James Harden is a superstar

Krodis · Post #721 » by **Krodis** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:18 am

I'm sure someone will try to find a reason why the Knicks aren't a good team.

Or I probably just jinxed Harden for the 2nd half.

Krodis · Post #722 » by **Krodis** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:20 am

MisterWestside wrote:
Krodis wrote:He's still doing well in +/-, and putting up 24.5 on .570 TS%. (And would probably be near 27 PPG if you take out the flu game). I don't know by who's standards that's "average".

The Rockets are playing better with him off the court than with him (mainly on offense).

But I mean, that has a lot to do with playing with Lin, Patterson, and Asik. He's doing better in on/off than the rest of the starting lineup.

MisterWestside · Post #723 » by **MisterWestside** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:23 am

Krodis wrote:But I mean, that has a lot to do with playing with Lin, Patterson, and Asik. He's doing better in on/off than the rest of the starting lineup.

Like I said, I agree with you on Harden. See my conclusion in the previous post.

LarsV8 · Post #724 » by **LarsV8** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:28 am

25 points on 8 shots tonight in the first half.

Thats 3+ points per shot which is absurd.

Post #725 » by **rrravenred** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:50 am

Through to five minues remaining in the third Harden has 28 on a TS% of .776. including 16/16 from the line.

(Knicks 9th rated in DRtg to date)

thizznation · Post #726 » by **thizznation** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:01 am

harden browses this thread on his smartphone before the game, using it as a motivational part of his pregame ritual.

Krodis · Post #727 » by **Krodis** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:18 am

33 points and 9 assists in a blowout win over the Knicks.

G35 · Post #728 » by **G35** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:01 am

Well this is going to go back and forth all season. Let's all play just as friendly when Harden throws up an egg. No more "let's just see how he's doing 20 games into the season". Harden supporters are just as recationary.....

Krodis · Post #729 » by **Krodis** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:10 am

I don't see how pointing out he had a good game today is reactionary. If we said that he had a good game today, thus he's automatically a superstar, that would be reactionary.

ahonui06 · Post #730 » by **ahonui06** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:06 am

This is a step in the right direction for James Harden going up against a staunch defense and succeeding. This is Harden's first solid game against a quality opponent. Harden needs to continue working with Parsons and Lin in forming a solid trio.

Krodis · Post #731 » by **Krodis** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 am

I think Harden, Parsons, and Asik are good. And Marcus Morris. But Lin either needs to get healthy or get good. He drives into all sorts of trouble and picks up his dribble in the worst places. Very little good seems to come when he's handling the ball instead of Harden or Parsons.

lilojmayo · Post #732 » by **lilojmayo** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:39 am

G35 wrote:Well this is going to go back and forth all season. Let's all play just as friendly when Harden throws up an egg. No more "let's just see how he's doing 20 games into the season". Harden supporters are just as recationary.....

This too early to tell, if Harden can lead the Rockets to the playoffs then that would be impressive, because they certainly werent a playoff team pre-Harden.

Post #733 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:37 pm

G35 wrote:Well this is going to go back and forth all season. Let's all play just as friendly when Harden throws up an egg. No more "let's just see how he's doing 20 games into the season". Harden supporters are just as recationary.....

We're 13 games in.

Were we to suddenly score 50 points in game 14, his scoring average would go from 25.2 up to 26.9, or roughly 2 whole points per game. A 40-point game would raise it +1 ppg. The variability of the numbers (the raw averages, the efficiency, etc), it's all still too volatile. It's nice to see, and him doing this against a top defense is definitely a mark in his favor after the struggles he experienced at the beginning of the season... but it's true, this one game is no more enlightening than any of the bad games he's had to date. Properly, this won't be a legitimate analysis until the end of the season, but at least by 20ish games, you're got roughly a quarter of the year behind you. The narrative can still change, of course. 40 games, at the break/60 games, end of season, there are a lot of milestones to hit as we watch his season play out.

Post #734 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:42 pm

OptimusOne6 wrote:I think he'll be similar to what Joe Johnson was in ATL.

Well, we can say this: he's already a better scorer than Johnson ever was.

I don't think he'll ever be as good overall and as well rounded as Joe was but I think he could be a better first option/offensive player than him.

He's already comparably well-rounded from an offensive perspective. It's true, however, that JJ was and remains a superior defensive player with a nice variety of skills. A little iso-heavy, not particularly efficient (only two seasons of 54%+ TS in Atlanta), not GREAT at anything, but he's a really solid #2 perimeter player. Harden... well, he sacrifices defensive value compared to JJ in exchange for considerably better scoring prowess and notably superior skills as a PnR player.

Krodis · Post #735 » by **Krodis** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:12 pm

Harden does seem to have his three point shot back. Up to 32% on the year. That's a good sign.

Rapcity_11 · Post #736 » by **Rapcity_11** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:42 pm

Scrolling back through this thread is **** hilarious. So many moronic comments.

G35 · Post #737 » by **G35** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:46 pm

Krodis wrote:I don't see how pointing out he had a good game today is reactionary. If we said that he had a good game today, thus he's automatically a superstar, that would be reactionary.

I can see your point but I disagree (which is how I wish many other posters would be instead of trying to completely invalidate someone's opinion). If you are saying that you are only reactionary when you make an extreme point like "Harden's a superstar after this game." But then to be fair it's no different than when people point out Harden's poor games.

Just because someone makes a point doesn't make them reactionary, it could just be pointing out that Harden is playing well/poorly. However for the pro-Harden guys when you point out his poor games it seems they are taking it personally which then brings out the reactionary comments.....

G35 · Post #738 » by **G35** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:53 pm

Krodis wrote:Harden does seem to have his three point shot back. Up to 32% on the year. That's a good sign.

Well I would point out the thread is if Harden is a superstar and most of the comments seem to be based on his shooting/efficiency. Is that how we define superstars now? What about rebounding, playmaking/getting teammates involved, takeover ability, transcendent skills, defense.s

Harden scoring 25ppg on TS% > 65% wouldn't make him a superstar imo. It would make him a very efficient shooter. There are a variety of factors that go into being a superstar and shooting is just one of them.....

Krodis · Post #739 » by **Krodis** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:21 pm

I mean, if Harden posted 25 PPG on above 65% TS%, that would be an absolutely incredible scoring year and it would take a lot of other things going against him for him not to be a superstar. As is, I don't think him being that efficient as a first option is likely. But he also is a good rebounder, and a very good playmaker for his position. He's not a great defender, but I don't think he's all that bad, not to the point where it's a huge negative. In terms of transcedental skills, his ability to get to the rim and to the line is pretty incredible.

Obviously we need to see more of him in more situations to make any definitive judgements though.

Post #740 » by **rrravenred** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:28 pm

Well, G35, there aren't many players who have put up those numbers, only McHale, Barkley, Dantley and Amare. I'm sort of comfortable on calling those players superstars (though of course, you can quibble on their overall value). It would be extremely unusual for a player putting up those sort of points on that sort of efficiency NOT being considered a top-tier NBA talent.

Agree that if you're looking at absolute creme de la creme of top-5 players you need more (for which Harden's best hope may be playmaking) but "Superstar" is a semantic argument, which is to a degree what this thread is all about.