this particular postgame if Christy Scott-Winters was on the show.

I have no use for Thompson or Chris what his name.

[dobrojim]

Hi.

If anyone is ever worried that they might be getting too smart, I highly recommend reading a few pages of one of these game threads and you'll be all better.

Observations from section 110 (and a friend gave me his ticket stubs in the 5th row when he left so I got to move down even further in the second half):

1) I really like Beal. I love his body language for a 19-year old. I love that he's able to play through contact. I love his defense and headiness. He's strong as hell -- doesn't look at all physically overmatched (unlike Vesely). 18 points on 12 shots is nice efficiency. I think he will find or improve his shooting stroke. I think he's going to be really, really good.

2) Livingston had some terrible shots early in the shot clock last night. We could get his elbow jumper or fadeaway in the post anytime we want. I was hoping our heady pure point guard would actually try to get us a better shot before calling his own number so early in the clock.

3) Seraphin needs a shrink. Also, his shooting touch is nice and he defends the pick and roll well. But I'm getting frustrated with his allergy to rebounding and the free throw line. He'll use his physicality and strength to get post position, but then never powers through the defender to draw a foul. His hooks are good enough that he must develop the McHale up and under as a counter so he can start drawing some fouls on opposing bigs.


4) The second half run was fun. People who go to the games are so f*cking starved for something to cheer about. And very often with this group the effort is there. The talent just isn't.

5) I feel bad for Vesely when I watch him get tossed around like a rag doll. With his weak base (rememeber the pic doc or monte posted of him after he was drafted) he's never going to be able to hold his position and isn't going to have much of an NBA career. He's as bad of a mid-lotto pick as Rafael Aruajo.

6) For stretches tonight we had a 19-year old and four fifth options (Barron, Vesely, Singleton and Price) on the floor together. FAAAAANtastic!

Hey Fish, didn't know you were there.

I went AND I wore a paper bag over my head for almost the whole game. I encourage
others to do the same. Maybe Ted will wake up when he sees how embarrassing it
is to be a Wizards fan right now.

During the 3rd quarter a Wiz official approached my seat and asked to talk to me.
I told them I was busy watching the game. Now I'm curious what they would have
said to me. I wonder if they will make another attempt to contact me. Gotta figure
they know who I am since I was sitting in MY seat. I walked around the concourse at
halftime and a couple folks wanted (and did) to take my picture.

[dobrojim]

Phil and Buck are as blind as bats. Livingston threw the ball at Hansbrough.

He did indeed.
If it is possible to commit an offensive flagrant foul, Hansbrough did on that play.
SL still needs to be smarter.

[Nivek]

Yeah, she's on the show. She's not bad in the host role. Thompson is awful.

[dobrojim]

Another moral victory in the bag, now to get my paper bag.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

talk is cheap, DO IT! I did.

[dobrojim]

wear it at a game!

[truwizfan4evr]

Yeah, she's on the show. She's not bad in the host role. Thompson is awful.

Why you think he's awful? People on comcast are bias you will never hear Steve/Phil/ Thompson say what they really want to say they just say everything positive witch aren't many for wizards. Wish they question are front office sometimes

[dobrojim]

Awesome. That is what I am wearing next game.

I am sorry to say, but you guys are wasting your time trying to think of different line-ups that are going to work. You are also fooling yourself if you think the team is going to be that much better with John Wall and Nene. Yeah, these guys might get us more open shots, but who is going to make those open shots on this team?? The thing is, the Wizards HAVE been getting open shots. They just cannot connect on a consistent basis because of a lack of shooters/scorers on this team. Unless John Wall has dramatically developed his jumpshot and Nene has suddenly become an offensive force, The Wiz will continue to struggle when they get back. This team is epically bad because of how Ernie Grunfeld put it together. It is the worse team in the league offensively. Unfortunately, I don't see that changing.

It's too bad, too, because at least this team puts in the effort most of the time and has some heart.

Do it! We need whole sections of Wizards fan attired similarly.