Josh's Problem with Authority

[Jamaaliver]

It's pretty well known that Josh as a younger player often had run-ins with former Hawks coach Mike Woodson. Woody benched Smoove a couple of times for poor shot selection and (if memory serves) even suspended him a game many years ago.

When Larry Drew became head coach, a big selling point was the relationship he already had with Josh, Joe and the other members of our core. Drew has, on occasion, benched Josh for poor shot selection.
And I can only think of one instance where Josh visibly, verbally talked back to Drew as a result.

Yesterday, the ajc writeup mentioned 'a short but terse exchange as [Josh] was subbed out' between he and L Drew.

Given the fact that this isn't Josh's first flare up at a coach, or the fact that we turned a 5-point deficit into a 10-point lead while he was on the bench sulking, is this a red flag to anyone else?

Admittedly, he was benched for foul trouble as opposed to poor play this time. But is there any concern that our team captain and best player is having these moments during a winning streak? he's been struggling, but the team has been thriving in spite of him (without him).

I've been accused of 'hating' on Josh Smith in the past, so maybe it's just me. But I just don't want to see Josh throw L Drew under the bus the way Dwight threw SVG under the bus in Orlando.

[ATLHawksfan21]

I'm just going to assume that you are a troll from here on out.

[Geaux_Hawks]

I'm just going to assume that you are a troll from here on out.

Indeed. I can't count the.numerous amounts of times josh has brought us back into games or when leads are turned into deficits after he is subbed out the game.. He gripes and complains a lot just like many others do. Fortunately, he isn't a known problem child around the league. The only negative thing people say about him is that he shoots excessive jumpers. If he cuts that out, he'll be a 20/10 beast.

[Jamaaliver]

If he cuts that out, he'll be a 20/10 beast.

.....Even though 9 years in he's never avg 20 ppg OR 10 rpg in a season?

We still banking on potential?

[Jamaaliver]

I'm just going to assume that you are a troll from here on out.

So Josh yells at the coach in front of the other players even though we're winning, but it's okay?

Seriously?

PS I've been a a Hawks fan since before REALGM was around. Since before Josh was drafted.

And I've been a member here for 7+ years. The new guy doesn't get to just show up and designate other HAWKS FANS as 'trolls' just because they disagree on a subject.

This is an Atlanta Hawks fan site. Not a Josh Smith fan site. I think we've seen that no single player on this new Hawks team is irreplaceable.

And it's a simple question: Are Josh's multiple flareups with various coaches a concern? Especially when you consider that we're winning and he still gripes about playing time. Especially when you remember that he's a team captain...Especially when you factor in that he has requested to not play here on multiple occasions.

[dtown8]

It's pretty well known that Josh as a younger player often had run-ins with former Hawks coach Mike Woodson. Woody benched Smoove a couple of times for poor shot selection and (if memory serves) even suspended him a game many years ago.

When Larry Drew became head coach, a big selling point was the relationship he already had with Josh, Joe and the other members of our core. Drew has, on occasion, benched Josh for poor shot selection.
And I can only think of one instance where Josh visibly, verbally talked back to Drew as a result.

Yesterday, the ajc writeup mentioned 'a short but terse exchange as [Josh] was subbed out' between he and L Drew.

Given the fact that this isn't Josh's first flare up at a coach, or the fact that we turned a 5-point deficit into a 10-point lead while he was on the bench sulking, is this a red flag to anyone else?

Admittedly, he was benched for foul trouble as opposed to poor play this time. But is there any concern that our team captain and best player is having these moments during a winning streak? he's been struggling, but the team has been thriving in spite of him (without him).

I've been accused of 'hating' on Josh Smith in the past, so maybe it's just me. But I just don't want to see Josh throw L Drew under the bus the way Dwight threw SVG under the bus in Orlando.

[Jamaaliver]

Josh will break your heart, man....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt_n70wWLHE[/youtube]

[dtown8]

^

[MaceCase]

We should of traded him last season for a draft pick. Austin Rivers and Joe Johnson would of been a dynamic duo right now.

[Jamaaliver]

We should of traded him last season for a draft pick. Austin Rivers and Joe Johnson would of been a dynamic duo right now.

Hey, Damian Lillard is leading all rookies in scoring and asissts at 20 ppg and 6 apg.

And he makes $9 mill less than Josh.

And it's 'should've'. Not 'should of'.

[MaceCase]

Lottery standings at end of season.

Wizards 20-46
Cavaliers 21-45
Hornets 21-45
Kings 22-44
Nets 22-44
Warriors 23-43
Raptors 23-43
Pistons 25-41
Timberwolves 26-40

Hawks 40-26

Standings at March 15th trade deadline

Hornets 10-34
Wizards 10-32
Kings 14-29
Raptors 14-29
Nets 15-29
Pistons 16-27
Cavaliers 16-25
Warriors 18-22
Timberwolves 22-22

Hawks 24-19



So tell me again how a trade in the middle of March with 22 games left somehow becomes a direct swap of Josh Smith for Lillard 2 months later? Did your revisionist, hindsight, time and space warping machine make note of Joe Johnson's current performance either at his current and remaining salary? Don't let that brick wall of facts stop your fantasies though.

[dms269]

Calm down guys. Going out and personally attacking someone is not allowed...yall know this.

[ATLHawksfan21]

We should of traded him last season for a draft pick. Austin Rivers and Joe Johnson would of been a dynamic duo right now.

Hey, Damian Lillard is leading all rookies in scoring and asissts at 20 ppg and 6 apg.

And he makes $9 mill less than Josh.

And it's 'should've'. Not 'should of'.

You seem to have forgotten about our matchup against Portland this year where Teague shut the almighty Damian Lillard down. Teague is our PG of the future unless CP3 comes a calling.

Lillard was 5/18 for 12 points, 2 assists and 4 turnovers in that game. He also contributed a whopping -20 on the point differential.

Teague had 13 pts and 8 assists with a +13 pt differential.

[Jamaaliver]

You seem to have forgotten about our matchup against Portland this year where Teague shut the almighty Damian Lillard down.

Fair enough. If Teague outplayed him once in a game, clearly Teague is better.

[Jamaaliver]

But back to my main question:

Are Josh's multiple flareups with various coaches a concern?

I found this from Drew's first season as Head Coach.

From NBCSports in April 2011:

Larry Drew is on the hot seat for the Hawks but the bigger problem is that he may have lost the locker room because he could not control Smoove, Sam Amick reports at Sports Illustrated.

And then there is the not-so-obvious sensitive spot: the Josh Smith factor. Drew has been unable to stop the veteran from being a season-long disruption and undermining his position with his other players in the process. Add to that the relative affordability of cutting him loose (he’s owed $1.5 million for next season, lockout notwithstanding), and Drew is looking very vulnerable unless he can lead a deep postseason run.
Where is the veteran leadership on this team?

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/09/might-hawks-josh-smith-cost-coach-larry-drew-his-job/

Drew's team did go on a fairly long postseason run, saving his job. But the fact that Josh was underminig him then and is doing so again concerns me.

[Hood President]

You dumbasses are STILL falling for Jamaaliver bull? You guys haven't realize that he is a HUGE Josh Smith detractor and that almost 80% of his post in here are him complaining and being negative about Josh Smith. This guy is a true troll like Skip Bayless.

Check your messages. HMFFL

[Jamaaliver]

You dumbasses are STILL falling for Jamaaliver bull? You guys haven't realize that he is a HUGE Josh Smith detractor and that almost 80% of his post in here are him complaining and being negative about Josh Smith. This guy is a true troll like Skip Bayless.

Hood President, you are a gentleman and a scholar.

Your well chosen words have convinced me of the error of my ways.

Stay classy, dude.

Go Hawks....

[PandaKidd]

Ill participate with you Jamaaliver. Im a long time season ticket holder for the hawks and I actually go to games

2 years ago, when we lost to the bulls in the playoffs, I was very critical of Josh Smith.

Last year I saw a different side of Josh Smith. He came into the season in shape, lost some weight, and to me it looked like he was much more focused. I saw less complaining, less scowling, less whining. He had that stretch of games with JJ out where he went on a tear. Then the Boston series came and Old Josh showed back up. Jacking jumpers, and basically ended our season with a horrible 17 foot jump shot with tons of time on the clock. Even Wilbon tweeted about it. It left a sour taste in my mouth because after 9 years in the league, JOSH SMITH IS NOT A JUMP SHOOTER and he hasnt figured that out.

Then this season, ive kind of seen a regression. Hes back to the old whining, complaining, jawwing with the officials. Very rarely do i see Josh Smith make a bad decision on offense, and get back on defense to make up for it, or vice versa. Too often i see him trotting up and down the court, taking his time, or complaining when he misses an easy shot, or a jumper. Then I saw him argue with Drew and Im starting to think this is the beginning of the end.

Now in Smoovs defense, LD has been running some REALLY weird rotations with no consistency. I know the first 20 games of the year is usually finding out your starting 5 and then the rotation, so I can deal with it. Im starting to see that Smith just doesnt fit our offense. Hes not a GREAT passer, hes not running much in transition, only a handful of games this year have I seen him put his ass on the block and go to work. He seems to want to play outside more and more which just isnt his strengths.

He has had some very good games recently, so ill do what i normally do and give him to the 20 game mark before i really make an assessment. But right now, I dont see Smith fitting our offense, hes not our franchise player, hes a great talent, but I think he needs a change of scenery. So do we.

[Jamaaliver]

I appreciate such an articulate, well thought out repsonse pandakidd.

I agree with you, change is needed for both sides. Eight years is long enough.

Let's just hope D Ferry has seen everything you and I have.

[Geaux_Hawks]

If he cuts that out, he'll be a 20/10 beast.

.....Even though 9 years in he's never avg 20 ppg OR 10 rpg in a season?

We still banking on potential?

He's been in the league 9 years, but he was very raw coming out of high school. Billy Knight then picks Marvin, which adds to the glut of wings we had, and It didn't help that the Hawks always played small, forcing smith to get bigger and focus on playing the 4. Woodson imo was close to getting Smith to become discipline, but other than that, Smith hasn't had a coach instill discipline into him. He finally seemed to have put it together last year and had a monster stretch where he averaged some amazing numbers, in which he finished the season with like 19/9 and he still shot mid range shots. Just think if he ever decides to just drive or post up more instead of taking the deep 2. He frustrates the hell out of me, but I'd hate to see him play for a competent coach.