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MIN - PHX

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MIN - PHX 

Post#1 » by shrink » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:20 pm

I'm curious to see a discussion over this:

PHX GETS: Pekovic + Derrick Williams + ????

MIN GETS: Gortat + Dudley + ????


Which center fits better with what Adelman's trying to do? With Love?

Which team has to add value to a deal like this?
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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#2 » by C.lupus » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:38 pm

This is an easy no from Minnesota. Pekovic is better than Gortat (and a year younger) and Dudley is at his peak right now while Williams is just starting his second year. Phoenix would have to throw in much more for me to bite.
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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#3 » by Klomp » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:52 pm

shrink wrote:I'm curious to see a discussion over this:

PHX GETS: Pekovic + Derrick Williams + ????

MIN GETS: Gortat + Dudley + ????


Which center fits better with what Adelman's trying to do? With Love?

Which team has to add value to a deal like this?

I would definitely consider it. Another trading piece could be the 1st we owe them from the Wes Johnson deal.

Gortat makes almost half of what it will take to resign Pek for similar production. Williams for Dudley is fairly even as well, both in production and salary. Derrick's potential is why I would hope for the pick returned.
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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#4 » by Krapinsky » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:57 pm

I don't know if Pekovic is clearly better than Gortat. Gortat is pretty good. I'd probably pass because I don't think it makes us that much better, if at all, at the sake of ruining our good team chemistry.

Not to mention, Pek is fan favorite, a class act, a coach favorite, he likes MN, and I really would hate to see him go.
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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#5 » by Esohny » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:00 pm

Klomp wrote:
shrink wrote:I'm curious to see a discussion over this:

PHX GETS: Pekovic + Derrick Williams + ????

MIN GETS: Gortat + Dudley + ????


Which center fits better with what Adelman's trying to do? With Love?

Which team has to add value to a deal like this?

I would definitely consider it. Another trading piece could be the 1st we owe them from the Wes Johnson deal.

Gortat makes almost half of what it will take to resign Pek for similar production. Williams for Dudley is fairly even as well, both in production and salary. Derrick's potential is why I would hope for the pick returned.


Gortat has one more year left on his deal where he'll be underpaid. You seriously think he's not going to get paid like a starting center with his next contract? The savings will be minimal for some downgrade in production. No thanks.
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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#6 » by Worm Guts » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:03 pm

Klomp wrote:Gortat makes almost half of what it will take to resign Pek for similar production.


Sure, but for only one more year and then he'll be an unrestricted FA. We at least have some control with Pek.

Gortat and Pek are probably pretty close as players, but I'd rather stick with guy we got.
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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#7 » by C.lupus » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:10 pm

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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#8 » by Klomp » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:10 pm

Esohny wrote:Gortat has one more year left on his deal where he'll be underpaid. You seriously think he's not going to get paid like a starting center with his next contract? The savings will be minimal for some downgrade in production. No thanks.

We have only 23 million committed in salaries for 2014-15. It will be easier to extend at that time rather than extending Pek and maybe sacrificing someone like Budinger because we can't afford him.

Not saying I'd definitely do it, but you have to look at the finances. The talent swapped is fairly even.
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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#9 » by C.lupus » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:14 pm

Also for discussion: http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 02&y2=2013

I'm not seeing how this is even close, talent-wise.
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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#10 » by Worm Guts » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:17 pm

C.lupus wrote:Also for discussion: http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 02&y2=2013

I'm not seeing how this is even close, talent-wise.


That's only looking at this year, which consists of all of 10 games. Jared Dudley has been a quality player in previous seasons.
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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#11 » by C.lupus » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:37 pm

Yes, I realize it is a small sample size but we are talking this year's Dudley here. Also, he has never had more than an average PER in his career and is 27 years old so he has reached his peak, which was my original point. Williams is only 21 and is already at least equal to Dudley with much higher potential.


I should clarify , I like Gortat and Dudley. I just don't like the value in this trade.
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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#12 » by Krapinsky » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:43 pm

And does Phx really want to reassemble the 2011-2012 Timberwolves without Rubio and Love? Seems like a bad direction for them.
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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#13 » by Worm Guts » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:45 pm

I don't know that Williams is already equal to Dudley. Dudley is at least a reasonably efficient scorer and I think he's supposed to be a decent defender. Plus he's a better positional fit.
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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#14 » by Basti » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:13 pm

Haven't watched Gortat in ages but from what I've read he's highly dependable on someone setting him up. That shouldn't be much of a problem once the Rubester returns but I'd rather have Pek who can create shots for himself as long as he gets a good entry pass.

Not sure if Gortat's defense, which is superior to Pek's, no doubt, can offset the aforementioned concern of mine. And it's not like Pek is a revolving door on defense. He's been good this season and the team defense has been superb with and without Pek.

In conclusion, no.
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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#15 » by LordBaldric » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:21 pm

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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#16 » by Saltine » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:43 pm

No way, I'd much rather keep our guys. Unless we are getting unprotected lottery picks back, this makes no sense at all for us. And if we are, it still doesn't make much sense, we suck at drafting.
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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#17 » by shrink » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:16 am

1. The question marks in the original trade matter. If you think MIN is getting ripped off, add a talent equalizer. This deal was never meant to be a straight up trade.

2. I've heard Gortat is a better defender (fit with Love), and he's better at the pick and role. Pekovic is younger, stronger, and imho, has more upside. I personally think PHX adds a little value for the swap, but I think it fits team directions better.

3. From what I know of Dudley (and I have to admit, I never watch PHX, so feel free to correct me), is that he's pretty good defender, and a good spot up shooter that can play SG. That seems like a fit too. I think williams is worth more, but he's a nice piece for PHX, with upside, hometown boy, and they don't have anyone doing well at SF or PF

4. One thought I had was to bring back the MIN 1st. Perhaps we could ask for even more value if we were also willing to add a Roy for Channing Frye. so that cheap Sarver knows he can get out of Frye's deal if he hasn't recovered from the heart problem by next season.
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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#18 » by Krapinsky » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:29 am

I think just about everyone said they'd prefer Pek over Gortat, so I think you might as well take those guys out and look at:

Williams + ?
Dudley + ?

I know this is just what you've heard, but I don't agree with the notion that Gortat is better at the pick n' roll or a better defender than Pek. I was hoping to get synergy to load to look at their scoring efficiency out of the p n' r, but I can't get that to load right now. And defenively, I'm not sure Gortat is better either. Pek may not block a lot of shots, but he's great at clogging up the lane, a very good man defender, and good at guarding the pick n' roll.
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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#19 » by Calinks » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:18 am

Another tidbit to throw in here that I thought needs to be looked at.

Pekovic:

2010-2011 - Played in 65 out of 82 games.
2011-2012 - Played in 47 out of 66 games.
2012 so far - He has missed 2 out of 9 games.

Every season he misses roughly 20 percent of his games.

Gortat:

2010-2011 - Played in 80 out of 82 games.
2011-2012 - Played in 66 out of 66 games.
2012 so far - Has played in every game (11).

Gortat plays in roughly 90+ percent of of his game in recent seasons.

A player that isn't playing isn't producing. At possibly half the price and looking at similar production when both players are on the court. It's worth consideration.
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Re: MIN - PHX 

Post#20 » by Tirion » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:29 am

I tend to agree. The hidden caveat with PEK is that he might be injury-prone. We will see though.

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