T or F: Gary Payton could lock down Michael Jordan.

[Chri2Kng]

Jordan never faced Bruce Bowen.

[JordansBulls]

Bulls and everyone played as if the series was over and the top 3 scoring options after MJ shot terribly as well.

[sportjames23]

Jordan never faced Bruce Bowen.

Actually, he did. Bowen played for the Heat during MJ's last years with the Bulls.

[Frank Mulely]

Stats don't lie but its really weird because my memory of that finals was PAYTON being exposed by JORDAN.

[lorak]

If you're getting tired out by somebody hounding you relentlessly, or you're wondering where they are when you catch the ball, you can certainly miss gimme shots that would be seen as open.

That being said though...it's quite fishy that you claim that Jordan just happened to be off for no reason that series when he actually had quite normal stats for that time period pre-Payton and even dropped and his free throw percentage was perfectly normal. He even had 36 points on 47% shooting the game before Payton picked him up.

Very good points EGarrett.

[Jordan23Forever]

Why wasnt he missing those shots in the first 3 games? Jordan was actually playing really well until Payton switched on to him.

No true superstar can get locked down, let alone Michael Jordan but it was clear to anyone that watched the games that Payton clearly give mj trouble.

I don't think it was clear at all, actually. I've watched the series multiple times. Payton did play great defense, and did make some nice individual defensive plays/stands against Jordan, but at the end of the day, when I see a guy miss WIDE OPEN shots as frequently as MJ did that series, the credit doesn't go to the defense. And as I noted, this happened early in games too, so fatigue wasn't a factor. As for why it didn't happen earlier in the series, who knows - perhaps being on the verge of completing something he had worked so hard for, that he wanted to accomplish both for himself and for his father who had died, gave him a slight case of the jitters, made him too anxious to get it done. I just know what I saw. I'm not saying he would have shot 53% if he wasn't off, more like 45-47%.

[LLJ]

I have this series on tape.

Payton was on Jordan like glue. Everywhere he moved, Payton put a body on him. And because Payton had a defensive rep that year, the refs let him get away with a lot of iffy hand checks. Payton was also strong enough to push Jordan out of his sweet spots on the block so that he was posting up a little father than he liked. When he was missing open shots, they usually felt out of rhythm to me.

Would Jordan have figured him out later on? Probably. But he certainly wasn't adjusting as quickly to Payton's defence as he does with other defenders. Jordan was even called for the "arm sweep" offensive foul a couple of times while driving on the Sonics D because he often had trouble getting by his man at times because they were allowed to be so physical with him.

[Mamba Venom]

I have a theory.

The only kryptonite that could lock down Michael Jordan was Scottie Pippen (the best defender of the 90s even though the media was paying more attention to Mutumbo's finger wagging - shot out RedSpice.)

Pippen was equipped with more tools to stop MJ than any other player in the era and posible all time.

[Turisas]

Think MJ himself said the guy who did the best job on him was Alvin Robertson.

[Darain]

Think MJ himself said the guy who did the best job on him was Alvin Robertson.

http://bkref.com/tiny/hX6Q5

35 ppg 53%

[Uncle Mxy]

I have a theory.

The only kryptonite that could lock down Michael Jordan was Scottie Pippen (the best defender of the 90s even though the media was paying more attention to Mutumbo's finger wagging - shot out RedSpice.)

Pippen was equipped with more tools to stop MJ than any other player in the era and posible all time.

Pippen would have a migraine. Rodman wouldn't.

[Edrees]

Payton could guard him well enough 1 on 1 enough to win a 7 game series, I do believe that. Stop him? No

Why wasnt he missing those shots in the first 3 games? Jordan was actually playing really well until Payton switched on to him.

No true superstar can get locked down, let alone Michael Jordan but it was clear to anyone that watched the games that Payton clearly give mj trouble.

I don't think it was clear at all, actually. I've watched the series multiple times. Payton did play great defense, and did make some nice individual defensive plays/stands against Jordan, but at the end of the day, when I see a guy miss WIDE OPEN shots as frequently as MJ did that series, the credit doesn't go to the defense. And as I noted, this happened early in games too, so fatigue wasn't a factor. As for why it didn't happen earlier in the series, who knows - perhaps being on the verge of completing something he had worked so hard for, that he wanted to accomplish both for himself and for his father who had died, gave him a slight case of the jitters, made him too anxious to get it done. I just know what I saw. I'm not saying he would have shot 53% if he wasn't off, more like 45-47%.

Personally I believe when a great player is missing wide open shots, it means the defense has gotten him out of rhythym and into his head. Great players don't miss shots when you play bad D and let them get into their comfort zone. It's true that great players can overcome great defense and make those shots anyway, but IMO if somoene like MJ is missing open shots, you gotta credit the overall effect of the defense, you can't attest it to bad luck, it's too much of a coincidence for someone as great as him to just suddenly play that way for more than one game. I know it's not the best argument, but I generally feel this way about the question "is it good D or bad O?"

I know that when I play basketball and people guard me well, even when I get open I'm not as comfortable as I would be had I not been guarded as well on other plays. You kind of have to think extra hard rather than just play in rhythm. I would say Payton could at least get MJ to lose his momentum once in awhile and that's why MJ would miss the open shots he got. If Payton never played the good D to make MJ lose his momentum maybe those open shots would have went in.

[KyletheDingbat]

Gotta give Payton credit. He played fiercely. Too little too late though. If Payton had stayed on him all series, I think by game 4 MJ would be torching him. Similar thing happened against the Knicks in the early 90's, with people crediting Starks for locking him up all series, then he came out and hung 55 on them. I don't think the Bulls would lose that series any which way. But Payton did make him think.

[Frank Mulely]

^ Starks not in the same class as Payton. Payton was one of the best defenders EVER.

Honestly if Payton was the same height as Jordan with the same athleticism as his actual height, he'd have given Mike real problems.

[old rem]

no

[Apollo64]

Yeah, he did slow him down. Payton was a master of playing an annoyingly close defense without picking up many fouls, thus his nickname "The Glove". But the series wasn't really a contest.

[nolunch]

After going up 3-0 David Stern asked Jordan to loose 1-2 games to avoid a sweep. Not good for the league and the TV ratings.

No, Stern should ask all other Bulls don't play any defense and let Sonic scoring 120 per game. And then ask MJ on fire to score 50 per game. The TV ratings must be much higher. But the fact is MJ sucked in front of Gary Payton and played like Pippen in the offensive end.

[JordansBulls]

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/ask-sam-s ... 21012.html

I like to read about NBA history and players, and this week subject was Gary Payton. Reading about the 1996 Finals, I found this: "Midway through the 1996 NBA Finals, Seattle coach George Karl made the decision to assign Payton to play defense as a shooting guard instead of his normal point guard assignment in order to defend Jordan. Payton held Jordan and the Bulls to their lowest offensive output in an NBA finals and frustrated the best player in the game. In his first three NBA Finals, Jordan averaged 36.3 points per game and had scored at least 30 points in 14 of his 17 games. However, in the 1996 Finals, Jordan averaged 27.3 points per game and scored more than 30 points in only 1 of the 6 games. The Sonics won that game by 21 points and Payton held Jordan to 26 points – Jordan's second-lowest-scoring Finals game in his career up to that point. In game 6, which the Bulls would win to capture the Championship, Payton played 47 minutes and Jordan missed 14 of his 19 shots, getting a career Finals low 22 points. By the end of the series, Michael Jordan had been held under 30 points in 5 of the 6 games, including his three lowest-scoring Finals games up to that point."

Did Payton really guard Jordan that well? Who was best the player to ever guard Jordan in your opinion? I heard Starks was a tough matchup for him, but the numbers Payton achieved are defintely a statement.


Sam: That Finals was interesting because the story was Payton was afraid to defend Jordan. Payton was Defensive Player of the Year that season, but for the first three games the Supersonics didn’t have him guard Jordan. The Bulls went ahead 3-0 and after a 72-10 season and three days between Games 3 and 4, the story for national media was to celebrate the Bulls and declare them the best team ever. The Bulls got caught up in that and took their foot off the gas and got caught by an aggressive Seattle team. Seattle also gave Payton some help and they won two games. But the Bulls went back home and won Game 6 and the title. Payton was a good defender, though never a real, bother to Jordan. Jordan always said Joe Dumars bothered him. Sometimes Vernon Maxwell did, though that was because many felt Maxwell might pull out a pistol some time and do something crazy. There really was no one defender who truly gave Jordan problems. His toughest opponent may have been the Oakland arena, where he broke his foot in 1985 and was tentative there for several years afterward.

[MrBigShot]

I think Michael Jordan is the only person who can lock himself down, as strange as that sounds. When he gets into that zone mentally, he's just too good...

[rsavaj]

Payton's D has apparently reached mythical levels