T or F: Gary Payton could lock down Michael Jordan.

[Jordan23Forever]

Completely false. A couple of points:

1) Jordan was completely off in the '96 Finals for whatever reason. Those suggesting it was Payton's defense need to explain why Jordan was missing WIDE OPEN layups, offensive putbacks, and baseline 16-footers all series long - hell, he even hit the side of the backboard on a baseline jumper attempt one game! And it wasn't fatigue, either - he was bricking these shots early in games as often as he did it late in games. It was just...odd. As someone who has watched hundreds of MJ games, this simply never happened to the degree it did in the '96 Finals. Had Jordan simply made the open shots he usually makes, we'd be looking at him shooting 45-47% for the series instead of 42%. Fact. All anyone has to do to confirm what I'm saying is to watch the series.

2) Speaking of the defense which was played on Jordan, the Sonics hounded MJ with multiple players at all times and swarmed him from various spots on the floor to get the ball out of his hands. So it was a team effort, not just Payton or whoever was guarding MJ at the time. Jordan usually made the right plays in terms of moving the ball, but...

3) The entire Bulls team shot like GARBAGE the entire series, so they couldn't make Seattle pay for focusing on Jordan or create spacing for him. Jordan's 2nd-4th options shot horribly (Pippen 34%, Kukoc 42%, Harper 38%, Kerr 30%), and this was despite the fact that they were scoring FAR less volume than Jordan and seeing far less defensive attention.

The first point is the largest factor imo. It was inexplicable to watch Jordan miss all these "gimme's" throughout the game. Perplexing.

[bledredwine]

Game 4: Jordan 6-19 FG
Game 5: Jordan 11-22 FG
game 6: 5-19 FG


u cant tell me Payton didnt do work on Jordan

Right just like Bruce Bowen exposed Lebron in the 2007 finals? and then Jason Terry?

Yeah, ok.

You obviously didn't watch the 96 series once.

[EGarrett]

Michael Jordan in 1991 Finals: 31.2, 11.4 assists, 55.8% FG
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... c_playoffs

Michael Jordan in 1992 Finals: 35.8, 6.5 assists, 52.6% FG
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... c_playoffs

Michael Jordan in 1993 Finals: 41.0, 6.3 assists 50.8% FG
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... c_playoffs

1996 (pre-Payton): 31.0, 5.0 assists, 46.0% FG
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... c_playoffs

1997: 32.3, 6.0 assists, 45.6% FG
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... c_playoffs

1998: 33.5, 2.3 assists, 42.7% FG
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... c_playoffs

This doesn't look like a man who randomly chokes and starts averaging 23 points on 35% shooting for no reason in the most important games of the season.

In fact, the pre-Payton numbers look quite similar to the 1997 and 1998 numbers.

[Joao Saraiva]

Game 4: Jordan 6-19 FG
Game 5: Jordan 11-22 FG
game 6: 5-19 FG


u cant tell me Payton didnt do work on Jordan

Right just like Bruce Bowen exposed Lebron in the 2007 finals? and then Jason Terry?

Yeah, ok.

You obviously didn't watch the 96 series once.

Wow you're such a hater. Nobody is talking about LeBron yet a Bulls fan always comes up with this. I wonder if you're still buthurt cause he didn't join your team in the decision.

[EGarrett]

Completely false. A couple of points:

1) Jordan was completely off in the '96 Finals for whatever reason. Those suggesting it was Payton's defense need to explain why Jordan was missing WIDE OPEN layups, offensive putbacks, and baseline 16-footers all series long - hell, he even hit the side of the backboard on a baseline jumper attempt one game! And it wasn't fatigue, either - he was bricking these shots early in games as often as he did it late in games. It was just...odd. As someone who has watched hundreds of MJ games, this simply never happened to the degree it did in the '96 Finals. Had Jordan simply made the open shots he usually makes, we'd be looking at him shooting 45-47% for the series instead of 42%. Fact. All anyone has to do to confirm what I'm saying is to watch the series.
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The first point is the largest factor imo. It was inexplicable to watch Jordan miss all these "gimme's" throughout the game. Perplexing.

You have to explain then why Jordan's free-throw percentage did not change at all during this stretch. In fact, in the 1996 Finals he shot a miniscule bit HIGHER than his career average. (83.6% compared to 83.5%)

[Joao Saraiva]

Payton did a good job and he had obviously something to do with slowing down MJ a little. That doesn't mean he could do it regularly. It was just trough those series. Also every player has here and there some series where he just doesn't deliver what is expected from him. That was also what happened with MJ.

I just wish MJ could have gone playing like this in 98 specially at game 6...

[SweetTouch]

lol at the excuses for MJ

so he had a bad serious, big deal

[Jordan23Forever]

The first point is the largest factor imo. It was inexplicable to watch Jordan miss all these "gimme's" throughout the game. Perplexing.

You have to explain then why Jordan's free-throw percentage did not change at all during this stretch. In fact, in the 1996 Finals he shot a miniscule bit HIGHER than his career average. (83.6% compared to 83.5%)[/quote]

I don't have to explain anything. Just watch the series. It's easy to see. You can't credit wide open misses of layups, putbacks, and 16-footers to a defense that wasn't even there. Period.

[sportjames23]

No one could shut down Jordan, but Payton probably did the best possible job on a big stage. A lot of people believe Seattle could've won the series had Payton been on Jordan from Game 1.

"locked up", "shut down"... no

"slow down"... yes

Also please define "a lot of people"...

This.

[sportjames23]

I love that series and have watched it many times over the years. There are a few factors to MJ's performances.

For the record, YES I think that Payton did the best of everyone, and Dumars would have a case if he didn't have to guard MJ in his prime (he's blazed the Pistons numerous times with Dumars and others covering).


1. MJ was simply not playing his best. He even said so himself in an interview after one of the games that he'd been missing a lot of shots that he would normally make.

2. Payton guarded him VERY well. Payton was in his prime at the time, and was an absolute pest. I consider him one of the GOAT guard defenders.

3. Karl had very good defenses on Jordan and swarmed him at times.

4. People overlook this but IMO the Bulls cruising and winning the first 3 games had a lot to do with this. Usually, you saw a furiously driven MJ. He didn't seem like a man on a mission as he normally is. I could be wrong, but I believe that winning the first 3 games made MJ actually play at a lower level. He probably knew they'd take the series.

Now keep in mind Payton had guarded MJ previously and MJ had done very well against him. George Karl had tried many things to tamper with MJ (look up the "George Karl" game).

And this.

Especially #4. People forget the Bulls rolled to a 3-0 lead. They simply took their feet off the gas and Seattle got back in the series in the next two games.

[sportjames23]

T or F: ____ could lock down Michael Jordan.

F.

And career-wise, I think Dumars did a better job than Payton.

Dumars did have a lot more occasions to guard MJ than GP did.

However, I think Dumars gets too much credit for defending MJ. Part of it is on MJ for stating the Joe played him well, and the media ran with it. If anything, the Bad Boys as a team played MJ well (duh). Once he got past Dumars, MJ had to contend with Laimbeer, Rodman, Mahorn or Salley to rough him up on his way to the basket.

[EGarrett]

The first point is the largest factor imo. It was inexplicable to watch Jordan miss all these "gimme's" throughout the game. Perplexing.

You have to explain then why Jordan's free-throw percentage did not change at all during this stretch. In fact, in the 1996 Finals he shot a miniscule bit HIGHER than his career average. (83.6% compared to 83.5%)

I don't have to explain anything. Just watch the series. It's easy to see. You can't credit wide open misses of layups, putbacks, and 16-footers to a defense that wasn't even there. Period.

If you're getting tired out by somebody hounding you relentlessly, or you're wondering where they are when you catch the ball, you can certainly miss gimme shots that would be seen as open.

That being said though...it's quite fishy that you claim that Jordan just happened to be off for no reason that series when he actually had quite normal stats for that time period pre-Payton and even dropped and his free throw percentage was perfectly normal. He even had 36 points on 47% shooting the game before Payton picked him up.

[primecougar]

Completely false. A couple of points:

1) Jordan was completely off in the '96 Finals for whatever reason. Those suggesting it was Payton's defense need to explain why Jordan was missing WIDE OPEN layups, offensive putbacks, and baseline 16-footers all series long - hell, he even hit the side of the backboard on a baseline jumper attempt one game! And it wasn't fatigue, either - he was bricking these shots early in games as often as he did it late in games. It was just...odd. As someone who has watched hundreds of MJ games, this simply never happened to the degree it did in the '96 Finals. Had Jordan simply made the open shots he usually makes, we'd be looking at him shooting 45-47% for the series instead of 42%. Fact. All anyone has to do to confirm what I'm saying is to watch the series.

2) Speaking of the defense which was played on Jordan, the Sonics hounded MJ with multiple players at all times and swarmed him from various spots on the floor to get the ball out of his hands. So it was a team effort, not just Payton or whoever was guarding MJ at the time. Jordan usually made the right plays in terms of moving the ball, but...

3) The entire Bulls team shot like GARBAGE the entire series, so they couldn't make Seattle pay for focusing on Jordan or create spacing for him. Jordan's 2nd-4th options shot horribly (Pippen 34%, Kukoc 42%, Harper 38%, Kerr 30%), and this was despite the fact that they were scoring FAR less volume than Jordan and seeing far less defensive attention.

The first point is the largest factor imo. It was inexplicable to watch Jordan miss all these "gimme's" throughout the game. Perplexing.

Why wasnt he missing those shots in the first 3 games? Jordan was actually playing really well until Payton switched on to him.

No true superstar can get locked down, let alone Michael Jordan but it was clear to anyone that watched the games that Payton clearly give mj trouble.

[poeman]

That Sonics team damn was sooo good

[TheToothFairy]

No, MJ was never locked down

[Tolverines]

I think it would be awesome to see a defender good enough to lock down a player the caliber of Jordan. Actually lock down, not just slow down. But you don't get paid much for that, so there isn't much incentive to get better than Thabo, Battier, Tony Allen level. Now those guys are great, but I'd love to dominant perimeter defenders. Pippen came close to being that guy, but we've never seen anyone do that. Maybe it's impossible with the way the game is played and governed now.

[heatwillbeback]

False

Payton is one of the best defenders ever. I think he would make Jordan take tough shots, but with the size advantage, a player of Jordans caliber would kill him with mid range jump shots.

[VTi]

After going up 3-0 David Stern asked Jordan to loose 1-2 games to avoid a sweep. Not good for the league and the TV ratings.

[niQ]

Payton did a good job of slowing him down...but at the end of the day.. MJ still came out on top.

[BJGOAT3]

Completely false. A couple of points:

1) Jordan was completely off in the '96 Finals for whatever reason. Those suggesting it was Payton's defense need to explain why Jordan was missing WIDE OPEN layups, offensive putbacks, and baseline 16-footers all series long - hell, he even hit the side of the backboard on a baseline jumper attempt one game! And it wasn't fatigue, either - he was bricking these shots early in games as often as he did it late in games. It was just...odd. As someone who has watched hundreds of MJ games, this simply never happened to the degree it did in the '96 Finals. Had Jordan simply made the open shots he usually makes, we'd be looking at him shooting 45-47% for the series instead of 42%. Fact. All anyone has to do to confirm what I'm saying is to watch the series.

2) Speaking of the defense which was played on Jordan, the Sonics hounded MJ with multiple players at all times and swarmed him from various spots on the floor to get the ball out of his hands. So it was a team effort, not just Payton or whoever was guarding MJ at the time. Jordan usually made the right plays in terms of moving the ball, but...

3) The entire Bulls team shot like GARBAGE the entire series, so they couldn't make Seattle pay for focusing on Jordan or create spacing for him. Jordan's 2nd-4th options shot horribly (Pippen 34%, Kukoc 42%, Harper 38%, Kerr 30%), and this was despite the fact that they were scoring FAR less volume than Jordan and seeing far less defensive attention.

The first point is the largest factor imo. It was inexplicable to watch Jordan miss all these "gimme's" throughout the game. Perplexing.

A lot of excuses there. Even though it shouldn't be solely credited to Payton, the Sonics defense apparently exhausted MJ to the point that he missed the easy shots that you've pointed out. I think it is pretty natural that Payton was able to stop MJ due that the two teams didn't play each other a lot and Payton's defense might have been unusual for MJ to play against and since it was only for three games straight it is understandable that he couldn't adjust his game fully. I don't think MJ shot the ball badly in Game 5 though, which makes it only two games out of three and it is a pretty small sample size. What is more interesting is that Payton was playing a far worse series in the first 3 games of the series offensively and after he switches to Jordan on defense, Payton's offensive numbers get better as well. I think Payton's will and increased total energy and effort on both sides of the court might have exhausted MJ to the point that he wasn't able to attain his usual dominance.